v1.16f: Issues? Bugs? This is the thread

Oh my goodness people! reading your posts makes me sad for being born a human. geez.......

People want a quality game...I say i want a quality people who can give quality posts.

-LMP

[electro]

Originally posted by woody
Oh, you want to automate for only the local city. Then RTFM, also page 197. Since you seem illiterate, the keystroke is -I.

Well that was the problem.. I dont remeber if I used it but I think I tried them both. And it still did...

[star mouse]

A new but harmless bug I found on the weekend with 1.16f:

When you have a worker selected, and you hover the mouse over the worker actions (mine, irrigate etc.) the estimates of how long the worker will take to perform the task are sometimes incorrect. For example, under Democracy, a task that actually takes 6 turns to complete might be estimated to take 12 turns. This is usually only evident when it's the first worker performing the task on that square. If you have several workers performing the same task, only the estimate for the first worker will be incorrect.

Another observation:

When you have the Lighthouse, Caravels can sink on Oceans. Is this intentional?

[Peets]

Originally posted by star mouse
When you have the Lighthouse, Caravels can sink on Oceans. Is this intentional?

Read the update/change list again!
it's in it
Lighthouse doesn't cover Oceans.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by star mouse
When you have the Lighthouse, Caravels can sink on Oceans. Is this intentional?

That is how it was supposed to be from the beginning. It was in the Civilopedia at least.

[eyes]

Here are my problems (as a Civ 1 and Civ 2 player) with Civ 3 in no particular order:

1) Corruption.

I know it's been said before but seriously, it's rediculous. I'm still on my first game, started from the tutorial so it's in the easiest difficulty in a tiny map and yet MOST of my commerce is waster (I'd say 80%) and in all but the closest cities to my capitop I get at most 2 or three shields that aren't wasted.


2) Armies.

I've only had one army, I put in an elite legionary and two elite knights. I then had difficulty killing a spearman in the Japanese capitol (I absolutle could not kill it with my army one turn but could the next, I like this as it stops cheating via re-loads but it's a bit silly if it's entirely determined not by unit strength but by some randomiser). Also you should DEFINATELY be able to upgrade units inside an army and also units like the legionary that are specific to you civ.

3) Pollution

I'm nearly in the 1900's and have recently got hospitals. My city sizes are reaching there twenties and pollution is rediculous. I built the hoover dam thinking this would help but then realised that it was nothing to do with production but population size. It's gonna be ages before I get mass transit and already grassland is turning into plains despite the fact that pollution is cleared up as soon as it appears. In civ 2 it took ages for global warming to have any effect (which was much better)

4) Bombardment

I've only tried with catapaults so far but it seemed ok only if you were just attacking a unit. If you attack a city it either misses or on rare ocaisons gets an improvement. I've never got any defenders.

5) Sound

Just want to add myself to the list of people who have had the sound.dll crash on me (I have a sound blaster live 1024). Also on the music in the first age or two I got static 'pop's' intermitanlty in the music.

6) Resources

I love the idea of resources only one problem - running out. It would work much better if it didn't run out. I just got refining and two oil deposites were used up before I even started making any units that use oil. This is bizare and very frustrating. Resources shouldn't in my opinion run out - it would make much better gameplay. (they should at least 'respawn' elsewhere)

I know these are more gameplay issues than bugs but for me they are all (so far) that I have found wrong with the game - everything else it fine. Culture is an excellent idea.

[Peets]

Originally posted by eyes
6) Resources

I love the idea of resources only one problem - running out. It would work much better if it didn't run out. I just got refining and two oil deposites were used up before I even started making any units that use oil. This is bizare and very frustrating. Resources shouldn't in my opinion run out - it would make much better gameplay. (they should at least 'respawn' elsewhere)

I know these are more gameplay issues than bugs but for me they are all (so far) that I have found wrong with the game - everything else it fine. Culture is an excellent idea.

I must say that I like it that resource dissapear but they respawn somewhere else on the map. They keep the right amount on the map. If you check the editor and read about it then you'll notice it. You can fill in the rate how fast it dissapear and reappear somewhere else.

