v1.16f: Issues? Bugs? This is the thread

[gillskill]

someone else reported this with Iron. I discovered steam power and my trade advisor says I have 1 coal somewhere. I used ctrl-shft-m and could not find the coal supposedly in my borders anywhere! but I still have it in my city boxes and can build railroads and stuff.

The Indians attacked me with war-elephants and I lost a city with iron and so was unable to produce knights. My fault, I thought, and carried on producing chariots, to no great effect. Many years into the war I then discover I have another iron resource (not just discovered). It was connected up but not showing in the city info boxes. I had to pillage the square and relay my roads and hey presto.

[Peets]

I put some settlers on ctrl+n then they will connect cities and resoruces

[cheerful]

I have about 20 cities on a standard map. In the middle age, my best builder produces 20+ shields per turn. It takes about 20 turns to build a great wonder in that city. But it takes about 100 turns to build palace. I can understand the attempt to make it difficult to do "palace bouncing". But making it so expensive is ridiculous. My palace is determined by the random start, not where I wanted, at the begining of the game. And I don't want empire that is too small -- difficult to beat AI's advantage.

I would say making it as expensive as the wonder in that age is a good measurement. 5 times that is NOT, making relocating impossible without leader.

[Dr. K.]

I am going to be judgemental of Firaxis here, so be warned.

I would like to add my voice to that of PN from the UK who has been posting in this thread.

I am a veteran of Civ I and Civ II ( but not the CTP series or SMAC).
I have not bought CivIII, mostly because I am a Mac user and it's not out yet. I decided to read this thread, because I was wondering what progress was being made fixing the program so it could be ported to the Mac. I consider myself lucky not to have plunked down the cash for this incredibly half-baked product.

From the amount of by-play generated at scores of fansites, it is quite clear that CivIII is fraught with bugs of all genus and species. These bugs range from major (install bugs, scrolling problems, hangs and crashes at all stages) to minor (all manner of animation, sound, typos, color/font, features not working as advertised) to serious design/balance flaws (AI trade cheating, persistent rampant corruption, warriors trashing modern armor, palaces costing 17 bazillion shields, and all other manner of illogical inconsistencies). Taken together, these bugs must make the game unplayable, and it should never have been released in this stage of development.

At first, I thought Firaxis was being accomodating to listen to its customers and field bug reports. Then I realized, at about the same time as PN, that the community of their paying customers is essentially being used to do the beta-testing that Firaxis should be paying its employees/contract workers to do. Don't these employees include play-testers as well as programmers? Given the plethora of possible hardware/system combinations, I imagine they'd have to hire quite a few. But why bother with this overhead cost, when they can simply take customers' money and then have them do the testing if they want a decent product?!

Well, they were right to pursue this strategy, since people are apparently going for it. My suggestion is to vote with your feet. Perhaps when Firaxis is faced with a high percentage of product returns to the store with a demand for money back, they will properly deal with the problems. It's that simple. If most people don't like when pikemen defeat their modern armor 40% of the time or when a city 10 squares away has 50% production loss then they won't buy it or they'll return it. Then we'll see who considers these properties "features" and who considers them "bugs". The developers will follow the money.

So, you say, "Have you any idea how massive and complicated the code is?!" Well, that's not the paying customers' problem. If it's not economical to produce a decent product, the market will ultimately demonstrate (through product returns) that it is less economical to produce a lousy one.

Firaxis owes me nothing, so I am not angry, but it does owe it's paying customers.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, but it is ineluctable that someone will take offense.

To quote one of my favorite leaders:
"I don't give 'em hell, I give 'em the truth; they think it's hell."
--Harry S. Truman

[Raion]

While there may be game-playing bugs left, there is still no excuse for Microsoft's OS's.
Let me put it this way. I have Windows 98SE on my computer. I tried and tried to re-install CIVIII to get the sound to work. Infogames in their support wisdom, said get video and sound drivers. My drivers are fine. What is not fine?
When you update anything from Microsoft, I guess, like IE5 or IE4 to like IE5.5, Microsoft decides not to say that it just might be sticking on parts of Windows 2000 or something.

What did this do to the CivIII game? I am glad you asked!
The bink32.dll file that I was suppose to use did not work with the sound, the opening movie always locked up the computer until I renamed the 'sound.dll' file so sound would not be there with the opening movie.
For over a month, I went on this way, contacting Infogames support, and playing without sound.

