interesting info about the Colossus

[xane]

NATO and Socialism - You people really need to start looking at these things from the other side.

First off, France was invited to join NATO but refused to enter discussions because of the percieved American dominance and their insistance on an independant nuclear force.

Lets be perfectly honest, NATO eventually degenerated into additional airfields for the US to launch bombers from and additional markets for US arms companies to sell to, you can't help but agreeing with the French on why they cynically looked at NATO as "America Inc". At least France had to balls to stand up for their beliefs, something I would have thought Americans would have appreciated.

You may deride France's insistance that US attacks on other countries are nothing to do with NATO and their reluctance to become involved, but that same derision never emerged when Britain (another NATO member) engaged Argentina over the Falklands conflict, that was "nothing to do with America" and that was okay ?

Socialism is often regarded as one step down from Communism, there are socialist organisations everywhere in Europe and I can tell you categorically that none of them would consider Communism to be a viable form of government, in Europe we had Communist countries of the worst kind right next door to us for 50 years, thats enough to put you off forever. In fact I'd lay a bet that there are more diehard Communists in American than in Europe !

What Europe refers to as "socialism" is merely a variation on American liberal politics (or rather the other way round), and I'm not talking about the "bleeding-heart" liberal kind. The politics of socialism have as much central control as any other form of government, just a different approach.

[Elucidus]

Originally posted by Ray K


The spikes on the head were directly from the Colossus, which was constructed to represent the god Helios. Statues of Helios had the spikes on the head (sunbeams), so Lady Liberty got them as well.

Also notice the distinctly Greco-Roman nose.

I didn't say it was not based on it. I don't believe they did it to represent the god helios, however.

Also I thought these were rather interesting to read...

-Taken from the History Channel

Sculptor Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi combined elements of the Egyptian pyramids he admired with his mother's face to serve as a model for the statue, which he finished early in 1884.


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7 Spikes in the Crown represent:
- Either Seven Seas:
Arctic, Antarctic, North & South Atlantic, North & South Pacific, Indian.
- Or Seven Continents:
North and South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Antarctica, Australia


Courtesy of Alexander Foertsch:
- 25 windows in the crown represent: "natural minerals" of the earth
- Toga represents: The Ancient Republic of Rome
- Torch represents: Enlightenment
- Chains underfoot represent: Liberty crushing the chains of slavery


----

-Taken from the History Channel

Colossus, name given in antiquity to a statue of very great size. Examples include the Athena Parthenos on the acropolis at Athens and the Colossus of Rhodes, one of the Seven Wonders of the World. Among colossuses of later times, the Great Buddha at Kamakura, Japan, and the Statue of Liberty in New York harbor are notable. Two colossal figures of Jesus are in South America, one at Rio de Janeiro and the other, Christ of the Andes, on the boundary of Argentina and Chile.

----

Statue Inscription:

The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
with conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
a mighty woman with a torch
whose flame is imprisoned lightning,
and her name Mother of Exiles.

From her beacon-hand glows
world-wide welcome;
her mild eyes command the air-bridged harbor
that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands your storied pomp!"
cries she with silent lips.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Emma Lazarus (1849-1887)



Hmm, sounds to me to have a little more meaning than just the New Colossus. But that is just me. I guess we agree to disagree. Have fun.

[Ray K]

Originally posted by Elucidus
Hmm, sounds to me to have a little more meaning than just the New Colossus.

ummm, who said that? I said that the Statue of Liberty was inspired by the Colossus, which it most definitely was.

The Statue was a product of the Enlightenment, as evidenced by the information you presented.

[Elucidus]

Well, you did say that the spikes were taken directly from the Colossus...and well, they may be similar but there is meaning behind them. Which means they were not directly from the colossus. I don't have the energy to argue about it, though.

[ThaddeusAlexander]

You never know - maybe the the sun rays on the Helios Colossus numbered a certain amount for a similar reason ...

Doubt it was seven unless they knew about north america .. but heck, maybe they just sensed its existance

Either way, its clear that the Statue of Liberty was inspired in part by the colossus - after all, Rhodes was the island of the freed and unwanted, just like the US ... what is written on the SoL has a lot of connections with the colossus ... even if you argue that the colossus was built because of a military victory; the US was one big military victory anyway, wasn't it?

Cheers!
~Alex

[Elucidus]

I agree with you Thaddeus, heck look at the first paragraph of the inscription on the statue. It describes the colossus. Being from New York and growing up in the shadow of the "Mother of Exiles," I just like to believe in the meanings of it. It is all speculation anyway, as the only thing we know for sure is that it was inspired by the colossus. Well, guys have a pleasant night. I have some mod testing and updates to do.

[Akka]

France and USA relationship have been throughout the XXth century very special. It's all about culture and stereotypes, as are always the nation relationships.
I would not say that one country hate the other. It's more a matter of comtempt and scorn than hate.
Americans and French are probably the most self-centered people in the whole world, and I think they can rival only with the Japanese about how superior they feel toward others. It's a good way to have some frictions.
There is a part of jealousy too, because France was the first world power from 1600 to 1815 (remember that in the XVIIIth century, most aristocratic people spoke better french than their home langage) and that USA took its place. I suppose that there is a somewhat anger as feeling that its place has been stolen.
There is the stereotypes again : Americans see French as bragging and scornful people who think they are superior to others and are always asking for trouble, French see Americans as bragging and scornful people who think they are superior to others and are a big bunch of ignorants biggots.
There is also the frictions of culture, as USA is merely taking power in the whole area, and France just don't want to lose its own culture (in fact, it's one of the few countries that still have an international movie industry beside US).
There is again the political frictions, as USA is suspicious of anything that is left-winged, and France is suspicious about free capitalism.

All in all, it's probably the crash of two colossal egos

One thing I've never really understood about them though is how they went from Napolean to the seemingly pacifists they are now by and large?

Perhaps because they were the battleflied during WW1 and occupied during WW2 ?
There is something with the Cold War also, because after being the battleground for several centuries, Western Europe has become the most peaceful place in the world since 1950. Guess that when you're stifled between two superpowers, you tend to be more quiet
After all, Germany was an extremely warlike country, and is actually probably the most peaceful of the continent.

[ThaddeusAlexander]

OOPS! I posted something here that was suppose to be elsewhere ... sorry!

Cheers!
~Alex