Am I the only one that thinks Civ 3 is better than Civ 2?

[MattHiggs]

There is a lot of people moaning about the bugs. Most of the bugs aer ones that noly the player can exploit so if you don't want to exploit them don't.

It seems people want Civ 3 to be the perfect game, and it won't be as everybody's ideas of the perfect game are different.

Maybe this is just a rant of an old civver but I beleive Civ 3 is a great improvement.

[Robert Plomp]

of course it's better.
I won't play any civ2 anymore (pherhaps once in a while like I do with civ1, just to get that old feeling again )

civ3 has everything civ2 had, except firepower and the sentry option. Oh well..... I like the new combat system ! unpredictable like a war should be !

[MattHiggs]

I know it's much more challenging I used to be able to win uite easily on Civ1 and Civ2 on Deity level. In Civ 3, now I am learning the game. I find it quite difficult to beat the AI on Warlord.

I think the game is perfect as it is. All this moaning about Air units is a load of dangly bits. Sure the air units should be able to sink boats, well maybe specialist air units should. But not ground units. Take Afghanistan for example, air units could only weaken them. But it's the ground units that are required if any real damage wants to be inflicted.

[jbavon]

I agree I think CivIII is the best so far. And I don't consider civ2 all that great either, its more like civ1.1


As for changes:

I just wanna see Fighters and Bombers that can sink ships, and thats pretty much it.

[Crom]

You're right, Civ III is the best game I've played for ages.

Just wish I could pick specific starting points for all the Civs.

[dannyevilcat]

Civ3 IS better than Civ2. Without question IMO. Although it ain't really "innovative" (many of the new features I've seen in other strategy games), having these new features combined with what is still good ole Civ is damn sweet.

I really hated the AI in Civ2 after a while. And I mean HATE! Especially in scenarios where europeans would sneak attack china with nukes, and have no real objectives or strategies.

NOT ON TOPIC BUT I have a question, though. Since there's this air power bug, I haven't bothered to play that far yet, I must know-- do they still go all crazy with nuclear weapons? Because unlike most warmongers, I can't stand the things, and yet I don't wanna disable them, because heck, they ARE the ultimate weapon. I just hope they are at least sorta responsible with them... have a real deterrent factor. (even though I do hear they got watered down)

[raiseupx]

i think civ 3 is an excellent game, far better than civ 2 ever could hope to be, the beauty about civ games is being able to be the leader of your own civilization and make history as you see fit. and civ3 is by far more realistic than any other civs.

[MattHiggs]

Since there's this air power bug

Explain further?

[Malleus Dei]

I am having issues with Civ 3.

Most of them have to do with the games rigidity - the fixed rules and seups and the inability to customize the game.

Right now I don't like it nearly as much as I liked Civ 2 when I was the same amount of time into each game.

Time will tell. But I don't think that Civ3 will pass the test of time unless Firaxis gets off their ass and does a better job than they have so far.

And I don't think that they either listen to or care much about what we think.

[randomturn]

Civ 3 will be better. At the moment, some things are way better: the AI (in general), the graphics, and the maps to name a few. Some things are -- for the moment -- inferior: mod/scenario tools are almost totally absent, combat has been much documented and needs some tweaking, wonders are unbalanced, play balance in general (including the game play "forces" that tend to force your games to be similar to one another). These things are all fixable, and I am confident that the good people at firaxis will make Civ3 as good as it can be, which is very very good. After all, it took a few years, multiple patches, and 2 expansion packs to make Civ2 as play-balanced and mod-friendly as it was.

[Th0mas]

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
....Right now I don't like it nearly as much as I liked Civ 2 when I was the same amount of time into each game.....

Most of the rows in the general forum are between people with different perspectives about what CIV as a genre should be.

I think it is about 'suspension of disbelief' if you are the type of person who's perception of CIV is of a Strategic game with tactical elements your opinions of CIV III will vary from someone who views CIV as a Tactical game with Strategic elements.

For example the former would prefer CIV III's combat model and the latter CIV II's combat model. Modern units losing to ancient units can be explained way relatively easily from a strategic perspective, but from a tactical perspective this is certainly not the case.

