Civ IV: The List v.2.0

[cassembler]

XI. Governments

A way to manage large empire. Instead of just city governors, how about "state" or "territory" governors. One could group cities together and assign perhaps a "ground offensive" command or a "culture building" command.

[Purple]

Kolyana, you are right. I didn't realize the movement indicator was dynamic.

[DarkCloud]

Okay, here is one idea- we could give each idea a priority level and an implementation level (ex: patch, expansion pack, Civ IV) what think ye about those ideas?

Thank you all for your ideas-
Narmox, that idea sounds interesting- I think I may download the game; thank you for the link.

Read/added/responded to Everything on page 1 except narmox's third post, Purple's post and Rasbelin's religion post. (they were too long )

La Russo- there is no Civ IV section; if you have a problem; please petition Mark about it.

Rasbelin- that is good: a 32 Civ Limit and a 16 civ-on-the-map limit.
---

Here is a sample letter to Firaxis about the list:

Dear Firaxis,

We (the Civ community), greatly appreciated your releasing the computer game, Civilization III.
However, we do believe that some things can be fixed in the patch, an expansion pack, or a sequel.
Thus, what follows is a HTML file that contains a list of over 100 ideas and suggestions to make Civ III even better.

These ideas came from nearly 70 different Civilization II and III players

We hope you will use them wisely.

We also wish for a response to this letter.

Thank you,

DarkCloud and the Apolyton Civilization Site Civ III community

Major Contribuitors-
DarkCloud- List Assembler
Rasbelin- Idea Assembler

[narmox]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
Okay, here is one idea- we could give each idea a priority level and an implementation level (ex: patch, expansion pack, Civ IV) what think ye about those ideas?

Thank you all for your ideas-
Narmox, that idea sounds interesting- I think I may download the game; thank you for the link.

I have a few more (but not now, no time...) As for "Antiquity", I tried it in win98, in win98/dos mode, and it wouldn't work. Either it needs an older DOS, or an older computer.

oh, that other idea, is juist about "provinces" or "states". Instead of Forbidden Palace, once your empire gets large enough, and probably depending on govt, you can divide your empire into provinces that each get their capital (thus reducine corruption around). My idea hasn't got further yet, but it can tie in wit hthe above idea to group cities together to assign batch jobs to that group at once instead of managing each city. It might also tie in with the idea of revolution, who knows... Too many ideas flying in my head now

Read/added/responded to Everything on page 1 except narmox's third post, Purple's post and Rasbelin's religion post. (they were too long )

La Russo- there is no Civ IV section; if you have a problem; please petition Mark about it.

Rasbelin- that is good: a 32 Civ Limit and a 16 civ-on-the-map limit.
---

Here is a sample letter to Firaxis about the list:

Dear Firaxis,

We (the Civ community), greatly appreciated your releasing the computer game, Civilization III.
However, we do believe that some things can be fixed in the patch, an expansion pack, or a sequel.
Thus, what follows is a HTML file that contains a list of over 100 ideas and suggestions to make Civ III even better.

These ideas came from nearly 70 different Civilization II and III players

We hope you will use them wisely.

We also wish for a response to this letter.

Thank you,

DarkCloud and the Apolyton Civilization Site Civ III community

Major Contribuitors-
DarkCloud- List Assembler
Rasbelin- Idea Assembler

sounds great.. and Thank you Darkcloud for doing this, you're just great

[Kc7mxo]

I disagree. Silver isn't a luxury. I would rather it was instead used as a set amount of taxmoney per turn. The spanish extracted massive amounts of silver from the new world, and they didn't use it for candlesticks. They used it to pay soldiers.

[KaiserKiser]

How about that "Go To City" option. I hate having to scroll across the map to send my units there. I miss my "hit G" shortcut and bringing up a list of cities.

[Kolyana]

FIND ...

FIND resource, FIND inactive Worker, FIND Spearman, FIND fortified troops ...

I would find all of these useful.