What did I do?

I used the bink32.dll file for Windows 2000 that came on the CD, and adjusted the acceleration of my graphic card down, (because that is the way my ATI graphic card works with the game).
What happened?
Now I have sound and video in the opening movie and sound in the game. It was not my drivers for sound and video display, it was the fact that when upgrading or updating files to IE5.5, Microsoft is sticking files on my computer that actually were for Windows 2000.
The game works fine now, since I tried the other bink32.dll file included on the CD for Windows 2000.

Who knows what Microstuffit is doing at any time?

One thing I do know is that if I can find the 5-1/4 floppy of Sid Meier's Pirates -- I can kick my Apple IIc computer to get it to work, put in the disk if it is still good, and have a computer that will play Sid Meier's Pirates with an old joystick because it is not an IBM compatible computer with a whatever OS on it!

As for game-playing issues, now I can finally play this CIV III beast.
So it is harder, may take some time to balance it out.
I think I remember Sid having to teach the computer in CIV II to play like a human -- to build roads and railroads back then in a patch that came out later. It turned into a beautiful game with many scenarios.

How many games do you really have where you can say that?

Probably none!

[Agni]

I am running Windows XP Professional with the latest updates from M$. Whenever I press F11 to see top cities, I get this problem:

I press F11 and see top cities
Press x to exit the screen
Now if I do anything, the program aborts

Also, I am looking forward to the coastal fortress firing automatically at the passing enemy ships fix. Currently they are of not much use

[vincentz]

Dr. K: Heeeeeeeeeelloooo. Play the game before you start whining about its bugs! You might think it is fine and dandy in reading the bug thread to see if you would like the game, but it is a bit like only reading Fhatwas to make up your mind about America (sorry for the extrme analogy).

Civ III is not bugfree, no game is, but is damn playable. You should not that just because one or two people encounter a problem (system stability etc.) does not mean that we all experience them and are suffering greatly under the wretched product we have bought with our hard owned money.

Buy the game and get a life.

[samsmithnz]

I agree with vincentz. What people like Dr K don't relize is that most of the people who post here have a problem, how many people out there are far too busy happily playing to come in here and post a problem????

Civ 3 is an awesome game, and for the small amount of issues I've come across, i'm very happy!

[Biggles266]

Has anyone else noticed this?

If I start my PC and then run Civ3, on the next boot or restart I get the message:

__________________________________
Please wait while Setup updates your configuration files. This may take a few minutes...


Completed updating files, contiunuing to load Windows...
__________________________________

To test, turn on your PC. Do not run anything. Restart. Watch for message while booting. Run Civ3. Quit. Restart PC. Watch for message while booting. I can reproduce this without fail.

Now I know this isn't much of a big deal but it takes my system boot time (from the Starting Windows 98... bit) from 13 seconds up to about 14 or 15 seconds so I don't like it.

Win98SE
Civ3 1.16f

I don't know if this really helps for this problem but here are the specs anyway:
Processor and Speed Intel Pentium III ~550MHz
Total System Memory 384Mb
DirectX Version DirectX 8.1 (4.08.01.0881)

Video Card Name NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Model 64/Model 64 Pro
Manufacturer NVIDIA
Approx. Total Memory 31.5Mb

Sound Card Name Creative SBPCI Direct Sound Driver
Manufacturer Creative

Video Driver: 4.13.01.2183
Sound Driver: 4.12.01.2011

[Dr. K.]

Originally posted by samsmithnz
...What people like Dr K don't relize is that most of the people who post here have a problem, how many people out there are far too busy happily playing to come in here and post a problem????
Civ 3 is an awesome game, and for the small amount of issues I've come across, i'm very happy!

I can't speak for "people like [me]", but I personally am aware of things such as selection bias in sampling, believe you me. I have read many comments, positive and negative, in many different places, so I realize that many think very highly of CivIII. However, it is crystal clear from a wide reading that the release was bug-infested and premature. I am not saying anything about the general value of the game. I would merely like to see developers release properly tested and quality-controlled products, and I proposed a way to give developers incentive to do so (or rather a disincentive not to do so).

You're probably right that I shouldn't complain without having tested the product myself. I am *assuming* that the sheer number of issues raised here and elsewhere indicates that serious problems exist (you are right--insert cliche here about assuming things). As I stated above, I'll find out for myself when the Mac port is released.

As for buying the game *and* getting a life, it would seem that the two are mutually exclusive. Lost a lot of time to CivII.