[samsmithnz]

Heres a saved game of mine that crashes every time. You jsut have to press Enter to finish the turn and then i get an error message...

[player1]

in 1.16f these units have THE_WHEEL flag:
Catapults
Cannons
Chariot
War Chariot

So you NEED to UPGRADE civilopedia
(is it intentional to have TANKs without the_wheel flag?)


in 1.16f these units do not have ZOC flag anymore:
Horsemen
M. Warrior
Rider

So you NEED to UPGRADE civilopedia

Communism has in editor 2 units draft rate, while in civilopedia 3 unit draft

So you NEED to UPGRADE civilopedia (or give communism 3 units draft)

Conclusion:

So you NEED to UPGRADE civilopedia

P.S.

These land units can't be airlifted:

Settler (I can understand, a lot of people)
Worker (I can understand, a lot of people)
Scout (why, it is just ordinary unit)
Explorer (why?)
Catapult (Why? You can airlift tank)
Cannon (why?)
Artillery (why?)
Radar Artillery (why?)
Leader (Why, presidents today do not use planes?)
Army (ok by me, it is more units anyway)

[Raion]

I think Microsoft has reports about DX8 vs. DX8.1.

Here I think, not sure, just downloaded new drivers for ATI video graphic card:

http://www.microsoft.com/directx/

Now, if I remember and understand right, DX8.1 is included with XP, and it was written for XP and Windows 2000. If you are trying to play a game with ME or Windows 98SE or just Windows 98FE, actually DX version 8.0a is better for those computer.
This is what Microsoft says about that, if I remember right.

Check it out!

I have got DX8.0a version on since it was included with CIVIII, and except for the sound problem, which does work with DX8.0a and video -- all tests are successful -- the game probably just needs a patch for that also.

But I still can play it, except for getting out of the game, which in my case may be a CD-Disk problem -- it had a few marks on it, but I failed to take it back to the store.
Now, I am waiting for Infogames support to hear back from --- to see.

Other than that, it plays differently and maybe it will take some getting use to, so if play balance is not quite right, then that can always be changed.

I never won at CivII when I first played it, so I expect that with CIVIII, since it is different.

[Raion]

Oops! Guess I was wrong. It is just not for Windows 95, but all the answers are there at Microsoft.

Oops!

[Raion]

Just trying to help, if your monitor goes into sleep mode, that would be the power management setting maybe in Windows, that is set and that can be turned off, just like the hard drives can be left on all the time also.

Anymore, I turn off all little startup program before starting any game, all you need running is Explorer and Systray, all other little programs that wiggle themselves into starting on your system can be set to not start in the System Configuration file.

Take for instance in my system, I have Direct CD starting and a File Management CD thing, also Microsoft Word -- Osa starting, and many others that the manufacturer's software put in when installing, and on the Startup tab in the System Info - System Configuration (I am running Windows 98SE so on your system it may be something different), they can be unchecked so they do not start everytime. I hardly use my CD-Writer so I do not need little startup programs loaded up and starting to make the entire real program start faster by these little startup program.

All you need is Explorer and Systray, and anymore it is not even mentioned anymore, since most gamers should know that all games only need those two items in Windows.
If not one can end task those programs everytime when using Ctrl-Alt-Delete and the End Task for every little program except the real ones you need --- Explorer and Systray.

[althena1]

Im playing a tweaked huge map on deity level (256x256) with 16 civs using the updated patch, and the game has already reached the max number of cities

Now i ended by turn and the computer tried to make a city, so his settler makes a citiy, it gets cancelled. He tries making the city again, it gets cancelled. And so on, it went for minutes and didnt stop

This is using the updated patch

[Desert Dog]

Originally posted by Peets


Read the update/change list again!
it's in it
Lighthouse doesn't cover Oceans.

Hey dude if your going to be the JOE BLOW of advice why not pay attention to what is being asked. The Lighthouse should allow ocean travel. I read the read me and I think that removing the ability too explore the world with the lighthouse is essential just like civ 2 and the junk CTP series even.

Desert Dog

[Father Beast]

Originally posted by Pyrodrew


Coal hides better than any other resource due to it's graphic. This probably explains those posts of people saying, "there is no coal anywhere on my huge map."

