Wonder Guide

[Encomium]

About the Theory of Evolution. . .

a lot of people have said "two techs are two techs". But, you have no choice in what techs you get.

Once when I built it, I received the tech I was working on (more than half finished), plus Espionage (which I consider a waste of time). That was hardly worth the effort of building that Wonder.

[Whoha]

you get a choice with TOE with the latest patch

[Pius Popprasch]

Originally posted by boney1
ToE is better than most of you think. I have found, at least in my latest game that what it gives you depends on not just the cheap advances but also what you are currently researching. I saved the turn before I got ToE and experimented. Basically it seems to give you things not from the thread you are currently researching. e.g. I had replaceable parts and was currently researching either steel or refining I got atomic theory and electricity. But when I was researching atomic theory I was given steel and refining.

I think you get the cheapest ones of your undiscovered tech list. Usually I'm leading with 1 tech when I build ToE and thus can sell the free techs at a high price.

GREAT WALL- 1. I don't fear Barbarians and don't build walls, either. Only in cases of emergency a wall can be a solution. Soon my towns will be cities and the wall is over. Metallurgy isn't all that far, either.

SHAKESPEARE - 1. There are better things to do in the game than researching Free Artistry.

[Arrian]

With the 1.17f patch, Theory of Evolution now works properly (like Darwin's did in Civ II). It will give the tech you are currently researching, plus a second that you get to choose. I use it to get atomic theory and electronics -> Hoover, baby. ToE is really good now.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Encomium
About the Theory of Evolution. . .

a lot of people have said "two techs are two techs". But, you have no choice in what techs you get.

Once when I built it, I received the tech I was working on (more than half finished), plus Espionage (which I consider a waste of time). That was hardly worth the effort of building that Wonder.

Well, if you understood how the Wonder worked, maybe you could figure out how to use it properly. You wasted 1/2 a tech's worth of research because you didn't understand what ToE does. First off, because you say you can't choose which techs you get, I assume you are still using 1.16, because 1.17 changed that. Ok, then, so you are going to get the two cheapest techs you don't already know. You know when the Wonder will be complete. Ok, then, you can either research normally toward a tech it won't give you (say you don't have espionage and communism... those are the cheapest you don't have, so ToE would give you them. You can choose to research corporation) or, once you can't complete a tech prior to the wonder being built (say you finish researching a tech 3 turns prior to ToE being finished), you can just go 100% taxes and rake in cash.

Prior to 1.17, ToE was a decent wonder. I always built it to keep it from the AI, of course.

-Arrian

[Ironikinit]

ToE is major, but you have to know how to use it. In 1.16 it required backfilling on old techs, but with 1.17, as Arrian points out, it gives the tech you're working on plus one of your choice. I thought it was good under 1.16, but now it's a bigger deal than Universal Sufferage. Getting the ToE sets up Hoover...

Basically, what Arrian said. ToE grants a late game tech lead and is one of the few wonders I strive for.

[realpolitic]

Guide By Alex 14: Wonders

Ive found it quite useful to alter the wonders file in Civ2 to make t more of them useful. I highly recommend using Civ3edit to alter the weakest wonders. It's user-friendly : and some of the wonders are too weak to try otherwise.

Personally I'd rather have a more playable game than absolute historical accuracy.

The Genetics wonders have to be moved up to be practical. With apologies to those conservatives who are reading this,
I renamed Genetics Socialized Medicine, changed the prerequisits to Sanitation and Communism, renamed Longetivity to National Health Care, and renamed Cure for Cancer to Psychopharmacology. The cost in shields is OK, because to keep the game balanced, anyone who gets these two plus Sufferage should pay thru the nose.

I also set The Oracle to expire with University, and the Hanging Gardens expire with Socialized Medicine ( see above), and now costs 400 gold.


I haven't changed the Theory of Evolution because it causes a dilemma - if you don't get it, a computer civ does, and the AI has probably already researched the secondary techs, so it would get 2 advanced techs. I build the Theory, but only after purchasing the secondary techs, so that I get 2 advanced techs.


For those who don't think Heroic Era is worth building, since you have to expend a GL to build an army, you might want to add an extra ability to the Wonder and adjust the shield cost.


I find the more ambigous the chioces, the more interesting the game is.

[King of Rasslin]

Pyramids are overrated. I only need a granery in my worker pumping city (I don't play industrious) or my capitol for fast settlers early in the game. By the time the pyramids are finished, the land rush is over.

Great Library is also overrated. I mean, techs get cheaper as other civs discover them. Why build this when you can get a few dozen horsemen or swordsmen instead?

Oracle is great, I think it's available a little earlier than the Hanging Gardens. I put a temple in every city I have, so I see the benefits of the Oracle.