In favor of Firaxis, I'd like to say that they appear (judging from the unit balance thread) to be interested and listening to what their customers are saying. Should they continue free-of-charge support via a series of patches, I will acknowledge that I am wrong about their motives, and I will be quite happy to be wrong.

[GeorgePauley]

Hi,

I downloaded the v1.16f (the 2nd one) patch. Since then I have (attempted) to play 3 games (huge map, 8 civs). In each game, after I have discovered steam power, there is never any coal. No coal in my controlled area, and no coal in any other civ either. By the time I get to steam, the 8 civs pretty much have the entire map covered. I did not have this problem until I downloaded the patch. Before the patch, I would often not have coal myself, but could always find some civ willing to trade it to me (usually at extortionary prices), but now there is no coal anywhere.

Am I the only one who has seen this? Help! Firxas, please fix this. I am just about ready to uninstall the patch.

Thanks in advance.

[Colonel Kraken]

Originally posted by solo
1. No more trading of cities? The AI never consider it after the patch.

I didn't have the game before the patch, but I think it's curious that when I'm allies with a civ and I liberate one of his cities and offer to give it back to him, he refuses! Sometimes if I offer it for nothing in return the AI will take it. If I ask them what they will give me in exchange for the city, I get the, "That cannot be done at this time" or some such response. Not even 1 gold? Come on. Why would the AI refuse taking a city back that he formerly had? This happens also, of course, when I offer an ally a city that, although not formerly his, it is a city that is next to his borders and would connect contiguously with his empire. Why would the AI refuse to accept such a gift?

Is this a design decision? Hmmm . . . . I like to play the nice, benevolent civ, but this makes it kind of difficult.

2. I tried a right-click on the foreign advisor screen in a 4-civ game and a blue oval appeared where one of the AI might, if there had been more of them. Right afterwards, all lines disappeared and never came back, rendering the screen useless.

I had a similar problem. After discovering the French, they did not show up in the foreign advisor screen. After wiggling the mouse pointer over the area where Joan's mug should have been I got a green disk to show up. After goofing around for a while and left-clicking in the green disk, Joan's face finally showed up. Wierd.

[gnome]

Originally posted by Biggles266
Has anyone else noticed this?

If I start my PC and then run Civ3, on the next boot or restart I get the message:

__________________________________
Please wait while Setup updates your configuration files. This may take a few minutes...


Completed updating files, contiunuing to load Windows...
__________________________________

To test, turn on your PC. Do not run anything. Restart. Watch for message while booting. Run Civ3. Quit. Restart PC. Watch for message while booting. I can reproduce this without fail.

Now I know this isn't much of a big deal but it takes my system boot time (from the Starting Windows 98... bit) from 13 seconds up to about 14 or 15 seconds so I don't like it.

This happened to me on my machine, and on a friends' machine. But it was happening before the patch, also.

Anyone know what this is about?

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Colonel Kraken

I didn't have the game before the patch, but I think it's curious that when I'm allies with a civ and I liberate one of his cities and offer to give it back to him, he refuses! Sometimes if I offer it for nothing in return the AI will take it. If I ask them what they will give me in exchange for the city, I get the, "That cannot be done at this time" or some such response. Not even 1 gold? Come on. Why would the AI refuse taking a city back that he formerly had? This happens also, of course, when I offer an ally a city that, although not formerly his, it is a city that is next to his borders and would connect contiguously with his empire. Why would the AI refuse to accept such a gift?

Is this a design decision? Hmmm . . . . I like to play the nice, benevolent civ, but this makes it kind of difficult.

Pre-patch they would at least offer you something for the city & sometimes you'd have to stick w/ the offer to get them to take it, but now it is a matter of just giving it away to them for free. Pretty bloody silly. I will admit that I was kinda using it to balance out the deals of the type "If you want our coal you'll have to give us 1500 gold, rocketry, computers, furs and 250 per turn". Some of these guys are really proud of their stuff. Yet at the same time, if I offer them something like steel or aluminum, the best they'll offer me is something like territory map.

Gripe, gripe. I must admit, usually it isn't that bad. But they do seem a little bit biased against the human when making deals, at least when playing monarch.

Grumble,

[vincentz]

Dr.K: Glad to hear your post. Have any opinion you want based on what you hear, but IMHO CIV III rocks the very foundation of even Rock and Roll. And yes, CIV III would be much cooler if it had been bug free.

