Wonder Guide

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Leo's is a must in Civ2 and Civ3, but even more in Civ3 as it does not become obsolete.

I'd disagree - it was FAR more powerful in C2. It was the only way to upgrade units, and you got the upgrades for FREE. Also, it expired pretty late in the game, after you upgraded most of the way along the tech chain.

[vmxa1]

To what techs I get are a funcion of my ToE build rate at that time.
If I did a small prebuild and can finish it in say 12 turns, I will try to research a few techs I skipped, if any exist.

If I am in good standing and trading, then I will research forward techs. So often I take Atomic and Elec for the free picks.

If I am not concerned about them building it as they are not in position tech wise and I did not do any prebuild and it takes longer to build then my picks will be different.

[Aqualung71]

Hoover is usually the Wonder I want most because of it's potentially huge effect on cumulative production and it can be a game-winner, though a counter argument would suggest that if you're advanced enough by that stage to actually get it, you're unlikely to lose anyway. Still, it's power is pretty awesome. However to get to Hoover, one cannot discount the critical importance of ToE. Done correctly, getting ToE will almost certainly get you Hoover (assuming you've got a city with a river....in a recent game I didn't...not even 1!)

My strategy is to get those RR's developed (big proviso: where's my coal?) in your top production cities, beeline for Industrialisation and get the factory built (preferably with a prebuild), then straight into 2 or 3 coal plants. One city will then go for US, while your top city will start the ToE prebuild (if you haven't got Scientific Method yet, that is). A little later you'll start the Hoover pre-build, maybe in a 3rd city. With factory and coal plants in your top 3 cities, the AI won't stand a chance as it often doesn't bother building them. Also with C3C the AI doesn't seem to go for Sanitation too early, so all cities will be limited to 12 (except Shakespeare's city).

Somewhere in there you've probably traded with the AI for Replaceable Parts, which can be important for this strategy since it doubles your workers' productivity - important for that production boosting RR building.

You've probably times your ToE pre-build so that you get the Wonder fairly soon after the tech, so unless you can get another tech quickly you set your research rate to zero for the extra cash. Then you pick up Atomic Theory and Electronics from ToE, and switch your pre-build to Hoover. The AI won't have a chance!

If all that works you will then sell Atomic Theory and Electronics to whatever AI's are still strong enough to pay a few hundred gpt, and by that stage you'll have a huge income, tech lead, and high production to build your offensive military (hardly need much defensive with RR's, unless you're embarking on intercontinental invasion), and it can get very boring from there on!

Which is why I think ToE is probably the most powerful Wonder.

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by player1
Sheakespear Th. - 0 (ZERO)
What's the point of this wonder.

8 culture/ turn. Build right on the edge of your empire and watch the enemy cities flip. Also, no unhappiness means you can concentrate on building military with this city. Also, it acts as a hospital. Build in a high-food city and it makes the city a settler/worker factory.

[Brundlefly]

Didnt realize how old this thread was. 2001! It was bumped by a newbie last month..

[vmxa1]

Yes the hospital aspect was not in before C3C.

[justjake73]

I always build the GL, but I have only gotten the Republic from it. I build it to deny the AI the advantage of having it. It would not bode well for me as a GL civ soars ahead in tech.

[Aqualung71]

Originally posted by justjake73
I always build the GL, but I have only gotten the Republic from it. I build it to deny the AI the advantage of having it. It would not bode well for me as a GL civ soars ahead in tech.

On the other hand, if you are already behind in techs, then the AI getting the GL will likely mean that more AI's will now have more techs than you, making them cheaper for you to trade.....an important factor as you go up in levels.

Also, by definition the GL does not allow a civ to move ahead in tech, only to catch up somewhat....perhaps not even to the leader, since it only gives techs that 2 other civs already have.

[Footballgod128]

its amazing how many dont like Shakespeare's Theater.

i dunno if someone has touched up on this yet or not, as i skiped from page 2 to 7, but it allows that city to go over 12 before you have hospitals, which i think helps ALOT if used properly.

i was playing a multiplayer game with a friend and he built this in his main city and it got huge, production and science was awesome, i couldnt build any wander, hed just beat me too it, even if i switched, i was about 3 times bigger then him in land area, but all my cities could only get to 12, that one city and wonder helped him so much.

so i think Shakespeare's Theater is far from useless, it only is if you build it in a city that actually couldnt get over 12, but, i dont think ive seen that yet, except in desert cities and then only once in a game where my starting city couldnt go over 3 cause it was all plains, no water or river, strange.......

but, i think Shakespeare's Theater is definalty over looked now, i thought it was useless before that, now i build it in my best city

[vmxa1]

Many look down on it because it comes at time when you don't need it bad and have lots to do.
But the biggie is that you have to research 3 techs that are optional. You can't afford that in games at the higest levels.
Emperor is about the last place I would consider it and I don't even then I never build it. I want in that next age more than a larger pop in one city.

[Aqualung71]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Many look down on it because it comes at time when you don't need it bad and have lots to do.
But the biggie is that you have to research 3 techs that are optional. You can't afford that in games at the higest levels.

I want in that next age more than a larger pop in one city.

I agree with both you and Footballgod in some respects. Shakespeare is most useful if it can help you get a leg-up on the AI to build ToE and then Hoover, but only if you can get it finished early enough to benefit from the increased size and get your factory/coal plant in place before the later wonders are available. The culture whammy is nice too. The optional techs aren't such a problem as you can often trade for those.

But given a choice between getting Shakespeare finished and moving across to ToE, Shakespeare loses hands down!

[gunkulator]

Originally posted by Thriller
Hoover is usually the Wonder I want most because of it's potentially huge effect on cumulative production and it can be a game-winner, though a counter argument would suggest that if you're advanced enough by that stage to actually get it, you're unlikely to lose anyway.

