Expansion Pack Civ: Canada

[Method]

Originally posted by Puritan
Inuvik 3,296

Why Inuvik and not say for example, Kingston or Windsor or something?

[Aqualung]

Great Leaders:

Alex Trebek
Geddy Lee
Dave Foley
Bob McKenzie
Doug McKenzie

[Drake Tungsten]

Don't forget about Bryan Adams...

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by TKG


Why Inuvik and not say for example, Kingston or Windsor or something?

mmm coz we're politically correct.

[Honour_Shogun]

Originally posted by Aqualung
Great Leaders:

Alex Trebek
Geddy Lee
Dave Foley
Bob McKenzie
Doug McKenzie

Aye, and make the Mackenzie Brothers as the Co-Leaders of the Country. Every City has a Beer StoreTM in them. And, due to the excessive amounts of alcohol and hockey watched in the cities, make revolts less likely eh?

BTW, for UU, I cannot believe people missed the obvious. Hockey Player!!!

Make it a very much improved swordsmen(well, i can't see firing a hockey stick, or could I?I wonder... ) with the ability to drive itself into a frenzied foam, due to excessive hits from behind, and aggravation at dives from other players

[muppet]

NO! NO! NO!
No Avro Arrow
No Peace Keeper
No Mountie

HOCKEY PLAYER!! Excellent Idea Honour Shogun!! or better yet,
LACROSSE PLAYER! (sp?)

It would be really funny. No?

[Admiral Stukov]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
We kicked your ass in 1812

Just a little history lesson...

Most Canadian nationalists believe they won the war of 1812 (they, as in, taking themselves in place of the British.. the TRUE foes of the Americans in the war) because they set fire the the White House. Despite torching a few fine drapes, the damage was null. Also, one year prior, the Americans had set fire to the city of York (Toronto) and caused MUCH more damage.

The Americans suffered extreme casualties in Canada.
The "Canadians" suffered extreme casualties in America.

Not taking in account some of the miraculous sea victories by the Americans on the Great Lakes and such (Over 800 "Canadian" ships were captured by privateering, and don't forget famous American ships like Old Ironsides...), the most major victory in the entire war actually happened a few weeks after peace was signed...

The Battle of New Orleans. "Canadian" forces landed in New Orleans and suffered EXTREME casualties. A total of 300 "Canadians" died, with 1200 wounded... many of them would die later. Approximately 12 Americans were killed, 53 wounded.

See Black Hawk Down? The Somalis faired better... and they were FAR behind on the technological scale with the exception of stingers.


The end result of the war was a stalemate... neither side forfilled its objectives entirely. America had captured York, but it did not hold the city. "Canada" had captured Washington DC, but it marched toward Baltimore where it was less successful in its vandalism. Since the Napoleotic Wars had ended, Impressment was no longer and issue. The only thing that was gained in the war was that the Americans gained territory to SHARE with "Canada".

Gee... alot of Canadian nationalists are going to want to change the claims to "British" now, huh?




Ok, back on topic... if you ask me, Canada is a possible Civilization choice.... but not before the SUPERPOWERS of ANY AGE are put in that haven't already. This includes Vikings, Spanish, Turks, and such. Even Mexico has had more of a historical impact.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Admiral Stukov
Just a little history lesson...

Most Canadian nationalists believe they won the war of 1812 (they, as in, taking themselves in place of the British.. the TRUE foes of the Americans in the war) because they set fire the the White House. Despite torching a few fine drapes, the damage was null. Also, one year prior, the Americans had set fire to the city of York (Toronto) and caused MUCH more damage.

Actually, the damage was quite significant. As a result of the fire, the Americans repainted the building to cover up the damage, and the paint colour they chose was white. Hence the name, white house.

Yes, the Yanks did indeed burn down York. They also burned down homes along the Niagara Peninsula during the dead of winter leaving hundreds of civilians without shelter. Many of those civilians eventually died of exposure.

Speaking of victories, in the Battle of Queenston Heights, an outnumbered British/Canadian/Indian force drove off the Americans and captured about 1,000 US troops and killed or wounded more than 300. British/Canadian/Indian losses were 14 killed, 77 wounded and 21 missing.

Then there was the battle of Chrysler's Farm when 1,200 Canadians/Brits/Indians drove off 4,000 Americans.

In fact, throughout the War of 1812, the outnumbered British/Canadian/Indian forces routinely drove off larger American armies.