Tank losing to spearman on plains:

Tactical -----> "NO WAY, spears would just bounce off, the mounted machine guns would decimate the spearman formation"

Strategic -----> "War is attrition, more troops/vehicles die/destroyed through malnutrition, disease, Cold, poor communication, poor leadership etc than by actual fighting, The Tank could have run out of fuel supplies as happened to Rommel"

Neither perspective is wrong..personally the strategic perspective IMO is the correct one for CIV III. I'm enjoying myself

Personally I am getting that old CIV I feeling playing CIV III, something that did not happen with CIV II(didn't stop me playing it over Civ I though).

....or SMAC....maybe I just prefer the non-brian Reynolds versions ?

[MattHiggs]

Yeah that's it. I get that Civ I feeling when playing Civ 3!

It must be good!

[MisterMuppet]

Civ3 is certainly a better game than Civ2. It is also a very good game in its own right. Given enough time it came become a great game.

[Th0mas]

Originally posted by MattHiggs
Yeah that's it. I get that Civ I feeling when playing Civ 3!

It must be good!

I Just could never really get the same connection to CIV II, don't get me wrong I really enjoyed playing it..But not like CIV I.

It got worse with SMAC and SMACX, I think I only ever completed one game. This was particularly odd as I used to love reading all the forum posts about it (especially Vel's guides). I would then get a rush of excitement, go home, install SMAC and then....3-4 hours later lose interest

..this was especially true if I had to take more than a 2 day break away from a SMAC game - I just couldn't maintain the connection.

THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED WITH CIV III....yet

[Th0mas]

Originally posted by MisterMuppet
Civ3 is certainly a better game than Civ2. It is also a very good game in its own right. Given enough time it came become a great game.

...Always room for improvement

[Morganstern]

Civ 3 is unquestionably better than Civ 2, notwithstanding the whiners. One hopes that they are merely comparing the real Civ 3 to the one in their dreams, but one cannot be certain of that. The Combat model is superior, and I don't miss the rigid ZOC model one bit. The player is given considerably more latitude in choosing strategies, or sub-strategies. The cartoonish events (Global warming converts the entire globe) are ameliorated or eliminated altogether. The game isn't perfect, and I haven't completely "warmed up" to it as I have Civ 2 during the past several years, but I expect to.

[Frito]

Civ3 is better then Civ2 now, and when some bugs are patched it will be a lot better then Civ2. It seems like most people only talk about what they don't like about the game and never about whats good in it. Its nice to see a more positive thread.

[xane]

The "winning formulae" was established with Civ1, and I feel it has been maintained through to Civ2 and Civ3. I have to agree many people argue from a standpoint that Civ should be a different genre.

The problem is Civ and all its variations are a genre in their own right, the closest a non-Civ game has come to joining is something like Populus.

I like Civ3, I've only played a few games on it but enough to know I will not be going back to Civ2. Pity because I wanted to revisit "Conflicts" again, now I'm not so sure

[Stuie]

Originally posted by MattHiggs
I beleive Civ 3 is a great improvement.

Civ3 is an awesome game, and will only get better with the forthcoming patch. The whiners are just upset that their "vision" of civ was not met; guess they think they should replace Sid Meier or something. I also find it amazing how people can completely distort the impact of what few bugs there are. The game is quite playable and enjoyable as is; the air interception bug is a minor inconvenience in my games, and no other "bug" comes anywhere near to seriously impacting play.

I say, "Nice job Firaxis."

[Th0mas]

Originally posted by Stuie


Civ3 is an awesome game, and will only get better with the forthcoming patch. The whiners are just upset that their "vision" of civ was not met; guess they think they should replace Sid Meier or something. I also find it amazing how people can completely distort the impact of what few bugs there are. The game is quite playable and enjoyable as is; the air interception bug is a minor inconvenience in my games, and no other "bug" comes anywhere near to seriously impacting play.

I say, "Nice job Firaxis."

here here

I can understand peoples frustrations, however sometimes I think they protest to much ...

As a community we should keep things in perspective and celebrate that Fraxis have delivered a fantastic game.

