This just struck me...

David Floyd · November 18, 2001, 19:45

...the way modern diplomacy is set up in CivIII - that is, any diplomacy after Nationalism - the world looks pretty much like a pre-WW1 world of interlocking alliances where one brushfire can set off a worldwar. This is certainly very interesting, and I love the concept. I DO think, however, that maybe there oughta be some sort of game rule/concept that after 2 or 3 wars, in the industrial/modern era, involving every nation, a new wave of diplomatic options are brought in, making suck wars harder to get into...I dunno...maybe someone can flesh this idea out a little more? I would but I wanna go play CivIII

Venger · November 18, 2001, 19:54

I made the WWI comment in another thread discussing the inability to avoid war when you have a MPP. Not giving you a choice not only doesn't reflect realpolitik but drags you into wars you really have no interest in fighting. The solution is to not get into an MPP, but I'd like the option of opting out of a war I have ZERO national interest in fighting...

Venger

Simpleton · November 18, 2001, 20:05

So far in the games that I have played I've only made one alliance. This one actually worked to my advantage because I was allied with the Greeks and the Romans attacked me. I then asked the Greeks to help, which they did. I'm still playing this one out so no resolution yet....
From what you both have said I probably am lucky that MPP has not yet hurt me.

David Floyd · November 18, 2001, 20:43

It would be realistic to opt out of an MPP, similar to how Italy opted out of the Triple Alliance at the beginning of World War 1...however I do think that the concept in general should reflect the diplomatic realities during the Industrial Age on up through the first few world wars...maybe after two global wars involving every Civ on the map, MPPs should be replaced with simple alliances, or maybe their should be an option for the two most powerful powers to create opposing alliance groups, and every other Civ must either join one, or stay neutral with significant penalties...I dunno seems like an interesting concept, anyway.

Simpleton · November 18, 2001, 21:06

Quote:

Originally posted by David Floyd
It would be realistic to opt out of an MPP,

I didn't realize you didn't have the choice not to declare war. In Civ2 you could. That's too bad, I think. I'll have to play the game more to see if perhaps Firaxis made the right choice. On the surface though.......

Quote:

MPPs should be replaced with simple alliances, or maybe their should be an option for the two most powerful powers to create opposing alliance groups, and every other Civ must either join one, or stay neutral with significant penalties...I dunno seems like an interesting concept, anyway.

I think this is CivIV talk here...

Unless Firaxis releases one heck of an add-on pack in the spring.

David Floyd · November 18, 2001, 21:30

Yeah, but tell me how cool it would be to have the option for you and a number of other Civs to pool resources to build a very expensive Great Wonder resulting in a NATO/Warsaw Pact-like association, with joint control of units, rotating military leadership, etc.

kittenOFchaos · November 18, 2001, 21:54

SO far...war against me has been a result of my own action...be it of attacking an enemy, not paying tribute or by one of enemies dragging in other states to join the war against me...OR someone wanting REVENGE after I'd fought them before...

I think that a peacenik that does appease the other civs will be able to get on without war.

David Floyd · November 18, 2001, 22:15

Possibly that should be another patch or next game fix - make militaristic civs more aggressive, unless your appeasement is so huge that it hurts you more than helps you.

D4everman · November 18, 2001, 22:54

Quote:

SO far...war against me has been a result of my own action...be it of attacking an enemy, not paying tribute or by one of enemies dragging in other states to join the war against me...OR someone wanting REVENGE after I'd fought them before...

In my games it never works out that way. It could, I'm sure, but I've had no such luck. Even when you're peaceful you'll have to fight at least one war because you're too powerful, or too weak. Its better to forge alliances or an MPP to protect yourself. If you don't your enemies will and you'll find yourself outnumbered. In my last game i remained allied with France the whole time. I gave them techs and any strat resources they lacked so they'd be able to fight in a war. (I kept them just behind me in tech since i had the lead). This way not only did they love me, they fought in my wars quite well! heck, ten musketeers defended one of my cities from a band of persian immortals! their heroism will be remembered!