[Sze]

For Civ 4.0

Satellites

Spy Satellite (0,0,40?) requires Satellites

A new unit type that can be used in two ways. It can fly over a vast swath of the map revealing the terrain/cities/units below. It should be able to completely map the world (average sized map) in 10 turns or so. This path can be automated so that the player doesn't have to move it manually.
At any time it can stop within one space of a rival city and spy on that city revealing the city improvements built and any that are being produced. This ends its turn.
These units are invulnerable. {Perhaps they can be destoyed by civs with Strategic Missile Defense, ICBMs, or stealth fighters.}


TV Satellite (city improvement) requires Satellites

Functions like wealth, but converts shields into entertainment (4:1).


Space Telescope (city improvement) requires Satellites

Functions like wealth, but converts shields into science (4:1).

[Rasbelin]

At least one thing is for sure, Civ IV must have MP included right from the beginning. I assume quite many of us agree on that point.

MP specs for Civ IV

- Both TCP/IP and IPX/SPX protocols supported.
- Supported game types: LAN, Internet, modem, hotseat.
- The game would be played as usually, expect humans could negotiate and chat (like in Civ II MP).
- The hotseat model should be reconstructed.

[Mongoloid Cow]

'Been doin' some thinking... (Not like me but anyway )

RESOURCES

In regard for resources, instead of having them divided into Strategic / Luxury / Food / Other, maybe each resources has its own uses and traits.

For example:
Take the idea of a new resource Silver. Out of all of the above categories, it would best fit into the luxury or other category, even though it was used differently. So instead, give it its own traits :
- Gives x amount of money into the treasury each turn
- Tradeable (can be traded)
- City Trade Bonus of y trade production
- Happiness benifit of 1

The idea could be applied to all resources, and although it might get a bit complicated, the importance of each, individual resource is enhanced.


RELGION

With regards to Rasbelin's idea of religion, maybe after certain technological achievements, different types of religion pops up with each better than the last.

For example: (needs work)

All citizens start of Animistic. With Ceremonial Burial, they can build a shrine/idolia/deific building
After researching Polytheism, Polytheic priests pop up. The shrines are upgraded to temples are more effective.
After researching Monotheism, larger and better forms of happiness/cultural are available, and a HOLY WAR can be declared where all nations with that religion as the state religion are invited to join in without reputation damage.


CITY JOBS

Maybe new city jobs (Entertainer, Taxman, Scientist) could be worked into the game, although I have no idea of any one.

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Mongoloid Cow

With regards to Rasbelin's idea of religion, maybe after certain technological achievements, different types of religion pops up with each better than the last.

That's was my point too. As you might have understood from the example religion, they were more than primitive. Humanism and Christianity would have been among the most "advanced" religions/ideologies.

All citizens start of Animistic. With Ceremonial Burial, they can build a shrine/idolia/deific building
After researching Polytheism, Polytheic priests pop up. The shrines are upgraded to temples are more effective.
After researching Monotheism, larger and better forms of happiness/cultural are available, and a HOLY WAR can be declared where all nations with that religion as the state religion are invited to join in without reputation damage.

Good thought! I could try to add that to the complete religion scheme.

[Rasbelin]

I assume I have forgot to suggest the return of the farmland improvement and Refrigeration advance (allows Workers to build farmland and a new city improvement, Supermarket (as in Civ II)).

[Adagio]

I just came up with some minor ideas, I haven't studied them that much, but I'll post them anyway (I sometimes tend to forget ) so here they are:

A new timeline:
Each time the game is ended we see this wellknown timeline telling when the cities/wonders were built and where, etc. But I'd also like to see another smaller timeline telling when a mayor war starts/ends, the golden age for all civs, era changes for the civs (you know, the modern days, ancient days, etc...). This timeline is not ment to be mixed with the classic timeline so we can choose which one we want to see/read (Just like we can choose if want to see the history for power or culture...)

