Space Age

[agent4043]

Has anyone ever been frustrated by the fact that your civilization ends on earth. Sure, you send some colonist to Alpha Centari but for what? I think Civ III should go beyond earth to establish colonies elsewhere. Start with the moon (possibly even opt for a two moon system), move to mars, and eventually the voyage to Alpha Centari. You'd have transport ships to go between, and it would work like settling any other continent.

This should be made as simple as possible yet as realistic as possible. Realism is a big concern for me. I would have trouble playing if the units were too science fiction like... other people's imaginations don't always work like mine. I think Venger hit it on the point in his "new tech concept" thread. We have most of the technology today. Future enhancements (not to mention the political and economic substructure) would quickly make space exploration and colonization a reality.

[Par4]

Man what happened to the "What about Mars" thread, well if you can dig it up we had a big 30 some post discussion on it, then it just died pretty much.

Civ3 gen has been slow lately, we need fresh blood!

------------------
I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
HappyLand

[agent4043]

we lost the "what about mars?" thread? ahhh! :-( I figured someone had to have brought this up. I couldn't believe it when I couldn't fine one.

[Par4]

Fear not, I Par4 will 'bump' that thread back up!! muahahahahhahahahahhahahahha!! Save me Jeebus and don't forget to come to the mod asylum!!

------------------
I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
HappyLand

[Par4]

On second thought, "What about Mars" no need, too much crap about the magnetosphere whatever that is and radiation. Start a new here no need for old ideas. Visit happyland

------------------
I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
HappyLand

[rremus]

Suggestion for realism:

• Relative position between Mars and Earth, varies each year and makes cost effective launches possible only one at several years.
• Crash several missions for various stupid reasons http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msp98/news/mco990930.html

[Fintilgin]

I would also really enjoy a realistic treatment of the near future of civilization in space, without recreating the super-high tech of Alpha Centauri.

But I really don't think it's going to happen. Civ3 is almost certainly designed to link to SMAC in one way or another, and therefore Firaxis already has it's `space colonization' game so why would they try to make another mini one? Cool as it would be I don't think we'll see anything like this.

Joe

[STING]

A more expanded future-tech age wouldn't hurt...

My view of the time track of an ideal Civ game: (the primitive ages I don't give a thorough description)

* Stone age

Primairily a settling and exploration age
Techs: alphabet, mapmaking, etc.

* Bronze age

More focused on war, more exploring

* Middleages

Mainly focused on religion and social reforms

* Colonial age

Advanced exploration of the entire world you play on, making contact with distant civs, more social reforms,etc.

* Industrial age (1850-1950)
Characteristics: Mass production, polution, machinal warfare

* ... age ;-p

* Information age (1975-now)
Characteristics: Environment-related production, present time related stuff.

Rising threat of the ozon-layer. Civs who produce much pollution risk problems with the ozon layers above their territory and decreased civ growth

Ability to launch sattelites to monitor sereval activities

* Adv. information age (future)

Ability to exploit other planets in the system for resources. Civs would not be able to explore maps on them, but just build a "mining" or "research" base which would appear on a special "Space improvements" screen

Space improvements could be:

* Mining station
* Research station
* First Contact wonder
etc.

On the war subject.. you could have something like a 'Star wars' wonder, which would count as a SDI defense in every city.

Space stations from where you could launch war sattelites, or orbital space craft.

This would require two layers:

> Normal land layer - (ground, low-alt. units)
> Orbit layer - high-alt units, orbitals


* Space colon. age

Full colonization of other planets, like AC
Not included in game

First colonization = win the game.. same win condition as civ1+2


And also.. there could be a third layer... into sea... sea colonies...

damn damn there I go.. popping out ideas which would compromise the UI...


------------------
STING
----------------------
BorgIRC.NET http://www.borgirc.net
[This message has been edited by STING (edited June 07, 2000).]

[abuzayd]

check out Test of Time, it's got something like that with multiple maps... in the "expanded game" you can colonize alpha centauri.

it's ok, not as much fun as regular civ IMHO.

[Akron]

I just have to say that those test of time graphics plain suck. I'd much rather have the clean, crisp, 2D images without the unneccessary animation than those graphics.