No comment on assumptions.

And in our world, you don't have a life until you have spent 20% of it with keyboard marks on your forehead from overplaying CIV.

And on the note of waiting until it was totally tested before release: What would 90% of Civ fans say if they came out in September saying it will be delayed 2 months for more testing?

[ruebarb01]

CIVILIZATION3 caused an invalid page fault in
module at 00de:01252c63.
Registers:
EAX=00435bc1 CS=0167 EIP=01252c63 EFLGS=00010282
EBX=006621c8 SS=016f ESP=00abf9a0 EBP=0140b0c0
ECX=0140b0c0 DS=016f ESI=0140b0a0 FS=11f7
EDX=00000000 ES=016f EDI=0065ea90 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
01 60 2c 25 01 60 2c 25 01 68 2c 25 01 68 2c 25
Stack dump:
00000001 00663428 00000001 0042f492 0140b0c0 00000020 00680dc4 006621c8 006630c0 00003064 0140e060 00000009 0140b0c0 0000dd58 00000000 00000001


Regent...1916 - game crashes on the same year...and if I go back 4 or 5 autosaves, it'll still crash in 1916

Win98 - SE
PIII 600 - 256MB
Voodoo3 3000 Video card
SB Live Value sound card

here's a file if you get bored.

RB

[Desert Dog]

Hey I know I was being a real jerk off complaining etc. Sorry for that! I am having problems that I seem to be having alone. My games are crashing when I reach Industrial age or modern age (recently modern age) right after picking the new tech that would place me in the new age. I was playing on my own map 230x230 with 8 civs. All I did was change the color of my civ, added 2 extra tech, AI at chieftain level. I have a high end PC that shouldn't be the problem. I have never been so frustrated trying to play a game in my life! Please respond thanks!

Desert Dog

[Rusty Nail]

I eliminated the Persians in my current game (Apolyton November game: Babylonians, standard map), or at least I thought so. They had no more cities. But yet they remained on the foreign advisor screen. I checked the shift-L cities list. Maybe they found a little island somewhere outside of my range. Nope. No cities listed. Strange. Nor wóuld they speak to my diplomat (a different feature that needs fixing). Then after a few turns I discóvered two of their ships still alive. So I sunk the ironclad first, and on the next turn the transport. Then I got the message "You have eliminated the Persians". OK. However, I simultaneously got the message that civ3 is closing down due to a fatal error. I reloaded the autosave a couple of times and changed the sequence, but with the same fatal crash immediately after the last Persian unit was eliminated. Two questions arise. Should all units and the civ disappear when the last city is destroyed as in civ2? (There could be a certain logic in keeping the civ alive if they had a settler on that transport.) If so, possibly this is the reason for the crash, because an impossible event has occurred. Second question: is this a bug? It would appear so. I can send the save game if Firaxis wants it, but it should be easy enough to check out. One of the crazy consequences if I continue without sinking that transport is that I cannot risk a UN vote because I know the "ghost" of the Persians will vote against their tormenter and swing the vote. Catch 22. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. Now I have to go for a conquest victory I guess, if I continue this game.

[player1]

Originally posted by Rusty Nail
I eliminated the Persians in my current game (Apolyton November game: Babylonians, standard map), or at least I thought so. They had no more cities. But yet they remained on the foreign advisor screen. I checked the shift-L cities list. Maybe they found a little island somewhere outside of my range. Nope. No cities listed. Strange. Nor wóuld they speak to my diplomat (a different feature that needs fixing). Then after a few turns I discóvered two of their ships still alive. So I sunk the ironclad first, and on the next turn the transport. Then I got the message "You have eliminated the Persians". OK. However, I simultaneously got the message that civ3 is closing down due to a fatal error. I reloaded the autosave a couple of times and changed the sequence, but with the same fatal crash immediately after the last Persian unit was eliminated. Two questions arise. Should all units and the civ disappear when the last city is destroyed as in civ2? (There could be a certain logic in keeping the civ alive if they had a settler on that transport.) If so, possibly this is the reason for the crash, because an impossible event has occurred. Second question: is this a bug? It would appear so. I can send the save game if Firaxis wants it, but it should be easy enough to check out. One of the crazy consequences if I continue without sinking that transport is that I cannot risk a UN vote because I know the "ghost" of the Persians will vote against their tormenter and swing the vote. Catch 22. Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. Now I have to go for a conquest victory I guess, if I continue this game.