[TacticalGrace]

KH= KrazyHorse

KH>Canada covers ~10 million km^2 (2nd largest country in the world)
Mostly unoccupied space though

KH>Canada is far more distinct from Britain than Australia is
But Australia is more distinct from the US than Canada is...

KH>Canada had the 3rd largest navy in the world by 1945
by 1945... you mean after Germany's navy had been run down by 6 years of war, the US had smashed the once huge japanese fleet in the pacific, the Royal Navy had (with almost no losses) destroyed the once feared Italian fleet in the Med, and the Franch fleet had been mostly sunk by the Royal Navy after the french/german armistace? I think by default the Canadian navy was the only one left after the US and Brtitish...

KH>Canadian troops were the most feared force on the WWI battlefields
...say all the canadians. the ANZACs were the bravest and the BEF was the best trained.

KH>Canada is one of the few countries in the world that manages to operate bilingually on almost all levels
South Africa (Afrikaans is the official language of government, English the official language for all schooling etc)
Ever been to the Netherlands? Seems like everyone speaks perfect english.

KH>Canada invented socialised health care
KH>Canada invented peacekeeping
Great. Next you are going to tell me that the inventor of the telephone was canadian.

KH>Canada was the first former British colony to peacefully make its way to independence, and provided an example to the rest of what was to become the British Commonwealth
Unfortunately the fact that it was a British colony at all damages the case for Canada as a separate civ

KH>We kicked your ass in 1812
That will be the generic american "your" I take it

[PMGretzky]

Originally posted by TacticalGrace

KH>Canada was the first former British colony to peacefully make its way to independence, and provided an example to the rest of what was to become the British Commonwealth
Unfortunately the fact that it was a British colony at all damages the case for Canada as a separate civ

Sorry to imform you but the U.S. was also formerly a British colony and they are a separate civ. The only difference is that Canada gained it's sovereignty peacefully rather than through a revolution.

This whole debate is ridiculous, the bottom line is that anyone who wants their country as a civ should get it...it's a game for F*ck's sake!

If Firaxis adds new Civ in an expansion pack they will do so based on sales levels in different countries. Obviously you will release a Canadian civ if your Canadian sales are high...and Australian and Italian etc....otherwise why would anyone buy it?

Bottom line Canada is a huge supporter of Civ games and should get a civ of it's own based on that fact, not some stupid debate between Canadians and Australians over who's civ is more worthy.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Puritan
Head of Government: Pierre Elliot Trudeau

Regardless of your political stripe, I would argue that Trudeau is the most famous political leader Canada has ever produced.

What about John A.? Or how about Wilfred Laurier?

Originally posted by Puritan
Military Leaders:
General Sir Julian Byng (Vimy Ridge)
General Arthur Currie (Passchendaele)
Lieutenant E.L.M. Burns (Passchendaele)
General Harry Crear (Normandy)

Should we include pre-Confederation military leaders, such as Wolfe, Montcalm, and Brock?

[Admiral Stukov]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Actually, the damage was quite significant. As a result of the fire, the Americans repainted the building to cover up the damage, and the paint colour they chose was white. Hence the name, white house.

President's House after the fire (Library of Congress)

Yes, the Yanks did indeed burn down York. They also burned down homes along the Niagara Peninsula during the dead of winter leaving hundreds of civilians without shelter. Many of those civilians eventually died of exposure.

Reminds me of the whole cause of the war... Impressment. Cruelty toward US civilian sailors. Not to mention that British-Canadians would also set fire to American towns throughout the East Coast. Youre choosing the wrong time period to start that "war atrocity" crap.

Speaking of victories, in the Battle of Queenston Heights, an outnumbered British/Canadian/Indian force drove off the Americans and captured about 1,000 US troops and killed or wounded more than 300. British/Canadian/Indian losses were 14 killed, 77 wounded and 21 missing.

Not only was General Hull a coward... but still doesn't match up to the offensive on New Orleans. Not to mention that the next invasion of Canada, the British/Canadians would not be so lucky, and would also lose a very good leader in Battle.

Then there was the battle of Chrysler's Farm when 1,200 Canadians/Brits/Indians drove off 4,000 Americans.

And an outnumbered America force raped the British/Canadians at the Battle of Chippawa.

In fact, throughout the War of 1812, the outnumbered British/Canadian/Indian forces routinely drove off larger American armies.

Ahhh, you might want to check up on your history there. As a matter of fact, up until the death of Tecumseh, the British would commonly outnumber American forces with assistance from the braves.

