Random seed saved - good or bad?

Solmyr · November 13, 2001, 04:12

It has been said that the game saves the random generator seed with the save file, so reloading won't change combat results and the like. I'm questioning whether this is a good thing. For one thing, it makes the game artificial and predictable. It does not help "game balance" as far as I can see (of course, I feel that many people pursue the concept of "game balance" too fervently, but that's another story). The only thing it does is help against the "reload cheat", but really, what's the big deal about that? You won't be able to reload in multiplayer, and nobody should care if you reload in a single-player game.

So what I'm saying is, ditch the random seed saving in the next patch. It adds nothing to the game.

Badtz Maru · November 13, 2001, 04:19

The only reason I can see to be against it saving the random seed is if you like to save and fight the exact same battle over and over until you get a result you like, which is clearly an exploit. The game is still random, if you do the attack even a little differently after reloading you will get a different result.

Chowlett · November 13, 2001, 13:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Solmyr
It adds nothing to the game.

True, but what does it take away? It's still to all itnents and purposes random, it's just that that randomness is now invariant under reloads. Assuming you were to play a game straight through with no stopping, you would see no difference than if you did the same with Civ2

Mister Hand · November 13, 2001, 13:51

It also helps if you crash mid-turn for some reason. You just reload the auto-save and play your turn the exact same way...without worrying that this time you are going to lose the battle or whatever. Very good feature, and I'm glad they implemented it.

Yohan · November 13, 2001, 14:53

I like it. It eliminates the failed-attack-reload-retry cheat.

Bolleck70 · November 13, 2001, 15:01

Let me play the single player Game the way i like!
I like to save and reload. Why stop me?

Wexu · November 13, 2001, 16:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Bolleck70
Let me play the single player Game the way i like!
I like to save and reload. Why stop me?

I bet you miss the cheat menu too?

Purple · November 13, 2001, 17:21

Personally I like this feature. I went through a save-move-reload phase with SMAC/X but abandoned it as a time-waster, especially trying to get a specific pod goody.

However, I don't see anything wrong with offering cheat-type options. Some are very useful for examining certain aspects of a game.

As to the original question I would like to report that goody village outcomes are not fixed if you go back enough turns. I learned this in one of my first Civ3 games when I replayed a few turns several times to observe AI behavior (I was checking to see whether the AI overlooked villages). The first time I entered the village early on, and found a settler. On a replay I delayed entering the village for a couple of turns, and when I did, the village was deserted!

I don't know whether this behavior is governed by the same replay rules as battles.

Malkuth · November 13, 2001, 17:26

Even though I never did this Reload thing, why stop people from playing the game the way they like? Maybe Devs should of worried more about Bugs and stuff (Intercept for instance Totally broke) other then how people play the games by themselves.

shclo · November 13, 2001, 17:33

I wonder if the random seed (or a random seed) could be set at the beginning of the game and remain constant throughout (regardless of what actions you take). My first (and last) Prince-level game made me think something had been set such that I couldn't win a single battle.

I'm all for the weaker army winning once in a while, but something's wrong when a regular warrior (1 attack, 1 defend, 3 hit) beats an army of 3 veteran spearmen (3 attack, 6 defend, 12 hit points), but I can't defend a city of 6 with a veteran archer against a regular archer, plus I can't take a city of 1 (no walls) guarded by a regular warrior with my veteran archer and my veteran spearman. Any one of these could happen, but I'm saying I couldn't win a single battle in my first Prince level game no matter how much the odds should have been stacked in my favor. Could there be some sort of random seed that is set at the beginning of the game that remains constant throughout the game that could screw you over? Could it be

(heaven forbid) a bug that doesn't show up in every game? Or is it just that I'm the unluckiest guy in the world?

GodSpawn · November 13, 2001, 18:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Bolleck70
Let me play the single player Game the way i like!
I like to save and reload. Why stop me?

Because you are weak, and it's for your own good.

Solmyr · November 14, 2001, 05:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Yohan
I like it. It eliminates the failed-attack-reload-retry cheat.

Again, what do you care if someone cheats in their single-player game? It's not something you should be concerned about at all.

LaRusso · November 14, 2001, 05:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Solmyr

Again, what do you care if someone cheats in their single-player game? It's not something you should be concerned about at all.

well why do you care if firaxis decides not to put such an option in?

Pyrodrew · November 14, 2001, 05:46

Friaxis should spend their time fixing bugs, improving the AI, delivering what they promised, & providing more gameplay options (not cheat options) for the game... not waste their time making a "failed-attack-reload-retry cheat". If you want to cheat - use the editor.

Badtz Maru · November 14, 2001, 06:00

You can hardly call it a waste of time, as having it generate and save the random seed at the beginning of the game can't be any more difficult to code than generating a new random seed every time you load a game. It's probably easier.

As mentioned above, it adds to the game in that you can expect the same strategy to have the same outcome it did before if you have to reload for some reason. It would suck to take a toughly defended city and then have the game crash, reload, and not be able to duplicate your prior victory even though you did things exactly the same.

Pyrodrew · November 14, 2001, 06:07

Badtz Maru - If you were replying to me then you obviously misread what I wrote.