Comments and Questions

JohnE · November 29, 2001, 13:13

This is my first post, but I have been playing Civilization since 1989. But to give you an idea of how I have done, I have won one game on Chieftain, huge world, six Civs by Culture. I am in the middle of a Warlord level game on a standard world with six Civs. I have some comments and questions for people.

This game is definitely better than Civilization II, but there are some things I don't like.

It seems impossible to speed up the construction of Wonders at all, except through "pre-building." This can make Wonder construction very problematic, as whatever Civ has the tech lead and one high-production city gets most of the Wonders.

Corruption is horrendous. It seems to me that conquering the world becomes very difficult once you reach the Industrial Age, because there are just too many cities out there.

Diplomacy is much better, but there are still some confusing things. The AI always ask for more than it gets when it comes to trading luxury or strategic resources. I also wish it were possible to demand that one AI civ make peace with another AI civ. Likewise, the AI asks for an arm and a leg for an MPP when it has three cities, I have 30, and the AI's main enemy has 20 cities.

So, here are my questions:

1. Does anyone know why the strategy guide says you need 80,000 culture points to win by culture? I am fairly certain it is really 100,000.

2. What are some useable strategies for speeding the construction of Wonders?

3. If I lumberjack near a city building a Wonder, but get no message that ten shields were added to any city, what happened?

4. What triggers UN votes?

ICMB · November 29, 2001, 13:49

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Originally posted by JohnE

1. Does anyone know why the strategy guide says you need 80,000 culture points to win by culture? I am fairly certain it is really 100,000.

It is 100K. The guide probably is incorrect because it was written while the game was still in development and it likely changed in the late stages.

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2. What are some useable strategies for speeding the construction of Wonders?

A leader can forcebuild a Wonder in a single turn. Besides that, there is no way to hurry a Wonder or Palace, so you need to just pre-build (by building some other large thing that won't complete before the wonder-tech is available).

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3. If I lumberjack near a city building a Wonder, but get no message that ten shields were added to any city, what happened?

You get nothing for the lumber, as you can't hurry the production of Wonders.

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4. What triggers UN votes?

Building the United Nations wonder. Commonly viewed as the least impressive victory condition, many people disable this one.

- ICMB

JohnE · November 29, 2001, 14:22

I thought the culture change might have been for that reason.

As regards the diplomatic victory, I would think it would be more impressive than the histographic, but I haven't played many games.

It's annoying that lumberjacking near a Wonder-building city is completely ineffective. I wish the game would transfer those shields to some other city.

Thanks for your prompt response!

Purple · November 30, 2001, 00:23

I'd like to know whether clearing a forest will yield shields to a city if the forest is outside it's fat-X 21-tile area. And where do the shields go if the forest is equidistant from two cities?

Sevorak · November 30, 2001, 02:40

A Cultural victory is either 20,000 culture points in one city or a civilization worth 100,000 and more than twice that of any other civilization on the planet.

Don't worry about Wonders much, they're not too impressive any more. Just start early in a high production city, and meanwhile prebuild Palaces and fight to get Leaders, if you really want wonders that badly.

-Sev

MarshalN · November 30, 2001, 10:55

Yup, as a Civ2 veteran I complained about the crappy wonder building model too.. until I figured that the wonders themselves, for the most part, suck. You don't have the Michelangelo Chapel that will just make your civ the best in the world anymore.... most of the wonders are marginally worth the shields, and some are definitely not.

Aurochs · November 30, 2001, 11:56

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Originally posted by JohnE
Corruption is horrendous. It seems to me that conquering the world becomes very difficult once you reach the Industrial Age, because there are just too many cities out there.

Conquering it's not too difficult... Making it efficient and productive, now that's the hard part.

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Diplomacy is much better, but there are still some confusing things. The AI always ask for more than it gets when it comes to trading luxury or strategic resources.

You can often talk it down by switching the deals around.

If you ask for...say, Gems, the AI might want your world map, a new tech, and 250 gold for them. If you then clear the table and ask what they'd give for just the new tech, they might offer you the Gems, their World Map, and 120 Gold.

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Likewise, the AI asks for an arm and a leg for an MPP when it has three cities, I have 30, and the AI's main enemy has 20 cities.

Maybe the AI didn't want an MPP because they were afraid it would suck them into a war their little 3-city empire couldn't afford to fight. Even if they were already fighting, they might've been trying to get a peace settlement, which the MPP would delay 20 turns. Dunno, I've never tried to get a weaker civ to protect me.

JohnE · November 30, 2001, 18:46

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Originally posted by Aurochs

Maybe the AI didn't want an MPP because they were afraid it would suck them into a war their little 3-city empire couldn't afford to fight. Even if they were already fighting, they might've been trying to get a peace settlement, which the MPP would delay 20 turns. Dunno, I've never tried to get a weaker civ to protect me.

Maybe you're right, but I wanted to protect them, not the other way around.

Libertarian · December 2, 2001, 08:48

I wasn't sure where to put this. I guess this is as good a place as any, since leaders were mentioned for rushing wonders.

A leader will rush any improvement, even when the city is in revolt or civil disorder. An important point when you're at war and producing leaders near newly captured cities.

Pyrodrew · December 2, 2001, 15:51

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Originally posted by JohnE
Maybe you're right, but I wanted to protect them, not the other way around.

The AI doesn't know that for sure. It's protecting itself from the worst-case scenario... that's smart. It's better that the AI be too conservative rather than too trusting.

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The AI always ask for more than it gets when it comes to trading luxury or strategic resources.

Do a search on this explaining it but a 1 for 1 resource trade is NOT fair to a Civ who has only 10 cities compared to another which has 30 cities... among other possibilities & reasons.

Libertarian · December 2, 2001, 17:25

And actually, it's not true anyway. I often get the upper hand in negotiations, particularly when I've begun from a position of strength. It's not unlike real business negotiations.

vmxa1 · December 2, 2001, 22:33

The trades are dependant upon your percieved status. If you just whipped them they are inclinded to offer more. I do feel that in the main the AI miss reads its postion because it thinks having a lot of troops and cities makes it stronger. It does this even when you are rank first. It does not consider that those cities are not as good as yours or those troops are inferior. It is very maddening to have the advisor say they will be insulted, when you offer me peace for peace plus tech? I should give them stuff when I just whipped them?

CobaltNova · December 3, 2001, 22:15

If you just whippped them, take your tanks and stomp them into the ground, then push one all you troops into their borders and demand their lives for a peace treaty, if it is after the ancient times get at least half of their worth, if they don't like it keep clobbering them until they are ready to sell their soul for you. Then back off and get tribute for them every 20 turns when they ask for it. If they don't then push a couple cities back. Don't raze cities-save them for bargaining with the AI or some other AI: they like cities a lot. Also remeber that per turn gold is valued much less than one-shot gold. (20 turns of 1 gold a turn is worth less than 20 lump-sum gold, to the AI). Just my expieriences.