Special needs for special wonders:
e.g. the Pyramids needs to be built in a city built on a dessert square (or the dessert square next to a river) square. If this is made there need to be made some changes in how many shields the Pyramids (or any wonder with a such change) needs, otherwise we end up having to built the Pyramids in the year 2k AD

Modern friends:
I don't know about you, but I think it's kinda annoying to have to ask (and then buy) for a map of my friends territory just to get an update on how it looks like. In ancient times I understand, but in these modern days we can always see how the friends nation looks like. The tv/trips makes us able to know without problems how large the friends capital is. With other words: I would like to have an updated map each time something happens (city grows, road made, etc), but still with fog of war so I can't know where they have their units. Also to be able to know which of my friends city is being attacked so I can help them to protect the city (instead of having to take a trip to the easter side of the country to find out they are being attack in the west side of the country)

More advanced revolt:
Let's say five different nations have some cities on some island (No capital is on this island). The cities have little culture. This makes a chance for the whole (or part of) island to revolt into a new nation (Like the US), Of course this is only avaliable for games where not all of the 16 countries have been used

Wartime:
Make some nations (AI's) want to do everything to get peace after a while of war. If a war is started in the "mutual protection" days it's almost only one way to stop the war (destroy all the other nations), because...well, if you have been in this situation (and who haven't) then you know what I'm talking about here, so no need for an explenation. It would be great if the AI would do more to keep peace after 50 years of war, instead of making peace and the next turn he/she breaks the peace again (Because of the mutual protection pact)

Just my few dollars

Oh, and btw, the religion thingy, I really hope they will include that

[DarkCloud]

Originally posted by Kc7mxo
I disagree. Silver isn't a luxury. I would rather it was instead used as a set amount of taxmoney per turn. The spanish extracted massive amounts of silver from the new world, and they didn't use it for candlesticks. They used it to pay soldiers.

Hmm... This is a good point- I believe I'll take it out.

I'll update later today on my home computer.

Wow. The formatting of your posts will really help me a lot- thank you

Tonight I believe I'll get 3/4 ths fo the new ideas up.

Thank you

[Purple]

Kolyana, I found the source of my confusion about movement points in the Info Box. It does list remaining movement, but only in whole numbers. It should list fractions (taking into account road movement), they way it is done in SMAC.

Purple

[Spiffor]

Here are some thoughts of what could be done in Civ-series to make it even better (not specifically Civ4, but some of my wishes would seem utopic for an expansion). Well, some of these ideas are long explained -food trading and international congresses), because I wanted to give concrete ideas of how it could work ; just skip the whole chapter if these ideas are none of your interest.

Small changes, which could be done in a patch or an expansion :
- Tradable units with other civs. With the same system as for workers (the unit you want to trade must be in your capital, you must have trade roads with your partner). The AI should value this unit about : the unit's modernity, the unit's experience, the civilization's military needs.

- Bribing other civs to declare war to others, without getting directly involved, like in Civ2. With this tool, you really can play a puppet-master kind of game : weakening your ennemies, and direclty helping your friends, without waging a war.

- The spies should know the vote intentions of other civs. There should be a way to bribe them to vote for you (HIGLY expansive, and impossible if their spies know you're going to win)

- A complete information screen about others civs in which you have an embassy. Government, capitol, relations with other civs (not only war/peace..., but also politiness), trade agreements, treasury, vote intentions, and most important : the knowledges they have and are researching. This screen should be accessed by a right click.
At the beginning of each turn, your foreign advisor should pop up, saying in one screen everything which happened (war declarations, discovered technologies, traded technologies, diplomatic incidents...), big deal such as war and peace declarations being written bold.

- This one-popup-system should be used with the cultural advisor when he learns some civ is building a wonder. It would avoid the "16 popups syndrome" which reminds me Civ2

- Possiblity to import the same good several times (even if you have the resource in local), and sell them to other civs, making profit.
- It should be impossible to exchange communications with other civs before the radio. It would avoid the creation of an international system as soon as the antiquity (irrealistic, plus the knowledge spreads too fast)


More important changes, which I don't know if they are compatible with Civ3 hard code :

- trading food. It could happen like this :
Here, in my city of Delhi, I have 4 excess food. I know that Bombay has no excess food. Therefore, I want 2 Delhi's food to go to the trade network. To do this, I press the "minus" button next to my food bar twice:

Then, I can see at my trade advisor I have 2 food in local trade :

Now, I want to allocate this food in Bombay, I press the "plus" button twice. Voilà ! Bombay will grow again.