Hanging Gardens are too late for me. I have a few luxuries by the time I get construction. The Oracle is better because it is cheaper and earlier.

The Lighthouse lets you travel through sea squares, NOT OCEAN! I changed this in the editor, though. I would encourage you to do the same.

The Colossus can give you +12 gold every turn if built in an aquaduct city. This is about 1/3 of the benefits of Smith's Trading Company, on a normal sized map. But it comes much earlier and it have plenty of culture with it. I love the Colossus on smaller maps.

Smith's Trading Company gives you less benefits that Wall Street, usually. It's too expensive. Again, a few dozen Knights would be a better investment here.

Magellan's Voyage doesn't go obsolete. That +1 movement adds up when you want faster navy units late in the game. I would build this if you are planning an invasion of a far away continent.

The Great Wall is useless. Barbarians are no worry by the time you make this. What a waste.

Newton's College/Copernicus's Observatory are useless too. You don't see much of a benefit at all. Again, you are better off making a ton of knights. Come on, 1 city doesn't contribute much science.

JS Bach's Cathedral is awesome for non-religious civs that won't make those super expensive cathedrals. I like this one.

Sistene Chapel is better than Bach if you have the religious trait and you are making a ton of cathedrals.

Sun Tsu is a great wonder. I save more money from not paying for barrack's than I do with Smith's! It helps you conquer other civs because the fast healing from the free barracks helps me keep my units alive. Ironically, I lose my elite units less because I can heal them so quickly in a newly captured city. This wonder indirectly helps me get leaders!

Unless you want a cultural victory, Shakespear's theater is useless. Duh...

Leonardo's workshop is perfect for me. I upgrade me spearmen throughout the game, sometimes up to mech infantry! And I like having 3 spearmen per city for defence. This wonder saved me a lot of money.

Hoover Dam is the best wonder in the game. Hydro plants can't be built by cities far from rivers. The Dam changes this. It is an instant boost to cities that have factories. If you have 10 cities with factories, you should make the Dam because it is actually cheaper than making 10 individual hydro plants! Plus, you don't have to worry about paying a ton of gold to maintain the plants. I like this one.

The UN doesn't give as satisfying a win as making the spaceship. I don't like it.

The Theory of Evolution is great for scientific civs. With the 2 advances, I pushed myself into the modern era and got rocketry too! I sold the 3 new techs to all other civs and made a fortune. While it isn't the best wonder, I ususally aim to get it in most of my games.

Manhatten Project is dumb, I let the computer make it. Who needs nukes anyway?

Cure for Cancer and Longevity are just pointless modern wonders. Who cares for these?

SETI is useless. It's just like Newton and Copernicus, except more expensive. I don't see the point of this one.

Universal Suffrage is like the Sistene Chapel. It's good if you are a non religious republic, but I think switching to communism or monarchy gives you about the same effect. Again, this is why I like religious a lot.

As for small wonders, the Forbidden Palace is the best, but Wall Street gets second. Heroic Epic is good if you can get it. Other than that, they are all junk. Well, Iron Works is ok if you can make it.

Overall, most of the wonders are junk. Only a few of them are really worth making.

[Theseus]

You neglect the concept of GLs... I agree, from a straight builder standpoint, why bother with many of the GWs / SWs.

But what if you can just bang one out? For me, then, all of the scientific, happiness, and economic Wonders are worthwhile. UN just to make sure no one calls a vote. Hoover's Dam? I've got a Civ2 jones for this bad boy, but I think it's actually sort of useless in Civ3.

One word: Context.

[Ijuin]

Using the editor, I have altered the wonders to what I think are appropriate.

Small Wonders:

The Ironworks now requires that your civ have Iron and Coal, but they no longer need to be in your city radius. This lets you build it wherever you wish.

Military Academy no longer requires a victorious Army, so you can now build it as soon as you get Military Tradition, even if you are unlucky enough to have never received a Great Leader by this point in the game.


Great Wonders:

The Colossus I have given the "increase shields in water" and "increase food in water" tags. This means that in a 12 population city it now gives you a maximum of 12 commerce, 12 food, and 12 shields.

Oracle now expires with Education, giving you a chance of getting the Sistine Chapel underway before it expires.

The Great Wall now grants Walls in every town in addition to its previous effects. This means that every new town automatically gets the 100% defense bonus without needing to build the Walls.

Magellan's Voyage now grants a Harbor in every city on the continent in addition to the +1 naval movement.

Shakespeare's Theater now doubles the effects of Colosseums instead of giving eight content citizens in one city.

SETI has been moved from Computers to Radio so that you can build it earlier.

Longevity has been moved from Genetics to Medicine so that you can build it earlier.