Next time, move your mouse over the coal image (or missing resource) when you're in the Trade Advisor Screen. It will say, "Near SomeCityName". Then look there.

Oh goodness, you're right. it said it was near some city, and I scoured the land near the city and still couldn't find it. in desperation, I right clicked on EVERY TILE in the vicinity, trying to locate the missing resource, even going into other cities areas.
Finally found it on a mountain. the rightclick info box says it's there, but I still can't see it. maybe it's an "invisible resource", not a missing one.

[Peets]

Originally posted by Desert Dog


Hey dude if your going to be the JOE BLOW of advice why not pay attention to what is being asked. The Lighthouse should allow ocean travel. I read the read me and I think that removing the ability too explore the world with the lighthouse is essential just like civ 2 and the junk CTP series even.

Desert Dog

Umm, with the new patch it isn't.... it's clearly stated

[WarKing]

So, I just want to send a shout out and see if anyone has heard from any of the Firaxians in regards to the many bugs and game issues sited in this forum.

I know that they are undoubtedly busy and that it may take some time to solve even one of these issues. However, don't we, the fans, on whom their future rests, deserve some response?

I still like the game, and maybe I'm one of the lucky ones, I only have a couple issues that really get under my skin, and maybe I've been too forgiving, finding work-arounds, etc...

But I do believe that there are many posting on this forum who need answers, who demand quality, and who need to be shown some respect and conscientious attitude at the least from Firaxis.

All I'm asking is-"Where's the dialogue!?!"

[Asmodeus]

a minor issue -

has anyone noticed that you can build Aircraft Carriers before you have discovered Flight?

Just seemed a bit daft thats all.

re Lighthouse & Galleys/Caravels...

as already discussed at length in other threads - Lighthouse allows flimsy Galleys to cross Coastal & Sea squares without risk. They would be completely swamped if they ventured out into the deep ocean. (The Lighthouse was built to help guide Galleys across the Mediterranean in the absence of any other reliable form of navigation - not to cross 3500 miles of Atlantic like the Caravels would attempt about a 1000 years later).

Caravels can sail on Ocean squares too but there is a distinct chance of them foundering in rough weather. (Historically during this era of history, 1 in 3 ships were lost at sea in bad weather).

AFAIK, Galleons & Frigates are sufficiently tough enough not to suffer from this problem - although historically they still did to a lesser extent. Remember that even modern merchant ships/tankers and even warships can be lost at sea, take a sailing trip round the Horn if you dont believe me! Civ3 is being kind to us - although it's a shame we can't insure our ships!

[eRAZOR]

Originally posted by woody
I have read through this thread, and I must say that many of the people posting bugs are completely clueless.

Thank god wookie will enlighten us poor souls.

There are simply too many errors, caused by careless people who feel they have to announce every thing they disagree with as a bug.

And they have every right on earth to do so and will continue to do so.

(Do yourself and us a favor and try to make some real friends at school and stop trying to command people around here because it doesn't work elsewhere. Thanks.)

Instead, they should RTFM before posting bug reports.

Bug reports are usually classified into subcategories: Bug reports, Change requests, suggestions etc.

Can a moderator start a top-locked thread for posting bug reports, but moderate the thread so that a useful bug list is created?

And of course it's our wookie who determines what important and what not

Eliminate posts from people just complaining.

" ... Yeah and while we are at it - eliminate every post I don't like .. tat wuld be kewl, hehe .. cool"

Bugs should be verified by someone who knows the game and knows what they are doing.

Lemme guess, that would be wookie as well?

Only after a bug is verified, it should be posted to the master list.

If we want Firaxis to fix the bugs, we have to provide them a useful list of verified bugs.

How about leaving this task in the capable hands of the Infogrames QA Dept? They're getting paid for that.

Currently, this list is ridiculous. If I was working for Firaxis, I'd quickly stop reading here.

So instead you are posting here - which is worse.

Let's help Firaxis get the bugs fixed.