It happend to me in non-pacth game.
I don't know what triggers it but I know THE SOLUTION.

There is somewhere some solitary enemy unit (probably a boat) wandering arount the world.
After you find it, kill it.
After that, Persians are no more.

Conclusion:
YES it is BUG. But sometimes you noramlly defeat civ after conquering its cities. So, what makes this thing to happend is still unknown.

[ruebarb01]

I've had the same issue...but it's because a settler is still active...

Troops go away...Settlers stay active and give the Civ. some chance at survival.

What you probably did was sink a boat with a settler on it.

RB

[player1]

Originally posted by ruebarb01
I've had the same issue...but it's because a settler is still active...

Troops go away...Settlers stay active and give the Civ. some chance at survival.

What you probably did was sink a boat with a settler on it.

RB

Yes, it is possibile.
This NEEDs fixing.

[Militia]

In ver 1.07f you had cultural victory for achievemnt in a single city at 20 000 cultural points. I was playing with patch 1.16f second update, on Warlord. And suddenly to my disappointment I couldn't win the game because of the enormous raise in demand in cultural points... Who the heck changed that figure from 20 000 to 100 000?

[The Hermit]

Well, I've been The Lurker At the Borders for some time now, but this thread as finally necessitated, in my mind, my speaking up, as I do have something to contribute.

First, minor addendums to the posts of others - yes, foreign cultures WILL give you a city in trades, but generally only very small undeveloped ones, and if you've recently posed a military threat to their survival. Some of the more aggressive cultures will stubbornly still hold out, but others - I note the Bablyonians in particular, seem to have a better survival instinct and will cede to your demands.

Secondly, the 100,000 in the last screenshot is not a "victory condition" number, it's the amount of culture needed for your next border expansion. I've won both types of culture victory, and both are quite functional.

Anyhow, for my own additions - concerning armies, would it not make sence that if an army consists of all units of one type, that any traits of that unit are still available? I address here with particular concern naval fleets, retreating capabilities, and UU status/golden age triggering capabilities. I must add the I agree with the sentiments of others the units within armies should be upgradable, in my mind, if not removable. I assume that part of army strength comes from the cohesiveness of the involved units and their cooperation skills, which would explain an unwieldiness with removal. However, though not necessarily historically accurate (several armies have been known to lose battles/wars/battlefield dominance due to a refusal to use more modern techniques/technologies, as opposed to an incapacity to do so) I believe upgrading units within armies to increase the "fun" of the game to be worth the sacrifice.

Second, and lastly, while I've seen some complaints on the success rates of espianoge missions, I have yet to see any about the sheer *cost*. Perhaps I am economically inefficient, but stealing an enemies' war plans at 20-50K gold, dependant on how risky I care to be, seems to be impossible to even pay for, even for the most likely to fail option. Yet the AI seems to get this information for free long before the tech is even around. It does not seem quite fair...

Enough out of me, back to the experts, so sayeth The Hermit.

"He had a lot to say, he had a lot of nothing to say." Tool - Eulogy

[vilius]

This probably has some issues with balance of the game, but I noticed that there's no way to implement this:
Others: Pikeman -> Musketaman -> Rifle
France: Pikeman -> Musketeer -> Rifle
or at least Pikeman -> Rifle.

others wouldn't make too much sense though:
Horseman -> Elephant -> Cavalry.. but one still might wanna have an option to upgrade ones Horsemen to Cavalry when it becomes avail.

Workaround: create a bogus Japanese SamuHorseman unit type (with same stats as normal Horseman) and let it upgrade to Samurai, not sure how would this affect AI and golden age trigger.
btw, editor q: any way to add new units?

p.s. can confirm/note there's something weird going on with my diplomacy screen: if i play 6civ - 2 extra civ-circles are still alive - get highlighted.

p.p.s. and.. is this only me.. or someone forgot that in huge worlds with 8+ civs there might be a need to rearrange diplomacy screen - tough one - need to get more circles, get a non-static sized graph, probably resize these circles too...

v

[player1]

Originally posted by vilius
This probably has some issues with balance of the game, but I noticed that there's no way to implement this:
Others: Pikeman -> Musketaman -> Rifle

This alredy exsist in the game.

Originally posted by vilius
or at least Pikeman -> Rifle.

This alredy works for French too.