Sorta off topic but I find it odd that Hoover was left basically unchanged from the days of Civ2, when it was arguably just as awesome as it is for Civ3. I mean, really, a Hydro Plant in every city that really matters? That's pretty dang powerful. All the other biggies from Civ2 (Leo, Adam Smith, Sistine Chapel) have been nerfed significantly.

Pyramids is the same however it was unnecessary for a Civ2 player due to Rep/Dem WLTPD growth. That makes it very powerful in Civ3, but odds are you'll never get it anyway since the AI really guns for it.

[DrSpike]

Shakespeare's Theatre isn't useless, but that's the wrong question. Is it a good choice compared to other ways you could spend your resources for a different tech path that didn't get the techs you need for ST? I think almost never.

[:) Smiley]

Unless for some reason you really need Democracy, maybe in a large empire.

[senorFrito]

I really don't want to read ALL of the posts on this one issue, so if I repeat something I am sorry.

Theory of Evolution: 5!!!

I have to say this is an EXCELLENT wonder, unlike what many think. Here's my reasoning: it does NOT grant you the weakest nor the 'optional' wonders you haven't researched, it DOES give you whatever you are currently researching.

Here's how to get it to work nicely: 1 turn before the wonder is completed, set your science production to 0% (to gain one turns worth of money), select the science FURTHEST in your science chain, end the turn. Now, you have a nice pile of gold, an extra tech, and now you can select another one. Select, once again, the tech FURTHEST in the chain and nab it!

The reasons for selecting the ones furthest in your chain are 1) Further techs are generally harder to researcha nd therefore waste time; 2) You can now trade your earlier techs no prob and still be in the tech lead; and, 3) you can be that much closer to having an extremely advanced defensive unit or offensive unit, like the mech inf or the modrn armr.

Once you have nabbed the two extra techs, set your research back to as high as needed, and continue researching the tech you were origianlly. There is no point in nabbing the tech you were origionally researching b/c you already have science points allocated to it.

This wonder in my opinion is one of the best, take it or leave it.

[Krill]

I really don't want to read ALL of the posts on this one issue, so if I repeat something I am sorry.

If you checked when this thread was originally started, PTW had not come out. It is over two years old.

I have to say this is an EXCELLENT wonder, unlike what many think. Here's my reasoning: it does NOT grant you the weakest nor the 'optional' wonders you haven't researched, it DOES give you whatever you are currently researching.

That was changed pre-PTW.

[Aqualung71]

Originally posted by senorFrito
Once you have nabbed the two extra techs, set your research back to as high as needed, and continue researching the tech you were origianlly. There is no point in nabbing the tech you were origionally researching b/c you already have science points allocated to it.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that when you set research to zero for a full turn or change techs, you lose all the beakers that had accumulated up to date on your current research project and must start again.

[Krill]

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that when you set research to zero for a full turn or change techs, you lose all the beakers that had accumulated up to date on your current research project and must start again.

Yes, you lose all of the research if you end the turn when you select a different tech, and No, you don't lose the research if you research @ 0%

[Aqualung71]

You learn something new every day here, don't you. Thanks Krill.

In any case, senorFrito's strategy is non-optimal since by changing techs right before ToE then swapping back you will lose all the beakers up to that point. In such cases, I usually set my research to zero as soon as I know that I won't be able to squeeze another tech in before I get ToE completed, which usually gives about 6 turns of fantastic cashflow.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Aqualung71
In any case, senorFrito's strategy is non-optimal since by changing techs right before ToE then swapping back you will lose all the beakers up to that point. In such cases, I usually set my research to zero as soon as I know that I won't be able to squeeze another tech in before I get ToE completed, which usually gives about 6 turns of fantastic cashflow.

In non-tight races for the Theory of Evolution you could also slow down your production on the Wonder in order to research another tech before its completion. This puts you even further ahead in the tech race because the ones you get for free will typically cost more (having researched the prerequisite the hard way).

[Mr Justice]

i useually time the building of TOE so that i complete reaserching a Tech the turn before i compete TOE. its easy enough to reduce the production by irrigating mined grass tiles and not working on hills.

[Aqualung71]

Originally posted by Dominae

In non-tight races for the Theory of Evolution you could also slow down your production on the Wonder in order to research another tech before its completion. This puts you even further ahead in the tech race because the ones you get for free will typically cost more (having researched the prerequisite the hard way).

Absolutely. Yes, that's the other alternative.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Smiley
Unless for some reason you really need Democracy, maybe in a large empire.

hi ,

democraZy is the gov when it comes to high production and money , ..... the best to control your civ and to go to war with , ....

have a nice day

[charliechizel]

for the theory of evolution, you can actually time it so you finish one tech the same turn as finishing the wonder. The tech will finish first, then after the wonder you get 2 totally free techs without slowing down. I was sketched the first time i tried this but believe me, I do it every time now. Just be sure the turn before that none of your cities are going to go into anarchy, which could slow down the tech and waste a lot of reserach.

[CyberChrist]

As a Seafaring player I often go for a super science city with Colossus, Copernicus, Newtons and Shakespears(remember Shakespears allow for 13+ size cities before Hospitals come around - in Conquest anyway).

Even with an empire of 20+ cities it often generates 1/3 the science of my entire civ (especially if I get lucky and start on rivers and/or get a few trade resources in range as well).

While there are some free techs hidden in the Great Library it tends to make you shy away from Education asap. This means getting Universities later which in turn actually means getting later techs a bit slower.

In the end it all depends on what type of game you play; world size, world shape, start position, number of opponents, difficulty level, your play style(warmonger, builder or something in between) and last but not least playing multiplayer changes everything (ie. I almost never go for super science city in multiplayer).