Ooooo I'm getting a warm feeling all over

[Raleigh]

I love Civ3 and it is definitely much improved over Civ 2 overall, but I feel the game (1) is definitely a step backwards in some ways (2) doesn't have the Sid Meier touch for detail (3) inexplicably didn't build on many features of predecessors.

1. IMHO, the combat system, although interesting in some new ways definitely took a step backwards with respect to modern and ancient units. This may sound silly, but perhaps the major innovation I was looking for in this game was an elimination of the battleship/phalanx problem. Well, ok, they did solve this but not the battleship/caravel problem or tank/hoplite problem. The game designers made a conscious decision to do this for "game balance" which is their right, but I feel like they made a very wrong decision.

2. How about the wonder movies? Their excuse that they disrupted the game is so lame it sounds like a bald faced lie, since they give you pictures that disrupt the game anyway. Those movies provide the warm and fuzzy feelings that give players true loyalty to a game. The fact that the wonder pictures don't even tell you what they do is also disturbing. Also, the various interface gaffes are inexplicable. The inability to sort cities and keep them sorted. The ability to access civlopedia everywhere except where it is most needed at the building que, etc. Where was sid meier? Taking his Elvis picture?

3. How about SMAC's ability to look at terrain improvements as well terrain? I could go either way on unit customization, but sentry and patrol, why not? Etc.

[GodSpawn]

Yup, I love it too. The dark circles under my eyes will attest to that...

[Trifna]

Well it's a minority that thinks that Civ II is better, but I still think that Civ III has somuch more potential... Hope Firaxis' patch will finish this beta, cuz letting Civ III to a beta state would be seriously not very correct.

[jbavon]

Originally posted by Raleigh
2. How about the wonder movies? Their excuse that they disrupted the game is so lame it sounds like a bald faced lie, since they give you pictures that disrupt the game anyway. Those movies provide the warm and fuzzy feelings that give players true loyalty to a game. The fact that the wonder pictures don't even tell you what they do is also disturbing. Also, the various interface gaffes are inexplicable. The inability to sort cities and keep them sorted. The ability to access civlopedia everywhere except where it is most needed at the building que, etc. Where was sid meier? Taking his Elvis picture?

I don't mind people being annoyed with combat figures and the like, those can be changed, what I do mind is complaining that is by some standards lame.

For example the Wonder thing: You really have a problem with the Wonder-"movie" not showing what it does? How about closing the window, and letting the advisor give you the pop-up where it says "X completed Great Library" ... and you can click the Great Library to see its benefits.

Also, theres a mod out there that puts the info into the wonder movie.

Also, since when have wonder movies been all that fantastic in civ? I actually much prefer the Civ3 way of doing it. It has atmosphere.


But lets not start a huge discussion over something that is clearly only a matter of patience, and personal opinion.

[Sabre2th]

Civ3 is by far the best civ game ever. The only problem I'm having is a couple of minor bugs.

[Zylka]

Yep, it's definitely better than number 2. Still not as top notch as civ2 was in its time.

[eRAZOR]

Yes

[raiseupx]

i think certain people just like to whine, period

[Th0mas]

Originally posted by Zylka
Yep, it's definitely better than number 2. Still not as top notch as civ2 was in its time.

...That is true if CIV II was your first civilisation game...

personnally I think CIV III is not as top notch as Civ1 in its time (but that's expected - Civ1 being genre creating) but is significantly better than Civ II comparitively.

Civ II was an improvement on CIV I and well worth the amount of time and money I spent on all it's versions.

I think the changes to the AI in CIV III and the addition of Trade, Culture and the effect of Corruption has really improved the whole Civ game concept ... I am more fully immersed in CIV III than I ever was with CIV 2.

but that is a personal opinion...

In summary I think the whole Civilisation genre is a fantastic gaming concept, and your introduction to it (CIV I, CIV II, CIV II MPG, CTP, CTP II and SMAC) will frame your perception for all the new iterations. I cetainly believe this has been partially responsible for the level of friction on these forums.

[Plumbean]

Civ III is much better than Civ II it just takes time to get the game where we all want it. You are not going to make every one happy but I was blown away with the Improvements