The irony of whining about "whiners" & what it reveals

n.c. · November 11, 2001, 12:46

At first I was frustrated about the insults and being told to shut up. But when I realized the amusingly ironic nature of the whiners, I decided to have fun with them.

Now I have a theory of why they are so upset. The stated reasons don't hold water (too many threads or Victor's hilarous "bandwidth" comment). Let me explain what is probably the real reason.

When I hear a negative movie review before seeing the movie it often shapes the experience; problems I would not have noticed stand out. The Firaxis fundies must be having a similar experience: when they come to these threads their eyes are opened to the game's many failings.

The problem is that they have a lot invested in Civ III being the ultimate experience. Our bubble-bursting is painful, since they now are aware of flaws they did not see before. Perhaps another analogy is the child learning about Santa Claus.

Now I am fully aware that there are many informed, intelligent mature people who love the game. I am very happy for them. This thread is about another group- the people who are inexplicably angry at those of us who make critiques. Inexplicable, that is, until perhaps now.

d_dudy · November 11, 2001, 12:56

this is a good point, imho

squid · November 11, 2001, 13:10

I don't mind people who find bugs and submit them to Firaxis and post them here. I like that.

I dislike it when people stay around here (trolls!) and complain all the time, insisting that everyone who likes the game and does not see it as seriously flawed is somehow stupid or thereby bribed by Firaxians.

That being said, I really do like Civ3, and the bugs will be corrected. I do not see any major gameplay or process flaws, and if people don't like these aspects -- well -- what are they going to do about it? This may not be the game for them. However, the insistance that everyone must be unhappy is equally absurd as saying everyone must likewise be happy.

Anyhow, I will leave you with Murphy's law of software development lifecycles: there will always have to be a patch.

Relax.

GodSpawn · November 11, 2001, 16:54

That's not half as ironic as whining about people whining about whiners...

Green Giant · November 11, 2001, 17:01

Quote:

Originally posted by GodSpawn
That's not half as ironic as whining about people whining about whiners...

LMAO

Oh so funny, yet oh so true.

n.c. · November 11, 2001, 17:15

Quote:

Originally posted by GodSpawn
That's not half as ironic as whining about people whining about whiners...

That would be- have you found any examples?

GodSpawn · November 11, 2001, 17:16

Well...

n.c. · November 11, 2001, 17:18

Perhaps I need to explain my point agin . . . .

Grandpa Troll · November 11, 2001, 17:18

Quote:

Originally posted by n.c.
At first I was frustrated about the insults and being told to shut up. But when I realized the amusingly ironic nature of the whiners, I decided to have fun with them.

Now I have a theory of why they are so upset. The stated reasons don't hold water (too many threads or Victor's hilarous "bandwidth" comment). Let me explain what is probably the real reason.

When I hear a negative movie review before seeing the movie it often shapes the experience; problems I would not have noticed stand out. The Firaxis fundies must be having a similar experience: when they come to these threads their eyes are opened to the game's many failings.

The problem is that they have a lot invested in Civ III being the ultimate experience. Our bubble-bursting is painful, since they now are aware of flaws they did not see before. Perhaps another analogy is the child learning about Santa Claus.

Now I am fully aware that there are many informed, intelligent mature people who love the game. I am very happy for them. This thread is about another group- the people who are inexplicably angry at those of us who make critiques. Inexplicable, that is, until perhaps now.

What about Santa Claus

I am in Total agreement with you NC, not just because I am over in Onslow County..

but because in business, you H-A-V-E 2 H-A-V-E Thick skin, and part of growth is pain, plain truth pain!

CIV III is a great game, but still room for improvements,

As for whiners, often people "Express" in a way that vents to the extent of whining, much like the new Toby Keith song, SOMETIMES..I wanna talk about me..funny how people want to view their own viewpoints as pertinent or important, believe in them staunchly, but when someone come sthrough OVERBEARINGLY, they become chastised, thus the CHASTISEEE now becomes a whiner himself...

Ya'll have a great day!!

Yours in Civin

Troll

Libertarian · November 11, 2001, 17:19

You nailed it, squid. We all know there are some problems with the game. And we all know the difference between reporting a problem and holding your breath until you turn blue.

Imran Siddiqui · November 11, 2001, 17:46

Whining about the whining of the whiners perhaps reveals that that some people just can't come to the realization that some people actually love the game.

Admiral PJ · November 11, 2001, 18:07

I love whiners.. actually no i don't, no one likes whiners so just stop it !

DaddyCool · November 11, 2001, 18:08

How about whining about whiners who whine about whiners of whiners of the game? This is...umm...starting to get philosophical, or stupid....one of the two anyway.