If I prefer, I can trade it with my Zulu neighbours, who live mostly in deserts. Since they lack food terribly, they're going to value it much. There shouldn't be any reserve of tradable food (it would be horrible for the game mechanics, for the AI and for the player to manage), so it would be only possible to trade it on a "per turn" basis, not "lump sum".

This should be impossible as long as Railroad and sanitation are not discovered (well, refrigeration doesn't exist anymore), and to trade food through water, mass production would be needed as well.


- Similar system to trade shields. No need for specific knowledge to do it (the Egyptians mobilized the whole empire to build the pyramids), but there should be a terrible loss before Railroad. These shields could be used to rush wonders, but 2/3 of the imported shields should go to waste in this case, like when you disband a unit in a city (correct me if I'm wrong). These shields couldn't be multiplied by factories or the like.


- Since the world wars are difficult, if not impossible, to end, there should be a possibility to call international congresses (by clicking a button in the diplomacy / shift-D screen). It should look like this :

The central proposition (such as "peace treaty with any other, right of passage with any other"...) must be accepted by all so that the congress is a success. The proposition would make the leaders react, and you can see with their faces if they agree or not.
If they don't agree, what to do ? Bribe them ! By double clicking on their face, a specialized diplomacy screen should pop up, where you make propositions only to make them accept the treaty (private diplomacy can be held anywhere else during the game).
Naturally, you don't want to pay for the whole world peace. In such a situation, there should be a button when you're speaking to "give to..." an other :

Once you click it, the concessions you ask from your partner don't go to you, they go to another civ. Here's an example :
Let's say the Aztecs have won against the Iroquois, capturing Salamanca, but due to intricated MPPs, this war cannot cease. As the neighbours of the peaceful Iroquois, you don't want the balance to be broken by an unfinishable war. Then, you call a congress between Iroquois, Aztecs, all of their allies. The Aztecs will accept the peace treaty for 20 gold per turn, but you feel the Iroquois must pay : On the congress screen you double click on Hiawatha, choose "give to..." -> "the Aztecs". And then, as you would do in a normal diplomacy screen "gold"-> "per turn" -> "20".

When you return on the congress screen, you see Moctezuma accepting, because he knows he recieves a compensation.
If you definately cannot have everyone accept, you could kick the "rebels" out the congress.

Well, I admit managing the other's diplomacy is not easy, so I think such a tool should be completely optional. But useful if you want to influence more directly the others. These multilateral bargainings could be used to make solid alliances too, by asking all those who are MPPed with you to MPP between themselves as well. (or to ask everyone to reduce his nuclear weapons, and so on...)
International congresses should be available once nationalism is discovered, or once UN is built. I don't think the AI could manage such a thing, so only the player could call for one. If the negociations succeed, due to your great diplomatic skill, the invited civs would be a bit more likely to vote for you.


- About trade : there should be a way to build manufactured luxuries (cars, hi-fi, but also some manufactured medieval ones). A specific improvement, say "car factory" should be available if you have the needed resources (coal, iron and oil), and would turn one shield into a luxury. It would also cease to function when you stop having these resources. You couldn't build more "luxury producing improvements" than the number of civs, and only one per city.

- More improvements and worker abilities to boost demographic growth : modern farmland (which positive effect is cumulative with railroad), industrial fishing harbours, which produce three food per water tile instead of two. Agro-industrial complex as a city improvement which raises the food output by 25% or 50% in the city. A very modern agriculture feeds more than 200 people for one peasant after all.
- "Rice" tiles : can't produce anything else than food, but lots of it, say five or six, and more with irrigation / railroad / farmland.
- Growth oriented civs, with following bonuses : Extra food in town / city / metropolis. Growth oriented improvements twice cheaper.


Some bigger changes :

- A "newbie mode". No offense in the word newbie, we all were newbies. But most things I have seen written (and written myself) come from really experienced gamers, who already know the game mechanics, and would probably confuse or repell someone who didn't play like hell to civ-games since ten years
Implementing a newbie mode would allow the game to be simple and smooth for those who need it, and would allow much more management to hardcore civers.