Originally posted by vilius
France: Pikeman -> Musketeer -> Rifle

There is a solution.
Just make Musketmen upgradeable to Musketeer (don't forget the upgrate flag!!!)

To get:
Pikeman -> Musketaman -> Musketeer -> Riflemen

That way Pikemen would be upgraded to Musketmen if other, or Musketeer if France.
Also both Musketmen & Musketeer would be upgradeable Riflemen.

Musketaman to Musketeer upgrade
will never happen since civs with first unit never get a musketreer or the opposite for France.


I think that this is arleady done in some MOD in Files section.





P.S.

TIP: How to make unit OBSOLETE, but not UPGRADEABLE?

Lets, say you want Ironclads obsolete after getting Destoyers.
Still you don't want to allow Ironclad->Destoyer upgrade.

Simple, make Ironclad UPGRADEABLE to DESTROYER (left side of the screen) but REMOVE UPGRADE flag (from right side of the screen).

That way you WON'T be allowed to upgarde Ironclad, but Ironclad will also be REMOVED from building list.



Note for Firaxis:

THIS THING NEEDS TO BE DONE FOR SEVERAL UNITS IN STANDARD GAME (Ironclads, Frigates, Cavalry, etc.)

Probably in next patch.

[m_m_x]

Has anyone else noticed this?

If I start my PC and then run Civ3, on the next boot or restart I get the message:

__________________________________
Please wait while Setup updates your configuration files. This may take a few minutes...


Completed updating files, contiunuing to load Windows...
__________________________________

same thing here!

[Raion]

Yes, always, the same thing. Update Configuration Files. In fact, the game was wrecking files like gdi32.dll afterwards, and another one. It was, I guess, the video card drivers for the files. At least with a GeForce2 type card, I am not getting corrupted files it seems anymore, but the 'Update Configuration Files' always occurs.
But, that may be partially due to Microsoft and what their OS is doing. Does anyone really know with all the changes lately with their OS. Yes, some people need updates for various add-ons, but hey, all I need is something else that works with Windows.
The GeForce video card seem to help, must be the ATI drivers yet are not quite up to par for games.

Well, I guess one has to buy something that works first in this World!

Yes, I know its complicated!

That why people might as well play CivIII.

[Mongoose]

Originally posted by Militia
In ver 1.07f you had cultural victory for achievemnt in a single city at 20 000 cultural points. I was playing with patch 1.16f second update, on Warlord. And suddenly to my disappointment I couldn't win the game because of the enormous raise in demand in cultural points... Who the heck changed that figure from 20 000 to 100 000?

Militia, the 100,000 in the city screen is the level at which the city's cultural radius will expand. It has nothing to do with victory determination.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Militia
In ver 1.07f you had cultural victory for achievemnt in a single city at 20 000 cultural points. I was playing with patch 1.16f second update, on Warlord. And suddenly to my disappointment I couldn't win the game because of the enormous raise in demand in cultural points... Who the heck changed that figure from 20 000 to 100 000?

I never played that far in the early version, but the Manual states that the borders should expand at 10, 100, 1 000, 10 000 and 20 000. However as the multiplier is 10 I guess that it uses more of the BIC-rules, and that the city won't expand until 100 000 cp, but you will probably still win after 20 000 cp.

[TheChief]

Hi,

These are the problems that I've encountered since my completely new install of CIV3 and the (second) patch of 1.16f. If a save game is needed for review I can provide it.

1. Playing on a large world using the F4 (hate me if you want because I can't remember the screen name) function. There were seven rivals, but I was unable to ever view the 7th rival in the F4 screen even after two or three other rivals had been taken out of the game. Whenever a blank box was present, running the mouse over it would color it gold and clicking on it would bring up a civilization alredy shown.

2. Using CTRL SHFT G to pick a city to travel the list of cities was too large to display on the screen at one time. I was unable to pick from all my cities.

3. Corruption, corruption, corruption. My God does it have to be so bad. On a large map it is just insane to see the amount of corruption in any city a good distance away from the capital or Forbidden Palace.

This is the system that I'm playing on now:
Soyo Dragon Plus Mobo
Duron 1GHz
Soundblaster Live 5.1
Elsa Geforce 2 with latest Detonator drivers for Win2k
512 Megs DDR
Couple of NICs
No Modem
SP2 Win2k
All known IE patches
NO VIA 4-1 drivers installed

Johnny

Sorry if I posted duplicates, I just didn't feel like reading the almost three hundred replies