[Nikolai]

This two houndred and X replies is just too much for me to read, so maybe it has been mentioned before, but:

When I'm in the diplomacy screen, and I ask my opponent for an offer for my tecnology, luxuries, or something, I get, as I should, an offer. But when I try to change that offer to something better, and this is something I have done always before the patch, I get the advise that "they would never accept such a deal!", and the only choises I have is to lower the offer to 1 gold/turn, or asking the same question again!!!

Other than that, the patch is very good!

[WarKing]

I'm happy somewhere deep within my forgotten conscience that I can't arbitrarily bankrupt a civ.

On the other hand, I can still exploit the AI's during a war, when I ask for temporary peace...ahhh balance restored

[dac]

I hate burying this near the bottom of this thread, but I'm not sure I want to start a new thread either, so here goes.

Has anybody else noticed that the AI tends to get stuck on "refuse to see envoy" after you've razed a city or two of theirs? I got mad because the Greek Hoplites kept walking past my Modern Armor and scratching the paint with their spears, so I told them to get out, and the Greeks declared war. I took a few cities, they refused to speak to me. I took a few more cities, a couple reverted next turn. I re-took those, razed them, and razed another couple to "insulate" most of the Greek empire from their capitol. Now I was able to hold all the cities I took in the safe zone I had created. However, even when they were down to a couple of cities, after the war had gone on long enough to collapse my Democracy into Anarchy, they still refused to talk to me. That just seems pretty suicidal on the part of the AI to me. Yes, I understand that since I razed some of their cities they'll always be furious with me, but since I'm taking 2 - 4 cities a turn, you'd think at some point in the algorithm, the "survival" parameter would begin to outweigh the "rage" parameter.

Or am I a particularly offensive Civ player?

[solo]

1. No more trading of cities? The AI never consider it after the patch.

2. I tried a right-click on the foreign advisor screen in a 4-civ game and a blue oval appeared where one of the AI might, if there had been more of them. Right afterwards, all lines disappeared and never came back, rendering the screen useless.

3. A war between 2 AI is announced, but this does not show up on the foreign advisor screen.

4. A right click after stealing tech while using espionage on the tech screen locks you there. All techs are either known or unknown, but attempts to exit are met with "our agent in "capital" needs your instructions".

5. Sometimes, ask the AI what it will trade for something and their exact list is the only thing they will accept, and ONLY after asking what they will offer. Duplicating it exactly or even taking less than their offer is unacceptable.

6. Would be nice to include number of turns needed for the next advance somewhere on city screens. Also would be nice to immediately see the effects of taxmen and scientists on city screens as in CivII. Must switch to the domestic advisor now to see effects.

7. A list of beaker totals for all cities, etc, on the domestic adisor screen would be handy. Also would be handy on the culture screen. Anywhere a list of city statistics is given, it would be nice to have totals appear under the last city in the list.

8. Two AI "learned" the exact same tech, Synthetic Fibers, on the same turn that I did. Seemed fishy for this to happen. None of us "knew" this tech the turn before simultaneous discvovery.

9. Checking the trade advisor early in one game told me I could trade with the Iroquois. I had no map of their cities, which were all on another continent. I also lacked a harbor.

10. Would be nice to be able to move stacks of units, especially workers, when shifting them around to do jobs as a team.

[lockstep]

In my last but one game, my foreign advisor suddenly told me that ' the Americans have been destroyed'. He didn´t tell me who destroyed them, but as I had no contact with them, I think this is how it should be. (They also didn´t show up in the histograph screen afterwards.)

A couple of turns later, I make contact with the Aztecs. Some of their cities have American names and size 1 cultural borders. Okay, this is what happened to the Americans. In the histograph screen, there´s a new colour for the Aztecs (they are definitely no. 1 at the moment), but still no entry for the Americans. (Suggestion: whenever a new civ is displayed in the histograph, also display all civs that have been destroyed by them.)

And now for the real bug: A lot of tiles between the former American cities were no-man´s land outside the Aztec´s cultural borders. However, in the mini-map these tiles were displayed in the Americans´ colour.

[Peets]

Originally posted by solo
1. No more trading of cities? The AI never consider it after the patch.

I never saw this before the patch and now I had it with the tournemant game I played...