- If the civ Series continue to use exclusive governments, they should have much more identity. If your people are too unhappy under democracy, they should not vote for you next elections, and you will suffer a whole term watching a !&# AI managing YOUR empire. Under communism, there are no local governors or automated workers, you decide everything (economy is planned after all). Under despotism, instead of atrocious corruption, the governors should sometimes build what they want in the city, without you being able to be obeyed during this construction (lack of true authority and bureaucracy)... Just ideas. But having government types with strong identities would make a revolution not only a choice between trade and war, but also a choice of society.

- Maybe establish a distinction between raw materials (which would be displayed as logs, stones etc.) and industrial goods, displayed as steel bars, construction wood... Purely eye candy before industrialization, but then, ony raw materials could be transformed. The factory-worker specialist would then have sense, increasing the multiplicator. More clearly, if you have a 100% augmentation of industrial output (factory + coal plant), having a worker would change it to 110%, 2 workers to 120% etc. More subtle than the worker in CTP.

- Some projects would need not only industrial production to be built, but also money and science. I think about wonders particularly : to build the SETI program, you would use the normal shield production (say, it needs 200 shields), but also the scientific output (600) and and some money directly (200, these figures are just examples), since SETI programs dosn't need ultra big buildings but ultra big research.

-There could be a possibily to upgrade the current units to a slightly more powerful of the same kind (like in Starcraft). Historically, the units evolved between true technical revolutions : the early bombards of Hundred years war were far less powerful than the cannons of the American civil war (both are represented by the same unit).
It could be possible to allocate some science -through plus and minus buttons- to these upgrades, which would need much less science than a true advance, and increase attack and defense of the units periodically. The stats of an upgraded unit could not exceed those of a basic, more modern, unit. Say, a wholly upgraded musketman can be as strong as a basic rifleman, but not stronger.


Well these were just my ideas to make Civ series even better. I hope you find them interesting and that I expressed myself clearly !

[Oncle Boris]

Here are a few thoughts:

1. I believe you should have the last choice when it comes to your government.

2. Social engineering from SMAC was great, although in the Civilization context it is not quite realistic. My idea would be to have a kind of dynamic social engineering, where the values of your citizens would be based not only on your civ caracteristics, but also on your level of tech advancement, and the city improvements you have. For example, a civ with many banks and stock exchanges would have Wealth as its social value. Religion could be included in this screen, but I disagree with it: whatever religion he had, man has always been the same - he wanted decent living conditions, food, love, etc. Adding religion would add unnecessary complexity, while the idea of holy wars could be replaced by antagonism between different social engineerings.

3. Synthetic oil is NOT economically viable. The Germans used it only because they were so desperate. Look, even now no one is even thinking about it even though oil prices have more than doubled in the last decade. Having the option available is a good idea - but it should cost big bucks.

4. Manufactured luxuries (turning shields into luxuries) is a promising idea, although as it is now it needs to be improved.

5. I love the idea of revolutions, civil wars and the likes

6. Spiffor's idea of congresses and food trading is awesome

7. Boats are useless in Civ, even though they played a major historical role! Introduce a fleet system (a la Third Reich, Avalon Hill's board classic), where you don't build individual ships, but instead "fleet factors" that would evolve depending on your tech level. Each fleet factor represents a mix of certain ships.
map making- triremes (antiquity)
feudalism- galleys (middle ages fleets)
navigation- caravels, galleons (Renaissance)
magnetism- Man-o-war, frigates, galleons (Colonization era)
refining- dreadnoughts, ironclads, late wooden ships (industrial)
mass production- battleships, cruisers, destroyers, carriers,
Rocketry- modern fleets, composed of nuclear subs, AEGIS cruisers, and carriers.

Each fleet has "unlimited" movement and can perform missions:
explore (risky)
patrol shipping lines
attack enemy shipping lanes
conduct seaborne invasion (including bombardment support)

Subs are now buit separately and used to wage economical warfare: you tell them to assault a specific harbor. They will then try to cut fleets coming in and out of it, possibly cutting ressource supplies, or eliminating enemy fleet factors. They could also be supported by "normal" fleet factors (a la German WW2 raiders). The only way to avoid this is to assign sufficient protection to your shipping lanes. Their advantage over normal fleets is that they would cost much less shields (but could not perform the other kind of missions).