The successful defense of the siege of Baltimore, the massive privateering counterattack on the British blockade costing the British more than 825 vessels in just a few months, Fort George, the Great Lake victories which literally nullified the British offensives, and the miraculous naval victories in the Great Lakes all attribute to the American success in the war.

The war was really just a stalemate... but for the Canadians to say they "won" the war is Ludacris. The war is just a boring act of history which Canadians try to scrape up as a "Victory over the evil Americans which had helped us gain independence in the first place" to cover up their long, sad military history. This is why its glossed over in British history books, and seen only as a moral booster (2nd War of Independence) in American books.

[Method]

Originally posted by PMGretzky
Sorry to imform you but the U.S. was also formerly a British colony and they are a separate civ

thats because the game was made (mostly i would assume) by americans who want to see their "civ" in the game.

BTW ranskaldan i didn't mean kingston in place of inuvic i meant in addition to the other places. its just that kingston's a pretty important place i think.

might i add i didn't expect a thread about someone wanting canada in the game to turn into an argument about who beat who in 1812

[godinex]

be serius....

[Willem]

Originally posted by Jason
A logical UU might be the much touted Avro Arrow, Jet fighter with one of the stats bumped up a touch.

With a special ability that it gets dismantled just before it's finished construction.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
Not again those puny canadians!
You've already ennervated everyone here on the Forum when we still thought we had some influence on the In-Game Civs.
Live with it: Canadians live in the woods. If you want to, add Canada in your individual game or make an own "Canada-mod"!
We made a poll about which Civs to include and Canada was FAR from being a popular choice! Austria almost came in, yet I don't go around demanding it SHOULD be in. I'll simply add it for myself if I wish too.

For God's sakes, he's not saying we have to be in the game, he's just giving some ideas if any Canadian wants to create a Canada civ. What is the problem with that?

[Willem]

Originally posted by TKG


oh! thats right! thats why we're all using COMPUTERS!

Yeah, and it's a real ***** when my igloo starts melting and shorts out all the wires.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Don't forget about Bryan Adams...

Hey, what about Celine dion? No please, don't hit me.

[Willem]

Originally posted by TacticalGrace

Great. Next you are going to tell me that the inventor of the telephone was canadian.

As a matter of fact... It's common knowledge that the telephone was invented by Alexander Graham Bell, in Brantford, Ont.

[John Biles]

To try to take the original idea seriously, I'd probably say the two best qualities would be Industrious and Expansionist, and that the best unique unit would be something along the line of Fur Traders, which would be a worker with improved movement (since Fur Traders typically covered huge distances), probably made available when Economics is invented.

[Willem]

Originally posted by John Biles
To try to take the original idea seriously, I'd probably say the two best qualities would be Industrious and Expansionist, and that the best unique unit would be something along the line of Fur Traders, which would be a worker with improved movement (since Fur Traders typically covered huge distances), probably made available when Economics is invented.

Voyageur would be a better name for it, and a Scout type would be more appropriate for that idea. They didn't stick around the city farming or mining, they were out in the bush exploring at the same time as they were working.

[Cairo_East]

Maybe I'm just new here, but why are there completely pointless arguments about the "rank worth" of a country and the "value" of having a civ? It's a friggin' mod! People can do whatever they want with it, and at the end of the day, who the f cares about what you think? As the saying goes: if you don't like the music, change the station!

So, enough of a rant, back to CivIII:

How about this setup that blends some historical chronology and relative population size?

Ottawa
Quebec City
Montreal
Toronto
Halifax
St. John
Fredericton
Charlottetown
Vancouver
Victoria
Winnipeg
Hamilton (or Windsor)
Edmonton
Saskatoon
Calgary
Regina
Whitehorse
Yellowknife
Iqualuit
Inuvik

What about Lester Pearson as the leader? Sure, he may have not been the best PM during his time, but his foreign policy made him one of the most well-known and respected leaders in the world after the Suez Crisis.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Cairo_East
Maybe I'm just new here, but why are there completely pointless arguments about the "rank worth" of a country and the "value" of having a civ? It's a friggin' mod! People can do whatever they want with it, and at the end of the day, who the f cares about what you think? As the saying goes: if you don't like the music, change the station!

So, enough of a rant, back to CivIII:

How about this setup that blends some historical chronology and relative population size?