Zylka · November 11, 2001, 18:09

Perhaps Imran should learn to post something more insightfull and original than that trite snoozing emotican and a one line quip.

We're not whining here, I'd describe it more along the lines of patronizing, pointing and laughing, making idiots of others, etc. etc. We're not asking anyone to shut up and leave. We're voicing our complaints, which are relevant, truthfull, and quite obviously hurtfull. I love the analogy of Santa Claus, my man

Oh hey, Imran. Do I need one of these?

Pembleton · November 11, 2001, 18:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Admiral PJ
I love whiners.. actually no i don't, no one likes whiners so just stop it !

Stop whining!

Zylka · November 11, 2001, 18:11

P.S. Anyone who complains about civ3 just bores me so much

Cuz I like dem game and haff no time to hhear criticism GO AWAY WE WERE HEA R FIRST dar dar.

n.c. · November 11, 2001, 18:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Troll
I am in Total agreement with you NC

Why thank you!

Quote:

Originally posted by Zylka
I love the analogy of Santa Claus, my man

I'm happy to oblige!

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
some people just can't come to the realization that some people actually love the game.

I wonder who those people are. As I said in my last paragraph (which I'm sure you read) I am happy for those who are satisfied with this effort. Heck, I really wish I was as well. Far more fun that way.

GodSpawn · November 11, 2001, 18:33

[Stack overflow]

zapperio · November 11, 2001, 18:39

I don't think the emperor from nc is wearing any clothes. But then, I'm young.

Zap

splangy · November 11, 2001, 18:50

I like civ3. Many others do. Many dont. Just like religions we are gona clash, acomplish nothing, clash even harder, acomplish nothing-loop. Its gona happen and threads like this are proof of that...

n.c. · November 11, 2001, 18:51

zapperio- Anything substantive to add to that attempt at cuteness?

zapperio · November 11, 2001, 19:06

Nah.
Attempting to be cute has always been enough for me.
Wish you could say the same.

Zap

TCO · November 11, 2001, 22:37

Imran,

stop whining about N.C's whining about whining about whiners.

(And I claim "infinity +1" levels about whining about whining...so don't try to top me...)

LaRusso · November 12, 2001, 03:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Whining about the whining of the whiners perhaps reveals that that some people just can't come to the realization that some people actually love the game.

n.c. = troll

Robert Plomp · November 12, 2001, 04:32

It's not that I can't stand critics that are right.
It's more that people are complaining about game features that rock.

I have so much fun with the resource concept.
It really rocks the game if you understand it, and if you're a good diplomat with the AI. Then it REALLY sucks when you find many threads overhere with people 'demanding' Firaxis to change the resource concept.

Same with culture and combat.
Complain about the interception and the coastal fortress stuff.
Those are bugs ! Complain about the animated enemy moves you can only skip by pressing 'shift' all the time. (civ3-hand after 1 year)

complain about missing mp and scenario tools (I think it 's a pitty, but has nothing to do with the game itself)
But leave the great new concepts alone !
They rock !

CyberShy

Dev · November 12, 2001, 04:55

Quote:

I have so much fun with the resource concept.
It really rocks the game if you understand it, and if you're a good diplomat with the AI. Then it REALLY sucks when you find many threads overhere with people 'demanding' Firaxis to change the resource concept.

What makes YOUR cake doesn't necesarilly make mine if you know what I mean.

Most of the issues people complain about could have been avoided if Firaxis had made the game more customizable i.e. sliders for resources and corruption level etc.

Personally I hate corruption because it completely kills my _preferred_ playing style and I will whine about it untill F comes up with a solution if I so please.

/dev

LaRusso · November 12, 2001, 04:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Dev
Personally I hate corruption because it completely kills my _preferred_ playing style

ICS?

Earthling7 · November 12, 2001, 04:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Dev
Personally I hate corruption because it completely kills my _preferred_ playing style and I will whine about it untill F comes up with a solution if I so please.

And what is your "preferred" playing style? Civ2? It's available in the shops, get it.

Resources and Culture are great additions to Civ. The problem I see is how rushed it was.

Dev · November 12, 2001, 05:04

I don't want to do away with corruption but simply make it customizable so what's your ****ing beef ?

FIRAXIS PLEASE DONT CHANGE IT SO THAT EVERYONE CAN ENJOY THE GAME....

Buy a friggin clue.

/dev

Robert Plomp · November 12, 2001, 05:05

THAT's the point.
people already had ideas on how they will play civ3.

The resource system works great if you understand it.
Sometimes you need to start a war to get a resource, sometimes you wno't have all resources. Of courste that's a pain, but what do you want ? A game that's easy and just does what you want.

That's like playing Quake and requesting all enemies to tab you on the shoulder like "Hey, I'm behind you" so you have time to turn around and kill them