[star mouse]

Originally posted by Desert Dog
Hey dude if your going to be the JOE BLOW of advice why not pay attention to what is being asked. The Lighthouse should allow ocean travel. I read the read me and I think that removing the ability too explore the world with the lighthouse is essential just like civ 2 and the junk CTP series even.

Desert Dog

His advice was fair. The original reason why I asked the question was in relation to an early version of CIV3, where the game designers said the Lighthouse bumped both the Galley and Caravel up one level - galley in danger on oceans only, and Caravel allowed to travel unhindered. The game has since changed, and I missed the description of the change.

[Libertarian]

When two recon areas overlap, the result is that the overlapping area falls back into the dark fog.

[Archmage]

First of all, there is a bug which did NOT exist before when automating workers to clean up pollution. Workers will ignore pollution once two workers are already cleaning that particular pollution. To get three or more workers to clean pollution in one spot you have to manually move the workers there and push shift-c. Even if they are ON TOP of the pollution, shift-p does not work. Minor? Yes. But still annoying...

Second, I think you guys did a great job addressing a lot of issues and you guys have to be congratulated. But, unit stacking for movement purposes, to me, had to be the biggest problem pre-patch. And remains the biggest problem, of course. You have to realize the sheer number of hours required to play one game of CivIII. Most of that time is fun. Some of that time is drudgery. Please, I IMPLORE you! I can't stand moving units individually from a common starting point to a common destination. Help minimize the tedium and maximize the fun.

Third, I don't understand why you guys made it take LONGER to research, at least maximizing the possible amount of turns to arrive at any particular discovery. I was having enough difficulty before. It's not just me. I'm usually the most advanced civ and I often arrive at the fourth era just as the game is ending, give or take a few researches. Clearly, the AI is having the same problems. It's also not possible to trade advances when you are the most technologically far along. It's probably not in your best intersts anyway. And as an aside to that, I always rush literature, build The Great Library, build libraries religiously in every city. Keep science rate at 70 or 80%. When I have nothing but Education to research, I immediately put Universities in every city.
On the two or so occasions I got to Computers, I built research labs in every city. I also built SETI and I always put Newton's in my capital. Well, maybe it's just me but I don't consider myself an amateur Civ player. I dont know.

I've seen a lot of venom and vitriol directed in your direction and I just want to say that I think this game is terrific and at a time when I have Ghost Recon and Aliens Vs Predator2 and Return to Wolfenstein, ALL great games, I find myself coming back to CivIII over and over. So thank you for a terrific game. And keep trying to make it better.

[bahoo]

I was bombing a city, when all of a sudden I hit bomb and nothing happened. I waited for 30 seconds or so thinking maybe my workers were doing their thing and was finally about to CTRL-ALT-DEL.

All of a sudden an enemy fighter flew the entire way across the screen backwards, having shot my bomber down.

[AllanEvans]

I have noticed this too... and I tend to be a rather lenient player (until I get annoyed at incursions like you did... and then I had to change to Monarchy to finish off the idiots...). The 'refuse to talk' answer should have some work around... some way of forcing them to talk after 'n' turns or something.

Originally posted by dac
I hate burying this near the bottom of this thread, but I'm not sure I want to start a new thread either, so here goes.

Has anybody else noticed that the AI tends to get stuck on "refuse to see envoy" after you've razed a city or two of theirs? I got mad because the Greek Hoplites kept walking past my Modern Armor and scratching the paint with their spears, so I told them to get out, and the Greeks declared war. I took a few cities, they refused to speak to me. I took a few more cities, a couple reverted next turn. I re-took those, razed them, and razed another couple to "insulate" most of the Greek empire from their capitol. Now I was able to hold all the cities I took in the safe zone I had created. However, even when they were down to a couple of cities, after the war had gone on long enough to collapse my Democracy into Anarchy, they still refused to talk to me. That just seems pretty suicidal on the part of the AI to me. Yes, I understand that since I razed some of their cities they'll always be furious with me, but since I'm taking 2 - 4 cities a turn, you'd think at some point in the algorithm, the "survival" parameter would begin to outweigh the "rage" parameter.

Or am I a particularly offensive Civ player?