Idea for a Wonder of the World

[Christantine]

I have a idea for a wonder of the world called Pax Romana. The Pax Romana would double your science output, your luxury output and your shield production. Also you would get the same benifits of the Great Wall. The down part of this is that it would only last for 200 years (much like the actual Pax Romana). Send feedback!

[Christantine]

I made a mistake on the proposal! I meant to put, The Pax Romana would multiply your science output, your luxury output and your shield production by 50%. Sorry about that!

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I came, I saw, I conquered...my allies!!

Could you explain what the Pax Romana is/was. (I assume something in Rome) but I never heard of it. Sounds interesting...

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

[Youngsun]

OrangeSfwr

Pax X means that peace and prosperity maintained by the force/might of X. So Pax Romana means the peace and prosperity maintained by the might of Roman empire.

"Pax Romana" is one of Roman achievements not a wonder. We now live in the world that is under the cover of "Pax Americana". Germany once tried to establish "Pax Germana" in Europe and Japan tried "Pax Japonica" in Asia during WWII but both of them failed.

Christantine

What about Colesseum as a wonder rather than Pax Romana for a Roman wonder? While you are conducting military campaigne under Republic, there should be no war discontent as long as you have Colesseum wonder.

[Christantine]

quote: "Pax Romana" is one of Roman achievements not a wonder.

I understand what you are saying but it is not uncommon that achievements are used for Wonders of the World. Some Are:

King Richard's Crusade
Magellans Expedition
Darwin's Voyage
Women's Suffrage
Manhattan Project
Apollo Program

There isn't any specific building for any of these except museums. (Do you really think there is a "Bomb" siting on a monolith in the middle of town.) . I don't see the harm in having another achievement as a WoW.


[This message has been edited by Christantine (edited May 12, 2000).]

[Christantine]

I do agree with you, Youngson, that the Colesseum should be a Wonder for the Romans, but maybe each civ should have a materal wonder (Building or something written down) and a achievement. The colesseum, I think, should be replaced with an amphi-theatre.

[Steve Clark]

It sounds like an Ancient wonder, thus for 200 years, it would only last, what, 4-10 turns?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'd rather have the Colisseum as a wonder instead of Pax Romana.

[Az]

hey hey . I think I've got an Idea for a "hebrew" wonder . as an Israeli may I ask for a wonder called the Great Temple . like the temple of Jerusalem , destroyed by the Romans. it will act as a temple in each city and double the city's Luxury output. and it's effects will expire when ....
well lets say the first time the city is conquered by another CIV . how about that ? folks if you have ideas for maternal WoW for your Civs plz post !

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Enslave the enemy .

[Christantine]

Steve Clark

I would hope that in Civ III that the turns would have shorter time increments than now. But you are right so maybe the Effects could last longer. (Suggestions???)

Dalgetti

Great idea, but maybe instead of doubling the luxury rate for the city maybe it should make one person happy in each of your cities.

Keep those ideas rollin' in!

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I came, I saw, I conquered...my allies!!

[Youngsun]

Christantine

Haha! I knew it! you would bring those examples of "Magellans Expedition" or
"Darwin's Voyage" to your next reply.

Although they are achivements not a wonder, they are all unique and happened only once in history and hasn't been repeated by others(even if repeated with lesser significance) I mean if some people do cross the Pacific, they don't become as great as Magellan or if China does conduct experiments thousands times with its nukes, its achivement can not equal to that of very first atomic bomb experiements in Nevada desert.

Things like "Pax Romana" can happen any time at now and future and I rather say the significance of it even increased(Pax Americana)which reduce the legitimacy of Pax Romana as a wonder but a achivement.

But the Colesseum is unique and very Roman indeed and no where it can be found but only in Rome. Sorry to disappoint you but I really have to disagree on this Christantine. but you are right the city improvement should be called ampi-theatre and later stadium(football perhaps?)so the Colesseum can be a wonder.

[This message has been edited by Youngsun (edited May 13, 2000).]

[Par4]

I support the Colesseum. The colesseum could increase happiness and support of war efforts. The Pax Romana was strictly Rome kicking the crap out of everyone near them for a hundred or so years so they quit for a couple hundred years and Rome had time to increase industy, science, culture, domestic stuff. Maybe this could be achieved by no wars for 500 years or something, think a golden age in SMAC except nation wide. Pax X would last until any attack whether it be terrorist, convential, or spy.