So that was my two cents worth. Don't hesitate to flame me if you don't like my suggestions

[DarkCloud]

Well, I'm doing an update-

narmox- I really don't know about the Dynamic Civ thing; I mean we already have minor to major tribes in that you start with one city and branch out- perhaps I merely do not understand you- but that is what I understanded. Sorry if I misunderstood.

KaiserKaiser- I believe we do have a goto city option in the game, if I am not mistaken- I don't know the key, however

Up Thru: Rasebelin: 26-11-2001 06:23

I'll see what else I can do later today, then upload it tommorrow about this time, thank you all.

[Jer8m8]

I have another idea-volcanoes. I made a thread about it called "mod idea" in th ecreation forum

[Spiffor]

Nothing about new ideas

Just that : if any firaxian find my modified pictures are wrong reguarding the copyright, please don't sue me. Just tell me to remove them instead, I will do it quickly

(Well, since I saw Infogrames can't imagine just telling "no" amiably without suing, I prefer give the Idea directly)

[Sze]

I don't exactly know how corruption works in Civ3. I'm also stealing some of these ideas from other threads. Those qualifiers in hand, let's talk about corruption.

Both waste and corruption are affected by the city's distance from the place, the empire's size, the government type. I can see how a courthouse would diminish the corruption/waste due to distance from the palace, but I think there should be more ways to mitigate corruption/waste. As I see it, corruption can be lessened by improving the effeciency of the workforce, increasing communication throughout the empire, and by developing more efficient and reliable ways of handling resources. What I propose is a system with several baby steps to lessening corruption based on several techs and city improvements.

Each one of these techs would knock off, say, 5-10% of the overall corruption in a city. That number is a total guess because I don't really know what the corruption model is.

Currency <- exchanging money is more efficient than bartering
Banking <- reliability & accountability in finances
Corporation <- corporations are known for improving efficiency to maximize profits
Steel <- a mixture, a more efficient use of natural resources
Recycling <- by definition decreases waste

Writing, Printing Press, Radio, Computer, Satellite <- decreasing corruption by making the empire 'smaller' through communication

I don't want this to result in zero corruption. I just want a more realistic and manageable system. An added plus to this system is that half of these techs currently have no new improvement or unit attached to them (corporation, steel, writing, printing press, radio). This would also restore some of the importance to tech gains that has been lost due to the revamped resource/combat system.

Police Stations fighting corruption is a good idea, but they wouldn't really address waste. so I would only allow them to do so if corruption and waste were decoupled which would probably just add unnecessary complexity.

An idea which I love from another thread was the introduction of a Supreme Court small wonder, buildable when you have 5 courthouses, that gives 15-30% corruption reduction to every city in your empire.

[Oncle Boris]

Actually, while the solutions to improve corruption management are usually well-thought, I believe they add unnecessary complexity.
The corruption model in Civ3 is excellent - that is, until the industrial ages.
All through dawn of civilization to the industrial revolution, every empire suffered rampant corruption. The Romans keeping only one shield in far away cities like Londinium seems fair to me.
However, with the development of railroad, telegraph, and then radio, EFFICIENT post (mainly due to the invention of the stamp), telephone, and now internet, it is completely ridiculous to think corruption (in modern, advanced countries) has any link to distance from the capital. Is San Francisco more corrupt than New York just because it is farter from Washington?

My suggestion would be to put a cap to corruption depending on the government and tech level. At best, under a democracy with all techs, it could be something like 25% (which would justify offshore cities). This would yield approximately the same results as all the other "add this improvement" "add this small wonder" suggestions without creating unuseful complexity.