[King of Rasslin]

I can see a collossus city having 16+ production in the ancient world, in addition to the food and culture. That's too powerful, man.

Longevity should be available with medicine.

The iron works are so powerful, you shouldn't be able to make them unless that city has both resources in its radius.

SETI needs to be cheaper or more powerful, not earlier.

Magellan's Voyage is good as it is, except it should be a little cheaper maybe.

I like the Shakespear's Theater idea, but it should be more expensive.

Oracle should go obsolete a little later, but not with education. I think it should be useful longer, but I don't know where to put it.

[T-hawk]

So many wonders are so situation dependent. You can't assign absolute weights to them. And it's being able to adapt and shift your wonder goals in response to the developing game that makes the difference between being stuck on Regent and winning on Emperor. Also, the wonder cultural ratings mean ZILCH if you're not going for 20k culture. They will make up less than 15% of the total culture of any fairly large civilization.

Pyramids - 5+, if you can get them.
Oracle - 4 if going for a 20k culture win; 1.5 for religious civs (cheap temples), 1 otherwise.
Hanging Gardens - 3, usually not too hard to get. This wonder is good because it gives you happiness when you NEED it (before cathedrals, and often just as you shift into Republic); by the time it expires you'll have plenty of infrastructure and luxuries. It's also good for triggering Golden Age.
Colossus - 4 if going for 20k culture; otherwise 2. It's not that great; having the city build a couple settlers instead will get you just as much increased trade income; and it tends to spark Golden Ages too early.
Great Wall - 2.5 for militaristics (cheap walls), 1 otherwise.
Great Library - completely situation dependent. Often zero use on lower levels, but it can bring you into contention all by itself on Deity.
Great Lighthouse - also completely situation dependent for obvious reasons.

Sistine - 5 for religious (cheap cathedrals), 3.5 otherwise, if you can get it.
JS Bach's - 5+ (-0.5 each for archipelago and religious because Sistine is better.) My favorite wonder, and it's almost always easily reachable, since you can start prebuilding with a Palace far ahead of time and the AIs don't go for the tech.
Sun Tzu's - situation dependent. 2 if you're not going for war; 3 for a militaristic civ at war (your barracks are already cheap); 4 for a non-militaristic at war.
Leonardo's - also situation dependent. 2, plus 1 for every ten horsemen you're able to upgrade with it.
Copernicus - 2. Overrated; it's as much science as a library plus a university at double the cost.
Newton's - 2. See Copernicus. 3.5 for 20k culture goal, though.
Smith's - 2. It's nice to research the tech, and trade it to all the AIs just before you complete the wonder, though.
Shakespeare's - 4 for 20k culture; 0.5 otherwise.
Magellan's - Quite underrated; remember it's only 400 shields. 4+ for ANY situation where you plan to conquer someone on another continent; 5 to do two continental invasions.

Universal Suffrage - 2.5. Rather overrated. Its best use is to serve as a prebuild placeholder for Hoover Dam while using the Palace as the ToE placeholder. 1.5 for religious civs, too.
Theory of Evolution - 5 if you can use it to lock down Hoover; 4 if you can at least trade away the techs; 2 if you're playing catch-up.
Hoover Dam - 5+ (maybe 4.5 on archipelago.)

United Nations - Slightly overrated; it isn't that hard to avoid a diplomatic loss if you don't have it. Still a 4, though.
SETI program - 2. May as well build it when you have nothing else to do.
Longevity - 4. Rather underrated, and it's quite a bit of fun to play with. Its problem is that it lies so far away from the spaceship and modern armor tech lines. About the only goal it's useful for is 100k culture (or going for a 2050 histogram win).
Cure for Cancer - 3. See SETI.

All the small wonders are worth building when you can; no need to rate them. The Forbidden Palace is by far the most important, of course.

[Arrian]

T-hawk,

Good ratings, overall I tend to agree. I think you may undervalue the Colossus, but that is map-dependent. A good colossus city on a standard map is a really nice boost, and I imagine it could be a real game-breaker on a Tiny map. On a huge map, though, it wouldn't have much of an impact.

I'd put Leo's higher too, even without the horsemen (though that's my primary use for it too... I usually want a minimum of 20 horsemen ready to upgrade immediately). As time goes on, it will save you an awful lot of money.

The science wonders are indeed fairly weak, but I still want 'em, if only to deny them to the AI (I look at it not just in terms of beakers I gain, but beakers they DON'T).

Smith's, like any of the wonders that offer free building maintanence (Pyramids/Sun Tzu), is also map dependent. If you have a lot of markets, banks, harbors and airports, it is more than a 2.

King of Rasslin,

The Oracle does indeed expire too early to be of real use. Then again, I like the expiration trigger (theology). How about decreasing its shield cost to 200 shields, like the Colossus?