X=Nation name in latin

*every says "yes yes good idea Par just like in SMAC except nation wide, you are such a genius"*

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I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse

[Az]

I guess this together with "Battle","nuclear threat" and "units and Democracy" is becoming one of my favorite threads in here . par4 = its pretty true . it was just that way . but Coliseum ? nop . I guess that there must be a different wonder that will allow to maintain a great military ,and be a Republic. any thoughts ?

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Enslave the enemy .

[Stuff2]

Pax romana...

I like it. ;-)

[Youngsun]

Christantine

Do you want whether "Pax Romana" built by accumulation of shields or achieve it by your own action(maintaining peace for a long time by your military might)as suggested by Par4 so special bonus for your overall civ score can be given?

If you want the latter I would never disagree with you on this but building things like "Pax Romana" by accumulation of shields ,which might have been used for your own military build up to keep the balance of power in the region, which you belong to, doesn't seem right.

I believe "Pax-country name in Latin" should be earned by yourself by contributing your effort to build/maintain your military muscle enough to keep regional peace and prevent any possible invasion which might have been occured if you did not have enough military power. Just imagine that you have small and petty size of army holding your empire and suddenly after the completion of building "Pax X" and peace can be assured? That's very very weird I say.

But "Athenian Naval Academy" is good suggestion Christantine and I support the idea and the bonus of having it is reasonable as you suggested. Keep up the good work!

Dalgetti

I think you must be angry with me because I did not reply to your "Great temple" idea sorry about that mate!

I think Great Temple's effect should be similar to that of "Hanging Garden" or "Oracle" by reducing people's discontent through religious zeal. Any other Hebrew wonder would be welcome if you explain in detail.
[This message has been edited by Youngsun (edited May 14, 2000).]

[Christantine]

Par4

I haven't played SMAC in almost a year so I forgot about that. So now that that idea is squashed someone have another idea?

I have one called Athenian Naval Academy. This would ensure that all of your sea units that use SAILS as propulsion are veterans when built and the tirieme would get a +1 movement bonus. This would be made avalable with Map Making and be obesolite when someone builds Magellan's Expedition.

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I came, I saw, I conquered...my allies!!

[Az]

quote: Originally posted by Youngsun on 05-14-2000 12:28 AM Dalgetti I think you must be angry with me because I did not reply to your "Great temple" idea sorry about that mate! I think Great Temple's effect should be similar to that of "Hanging Garden" or "Oracle" by reducing people's discontent through religious zeal. Any other Hebrew wonder would be welcome if you explain in detail. [This message has been edited by Youngsun (edited May 14, 2000).]

well ... I am not upset . maybe you had no time to answer ... .
anyway ... OK ! now that's what I call one
WoW : the Bible . yes I know . about 2 billion believe in it . but the people to become the first to "invent" it were the Hebrews like myself . anyway if you disagree just post it

well ... it's effects are : mostly of happiness :
-doubles the effects of temples
-gives -20% shields , because of various religous laws .
-gives +10% food . in the bible is included the idea of letting the soil to rest for a year each 7 years . a thing that ensures mineral rich soils .
-10% of the population become happy from content .

any more suggestions?


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Enslave the enemy .

i don't think any WoW should have negative effects, small as they may be. But I like the Bible idea Not sure if it should be a WoW or something else...

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

[Christantine]

Dalgetti

I like the idea about the Bible but I have some problems about it. The Bible was not the only "holy book" ever written (ex. the Koran). Maybe it could be a "technology" that you discover instead of it being something you build. Maybe each culture could discover its own holy scripts. Please don't be offended. Instead of a Bible wonder you could have the Ark of the Covenent

OrangeSfwr

I must disagree with your idea that wonders should not cause negitive effects. One BIG example is the Manhattan Project. Many wonders would, in real life, cause bad things to happen.

Youngsun

I think I have figured out a solution to the Pax "X" problem. A Pax "X" would start when your peace points reach +100 on your score. Then your science, luxury and shield output would be doubled and you would get the benifits of the Hanging Gardens. You would also be required to be at Peace or above terms with every known civilization. Pax "X" would be ended if:

1) You declared war aganst someone.
2) You changed governments to Communism, Monarchy or Despotism.
3) A city has been in civil disorder for more than 2 turns.
4) A city has no Happy people.
If anyone wants to still debate this please go to my new topic on only Pax "X".