Ottawa
Quebec City
Montreal
Toronto
Halifax
St. John
Fredericton
Charlottetown
Vancouver
Victoria
Winnipeg
Hamilton (or Windsor)
Edmonton
Saskatoon
Calgary
Regina
Whitehorse
Yellowknife
Iqualuit
Inuvik

What about Lester Pearson as the leader? Sure, he may have not been the best PM during his time, but his foreign policy made him one of the most well-known and respected leaders in the world after the Suez Crisis.

What about Kingston? That used to be the capital at one time. It was moved to Ottawa because of fears of an American invasion.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Admiral Stukov

Reminds me of the whole cause of the war...

the Americans thought they could just walk in and take over Canada cause Britian was too occupied with the war in Europe.

[Cairo_East]

Originally posted by Willem


What about Kingston? That used to be the capital at one time. It was moved to Ottawa because of fears of an American invasion.

Good call. I went up to Queen's Univ. in Kingston a few years bak, right after the HUGE winter storm seemingly knocked down every tree above two-storeys. Still beautiful. But it's position next to Lake Ontario and Watertown, New York would make it fairly vulnerable.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Cairo_East


Good call. I went up to Queen's Univ. in Kingston a few years bak, right after the HUGE winter storm seemingly knocked down every tree above two-storeys. Still beautiful. But it's position next to Lake Ontario and Watertown, New York would make it fairly vulnerable.

You might also want to consider London. Historically it played an important role in the development of SW Ontario. The fact that it is located at the fork of two river systems made it quite valuable in the early days, and it's still a major center for the area. Mind you, there might be some confusion with London, England though.

[Cairo_East]

What about Medicine Hat?

[Method]

Originally posted by Cairo_East
Ottawa
Quebec City
Montreal
Toronto
Halifax
St. John
Fredericton
Charlottetown
Vancouver
Victoria
Winnipeg
Hamilton (or Windsor)
Edmonton
Saskatoon
Calgary
Regina
Whitehorse
Yellowknife
Iqualuit
Inuvik

i might put kingston at the top (gasp) it being previously the capital. Kyoto is Japan's founding city, even though Tokyo is the capital today. at the time (or so i have heard...) ottawa was a small lumber town with few people but it was chosen over toronto or kingston because the french people didn't want the capital to be so far away from quebec.

my list might go

Kingston
Quebec
Montreal
York/Toronto
Halifax
Fredricton
Charlottetown
Saint John's
maybe Sydney
Ottawa (possibly higher)
Vancouver
Victoria
Winnipeg
London/Hamilton/St. Catherine's
Saskatoon
Regina
Calgary
Edmonton
Whitehorse
Yellowknife
Iqualuit
Inuvic

possibly with the addition (1 not all) of Sudbury, Timmins, Thunder Bay, Kapuskasing or something

after Winnipeg those can be in any order

[Cairo_East]

Originally posted by TKG


i might put kingston at the top (gasp) it being previously the capital. Kyoto is Japan's founding city, even though Tokyo is the capital today. at the time (or so i have heard...) ottawa was a small lumber town with few people but it was chosen over toronto or kingston because the french people didn't want the capital to be so far away from quebec.

I read somewhere that Queen Victoria was given a couple of pictures to look at and chose Ottawa because of its bucolic image of a small lumber town. Actually, I don't even think it was called Ottawa at that time.

Would it be too confusing to include St. John and St. John's? I think I would get confused if I was playing in the game about which city was which. I know I avoid the New Berlin, Berlin 2 city wrap by re-naming the city and avoiding confusion. If not, I'd put in St. John, due to the late inclusion of Newfoundland into Canada in 1949.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by TKG


i might put kingston at the top (gasp) it being previously the capital. Kyoto is Japan's founding city, even though Tokyo is the capital today. at the time (or so i have heard...) ottawa was a small lumber town with few people but it was chosen over toronto or kingston because the french people didn't want the capital to be so far away from quebec.

my list might go

Kingston
Quebec
Montreal
York/Toronto
Halifax
Fredricton
Charlottetown
Saint John's
maybe Sydney
Ottawa (possibly higher)
Vancouver
Victoria
Winnipeg
London/Hamilton/St. Catherine's
Saskatoon
Regina
Calgary
Edmonton
Whitehorse
Yellowknife
Iqualuit
Inuvic

possibly with the addition (1 not all) of Sudbury, Timmins, Thunder Bay, Kapuskasing or something

after Winnipeg those can be in any order

Sydney?????

Definitely Thunder Bay and Kapuskasing simply because they're cool names.