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

Leo's value goes up as the map grows. This is due to the larger numbers unit you will have to upgrade. Even more to warmongers. I like your ratings overall. I do like to gets smiths when I can if non Commercial can really help on bigger maps, but no game breaker.

[King of Rasslin]

The Oracle isn't very good at all. It should be as cheap as the colossus.

[asleepathewheel]

RE: Longevity

Yes, I agree that this takes too long to be very useful, however I have found it to be somewhat useful when engaging in late game wars. Since it adds two of your citizens at a time, it will be easier to hold the city. You can starve the city down to one, then it rapidly grows back, as your city. Granted, razing and settling is still the best/easiest technique for holding land in the late era, but this works well for those wonder cities that you capture and want to hold.

[Arrian]

I hate Longevity. It makes your cities grow past their sustainable pop level, putting them into starvation, which knocks them out of WLTKD. The city takes a long time to starve back down to the proper level. Meanwhile, it is suffering from much higher corruption than it should... all because of Longevity. It's garbage.

-Arrian

[Gastric ReFlux]

I've never played a game which has reached the tech for Longevity.

[vmxa1]

When very late in the game and cities are twenty plus size, I will adjust them when I can to not grow any more. If that does not work then I either creat settlers or suffer.

[Lord Merciless]

I consider the Sun Tzu's Art of War a must-build wonder. These are the reasons:
1. After capturing an enemy city on the same continent, you have a Barracks right away.
2. Saves 1gpt for each city on the continent.
3. Denies it to your enemy.

[Artifex]

Ditto Lord Merciless.

I play military civs and it is still a must have for those exact reasons. Although I usually have a stray leader hanging around too rush it.

[Arrian]

I used to like Sun Tzu more than I do now. I usually play militaristic civs, so barracks are quick 20-shield builds. The maintanence cost is an issue, I'll grant you, and is more and more of an issue on larger maps.

I actually really like capturing Sun Tzu on another continent. My home cities can easily build barracks themselves, and 1gold per city isn't too bad. But captured, 1-shield cities all have to have their barracks rushed, unless I get Sun Tzu over there. Either way, though, it's really a convenience thing (I love just hitting shift+U and upgrading my entire armed forces [excepting certain elite units, of course]).

I consider Leo's a must-have for a warmonger, whereas Sun Tzu is just nice.

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

Leo's is a must in Civ2 and Civ3, but even more in Civ3 as it does not become obsolete.

[Lord Merciless]

Leo's is undisputed.

[King of Rasslin]

You really appreciate Sun Tzu a lot more if you are playing a non militaristic civ. Eygpt, anyone?

Tzu also saves me over 20 gold in maintenence every turn, so I would consider it to be very good. Also, you don't want an AI like Russia getting it.

[Panag]

Originally posted by King of Rasslin
You really appreciate Sun Tzu a lot more if you are playing a non militaristic civ. Eygpt, anyone?

Tzu also saves me over 20 gold in maintenence every turn, so I would consider it to be very good. Also, you don't want an AI like Russia getting it.

hi ,

, agreed , but if you want to play it difficult , then you let the AI build it , for exactly the same reasons as you would build it (human player) , ....

this gives the AI some power , ....

have a nice day

[Silpy]

Barbarians!
The ones you lot have given 0,1 or 2 are usally the ones which have the greatist amount of Culture per-turn. Culture isVital for suvival on higher levels. Otherwise everybody will look down on you and all your cities will defect.......

[Lucarse]

Isn't half the idea of building a wonder the extra culture per turn?,
If i'm behind i target build wonders to get me ahead (doesn't always work).

If i'm ahead and get the chance i build every wonder just for the culture bonus ! *except longevity which i regard as a hindrence.

By the end of the game all the civs are falling over themselves to make friends with me, those who don't have my tanks on their door step that is.

Only for lower levels of course.

[Konquest02]

It's really nice to have the Colossus, Copernicus and Newton in the same city, by a river. Since the river already gives an extra commerce, the science wonders boost this effect even more. If you can build SETI in this city too, you're in for a good resaerch rate!

--Kon--

[Silpy]

Culture is so good!

For Example, once, the massive Roman empire decided they didnt like me anymore and invaded. Half of my cities fell in 5 turns, my armies were in full retreat and I assumed this would be the first war I will lose. But no! I made Peace, and started rebuilding the destruction. But as my culture was so massive (Out of 12 civs, my culture was about 4-5 times the size of the romans) and the ememies was so poor, my cities kept coming back to me! (Defecting) Within 10 turns, all my old cities we back in the fold, and a few new ones too!
Using culture to capture new cities is the non-violent way to increace your empire.