I made a mistake in my Athenian Naval Academy idea. It should become defunct with the discovery of the steam engine. (Or whatever tech lets you build the ironclad.)


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I came, I saw, I conquered...my allies!!

quote: Originally posted by Christantine on 05-14-2000 03:51 PM OrangeSfwr I must disagree with your idea that wonders should not cause negitive effects. One BIG example is the Manhattan Project. Many wonders would, in real life, cause bad things to happen.

Haha, when I re-read what I wrote I knew you would mention the m-project...GMTA

I realize what you are saying, and in a way I agree. But the M-project doesn't directly affect something in a negative way, and it can be used for good. It indirectly affects your civ in a negative way because you're allowing nuke's to be produced. Your suggestion was different, it directly affected your Civ in a negative way, that's the only reason I felt unsure about it when I first read it. By the way, I also posted on your new PaxX thread.


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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

[Youngsun]

I'm really glad Pax "X" turned out to be that way. phew

The Bible sounds good and this suggestion led Christantine's "holy book" idea for each major culture such as the Koran for Islams or Buddhist holy scripts for Orientals. But I think we have to make some compromise with
"Polythesim" and "Monotheism" tech. which currently avaiable in the game. But anyway the Bible is unique and it's impact to people is greatest among any other holy scripts in terms of wide spreadness and general acceptance.


[This message has been edited by Youngsun (edited May 15, 2000).]

[Az]

quote: Originally posted by Christantine on 05-14-2000 03:51 PM Dalgetti I like the idea about the Bible but I have some problems about it. The Bible was not the only "holy book" ever written (ex. the Koran). Maybe it could be a "technology" that you discover instead of it being something you build. Maybe each culture could discover its own holy scripts. Please don't be offended. Instead of a Bible wonder you could have the Ark of the Covenent

not I am not offended !
I am actually quite imressed . no just a joke . but it sounds like a nice idea . like .... it's effects : acts as a courthouse in each city . expires with the emancipation pact. ( a WoW makes a tech expire .yep . that sounds weird ).

quote: I think I have figured out a solution to the Pax "X" problem. A Pax "X" would start when your peace points reach +100 on your score. Then your science, luxury and shield output would be doubled and you would get the benifits of the Hanging Gardens. You would also be required to be at Peace or above terms with every known civilization. Pax "X" would be ended if: 1) You declared war aganst someone. 2) You changed governments to Communism, Monarchy or Despotism. 3) A city has been in civil disorder for more than 2 turns. 4) A city has no Happy people. If anyone wants to still debate this please go to my new topic on only Pax "X".

GREAT SOLUTION ! JUST GREAT ! WOW !

P.S.
plz tell me when will it stop ?
Eiffel Tower - Steam Engine ?????
not Steel ? that would make so much more sence ..,

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Enslave the enemy .

[Harel]

Well, I think that Pax Romana should be considered a golden age effect. You get it when your nation prosper, right?

Beside, I must use a golden role that I myself said it ( which is, in fact, the only mention I got in the entire wonder summary ): "The rules to define a wonder are, that is atleat 10% of the people don't have a clue on what you are talking about, it's probably not a wonder".
Which means, that if even 10% of the people never heard of it, it not that famous. Everyone heard about Darwin, about the pyramids, about the Apollo program. How many people know the term Pax Romana? I know I didn't, and I have quite an extensive background in history. Wonders should be KNOWN.

Dalgetti, the great temple is a good idea, however, I truly disagree with the bible. The bible can't be considerd a wonder in any case: it's not a book, it's a collection of several, it was not built/written in the same time or the same authors, and it's not the only holy book around.
Beside, it's too christian/jewish toward, so it's offensive.
Other points about the bible: first off, it's only a collection of the SURVIVING books, not the holiest or most important one's.
In addition, the bible we know today was composed in 984 AD which I think is a bit too late for what you plan.
[This message has been edited by Harel (edited May 15, 2000).]

[Az]

harel : I actually meant to have the holy book as a tech to discover by a civ . each civ has it's own book . like the Rayamana. Koran etc . well . maybe I am wrong . forget about all that Idea . now when I thought about it it could cause so much trouble ... forget it .

Everybody :
Post your own WoW !

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Enslave the enemy .

[Christantine]

Please someone post a NEW idea.