[Spiffor]

A completion about trading food & shields, which I explained in this trade:
It should be possible to take the resources of squares which are not in your city radius, like in SMAC. These resources go to your local trade, like the food/shield you want to trade between cities. To takes the resources far from your cities, you would build a special square improvement, losing the worker in the process (in fact, it would be a colony for food/shields). Such a "food-colony" could be built only in your borders, but only destroyed if someone pillages it : if my ennemies expand their borders in my former territory, they can use these food-colonies without rebuilding them, provided they didn't pillage them during the war.
Building food-colonies should be possible anytime, but useless as long as you don't have the knowledge to trade food. Since many tiles will probably have food colonies on it, the graphics should be discreet (not bigger than a mine for example)

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by DarkCloud

Up Thru: Rasebelin: 26-11-2001 06:23

What's this then? Am I also called Rasebelin? Rasbelin, Ras, Rasbey, but Rasebelin? Never heard before... And that date and time? Secret mission?

[Rasbelin]

Just some more "minor" ideas from me...

1. Scenario making

This is something important for many of us. First of all the Civ3Edit is quite good, but a better one should be made for Civ IV. More flexibility, better adjust of corruption and city growth, adjusting culture aspects would also become useful, scripting language (at least there's some Apolytoners wanting this (Immortal Wombat?) and the adjustment of military ranking system (conscript-regular-veteran-elite-leader), so that you could change the ratio of great leader promotions from the normal 1:16. Making triggered events and notifications (like the World News Flash in many CiC scenarios) should also be available.

2. More leaders per civ

Every civ could have two different rulers available for being chosen as the civ's leader. Example: Americans - George Washington and Woodrow Wilson.


I'm going to make a complete list on 32 civs and 64 leaders later today and tomorrow (hey, 64 leaders to assemble).

[Mongoloid Cow]

Been doin' more thinkin (on a roll )

CIV NUMBERS:

With the civs, there should be about 40 civs programmed in. In a game you have a maximum of 20 (don't go unrealistic to 256 or something) but in a scenario the creator can include all 40 in the scenario.

PS: I agree with Rasbelin that there should be 2 or 3 leaders per civ (try not to be sexually biast, although for some civs like the Aztecs or Zulus it's pretty much imposible)


SCENARIOS:

The scenario editor needs all the power in the world! If he/she wants it to happen that if one city falls, every other city in a region goes to that civ, or if he wants a world war to be programmed in, he should be able to without having to go through an enormous list of events; ie create the world war in one event not 100+ after something specific happens.

Scripting language should be clear and simple


ONE LAST POINT:

BRING BACK CHEAT-MODE!!!!!!!

[narmox]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
narmox- I really don't know about the Dynamic Civ thing; I mean we already have minor to major tribes in that you start with one city and branch out- perhaps I merely do not understand you- but that is what I understanded. Sorry if I misunderstood.

What I meant is that not all civilizations that are there today were there 6000 years ago. Some (like France, Germany, etc) evolved from barbarian tribes living off of the fallen roman empire. So it'd be nice if, for example, barbarians managed to conquer a few cities from a major tribe amd hold on long enough, it mihgt be possible for them to be on the way to becoming a major tribe. So, new nations could appear, disappear, etc... Add to this civil war, empires breaking down (like the USSR for example).

I think (and I hope) this would make a game more interesting, instead of always having the same civs (minus conquered ones) throughout all the game.

[DarkCloud]

up thru spiffors 1st post- anything further and it overflows that is good

Mongoloid- good work!

RAsbelin- that is the tiem i got throu with your post- sorry about the misspelling

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by Mongoloid Cow

With the civs, there should be about 40 civs programmed in. In a game you have a maximum of 20 (don't go unrealistic to 256 or something) but in a scenario the creator can include all 40 in the scenario.

I agree with you on this (it was my idea originally ). You should be able to add the maximum amount of allowed civs into a scenario, because it brings more reality to scenarios. For instance my Enduring Freedom scenario didn't take off for Civ II, because I simply can't add Russia and Tajikistan into one one bunch and what about China? There wouldn't be enough space for it.

Scripting language should be clear and simple

I agree on this too (perhaps since I have posted on that earlier).

BRING BACK CHEAT-MODE!!!!!!!

Simply: I agree on this.

[Rasbelin]

Originally posted by DarkCloud

RAsbelin- that is the tiem i got throu with your post- sorry about the misspelling

Nah, don't worry, take yor time!