I have a idea called Mount Rushmore. This would be avalable with Explosives and it would never expire. It would be the modern counterpart to the Collossus and it would also make one person in its city happy.

Another idea is the Brooklyn Bridge. It would be avalable with the Automobile and it would count as a Superhighway in all of your cities.

A third idea is Wall Street Stock Exchange. It would be avalable with Economics and it would count as a stock exchange in every city and also double the city it is built in's luxury output.

I also think that King Richard's Crusade should not double the cities shield output but maybe decreases unhappiness in a city because of a unit away by 1.

That is my latest batch of ideas. Now make some of your own!!!

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I came, I saw, I conquered...my allies!!

Ok I think we're getting way outta hand with what a wonder of the world is. The only one I can see as partially ok is Wall St.

But Mt. Rushmore? I don't see that as a wonder at all. And Brooklyn Bridge? How would that create a superhighway in every city. And what about new cities, little cities? Try to stay historical with the Wonders.

I do have an idea though...

I would replace Hoover Dam with "Three gorges dam" (Yangtze River - China, estimated completion 2014)

Going to be the largest manmade dam ever. Creates a giant resivior in mid china causing the relocation of over 2 million people. Anyone hear of this? I think this should replace Hoover Dam because Hoover Dam, although very important, is no where near as Ginormous as the Yangtze River Dam (Three Gorges Dam).

I think it should reduce factory/manufacturing polluition by half. (In real life, by 20% but that's not very good in the game)

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

[Christantine]

Mt. Rushmore is four giant faces carved into a mountain. It was made with turn-of-the-century steam drills. Now I don't know a family who wouldn't consider it a stop if they are going cross country in a Winnobago. So I don't see the problem with that.

Get rid of the bridge because superhighways weren't built until the '60s (or '50s) but there is a problem with the Three Gorges Dam.

quote: Try to stay historical with the Wonders.

Now compared to every other wonder the 3G Dam is somewhat related to the Cure for Cancer (Which I think is a bad wonder because...) because it hasn't been made yet. The 3G Dam could burst on its first operational day. There might be no cure or a cure that only works for a little while before becomming immune. Anyway the majority of Americans, which is also the most likely the majority of Civ II players (No offence people who own Civ II and live in other countries) can relate to a Hoover Dam but not a Three Gorges Dam. Also you said that the dam will cause people to pack up and leave...

quote: over 2 million people

...wouldn't that mean that 2 million people have to leave the city. No offence but that idea has some holes in it. (No pun intended)

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I came, I saw, I conquered...my allies!!

quote: Originally posted by Christantine on 05-19-2000 06:56 AM Mt. Rushmore is four giant faces carved into a mountain. It was made with turn-of-the-century steam drills. Now I don't know a family who wouldn't consider it a stop if they are going cross country in a Winnobago. So I don't see the problem with that.

I know what Mt. Rushmore is. But what did it REALLY do for America. It's a landmark, people visit it. It doesn't dramatically increase trade (except for a few postcards) and it doesn't bring money, it doesn't bring happiness, it doesn't bring knowledge or unit improvement or even luxury. That's why I don't see it as a wonder. But you could always come to the WoW thread I started and post it as an idea. See if anyone else sees it your way.

quote: Originally posted by Christantine on 05-19-2000 06:56 AM ...wouldn't that mean that 2 million people have to leave the city. No offence but that idea has some holes in it. (No pun intended)

No

FOA: It isn't being Built on a city, it's being built by China on the Yangtze. The place it is being built is a very very very rural area. That is not the area that is urban and will have to move.

The River will rise once the Dam is in place burying many historic villages along the river. The three gorges will no longer exist above water. An area either before or after the three Gorges is very low in relation to the gorges and a new river will flow down the side of a hill causing a gigantic Resivior to be formed next to (the north I believe) of the Yangtze River. This valley is where the Urban Area is.

I see your point about the Cure for Cancer, and whenever I play it is usually built around the mid 1800s, which I find rather odd. But I feel sometimes future techs do need to exist in the game. As far as the 3GD goes, I agree with you that the Hoover Dam has more signifigance and that the 3GD isn't even around yet and could have failures. So I'm not neccesarily PUSHING for the 3GD. I was merely suggesting it.

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~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~

[This message has been edited by OrangeSfwr (edited May 19, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by OrangeSfwr (edited May 19, 2000).]