But anyway, yes, there should be the colonization of space as the main victory goal, but it should take something like 60 or more years to finish so that you can use the new information age units, techs, and other options. Also, future units should not be too science fictous, as they were in CtP. No cyber ninjas. No space fighters. No space bombers. No crawlers.

I agree with STING. I think space colonization should be an add on. They should build in a hook that would allow customization beyond the designed end of the game. That way, they could tie it in with SMAC or something else entirely (a mod pack or something). Keep the game open ended and allow us to build extensions (not just modifications) to the game if we want - like scenarios, only more.



------------------
"We are all greater artists than we realize."
-Nietzsche

[Par4]

Well I like star wars SDI, SDI's purpose was and will be to protect troops and all land. SDI should protect all of your territory and units from nuclear attack. So if you have troops in the middle of Russia from Africa they won't get nuked to hell and back. Also nuking city improvements and small cities(IIIC) would be protected if out of the city's range of protection. Star Wars could also stop enemy nations from getting into space until laser tech researched.

Wonders
Lunar colony-After advance high orbit space flight, gives production bonus to information age production, computers for corporations(IIIC), medical, we could look this stuff up for things that would be constructed better in outer space.

Man on Mars-Available after Long Range Space communication, gives you a picture of your flag on Mars!!

Mars colonies-Available after Long Range Space communcation and Advanced Propulsion, maybe a bonus in research and industry in all cities or could cut back on construction of everything not too much though.

Space techs shouldn't take long because by the Info Age science production will be large.

Advanced High Orbit Flight- Gives lunar colony and explore probes
Long Range Space communication- Gives advanced probes, Man on Mars, science bonus.
Advanced Propulsion- Gives Mars colonies, mining bases, research stations, manufacturing bases.

1 level, multiple levels=no fun no fun at all

IIIC=If It's In Civ3

I read about hydrogen+anti hydrogen=1/2 light speed travel in Scientific American, only thing that would make a Mars or Io mining colony feasible and cost effective. I'm pretty sure antihydrogen travel is in SimMars which Maxis is working closely with NASA on, you only have to use a quick shot to get going because you glide too. Needs this to get to AC because of large amounts needed to gain sufficent speed, AC is a long long way away.

Allowing for good customization to make space levels would be good for extended play and longevity of the game.

------------------
I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
HappyLand

Par, can you post those WoW ideas on the WoW Thread. I'd like to see some discussion on those ideas for future wonders

------------------
~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~
"Oh, they have the Internet on computers now!"

[rremus]

quote: Originally posted by Fintilgin on 06-06-2000 05:21 PM Firaxis already has it's `space colonization' game so why would they try to make another mini one? Joe

IMHO SMAC is not a true 'space colonization' game, as I want it. Is just a civ game with futuristic units/advances/scenario, as is still restricted to colonize only one planet (map).
I think a true space age would allow interstellar traveling. According a to a probability number, a newly visited star might have an enhabitable planet. If you choose to colonize it, the game should generate a new map for that planet. Of course, since your're orbiting the planet, you should see the whole map from the beginig...
Other home planet based civs might decide to send they colonist/settlers to the planet, establishing new cities (bases?). They could also discover other planets and start colonizing them. Such an event would be known to all players/civs, so other civs could decide to send in they're own colonist to the planet dicovered by the original civ.
Transport of units/goods between the planets should take certain number of turns, according to the distance between them.
Of course, we need some cool space age/space colonisation stuff to differentiate this sort of game from a simple huge map game.
One thing could be aliens. They could establish they own bases on your planets. If they're unfriendly, they could trigger a peace aggrement between the civs colonising that planet in order to join forces to stop the agression. Friendly ones could help you with alien technologies (that cannot be researched, only obtained from aliens) and with trade. I think alien artefacts would give you a LOT of money on the home planet.
Alien civs (races?) would be generated by the game at a certain stage, when you started colonising other planets or at a certain moment in time. Thus, even if you did not start space age colonisation, you could encounter them on your home planet.


[This message has been edited by rremus (edited June 08, 2000).]

[Urban Ranger]

It's pretty easy to get to Mars. All you need is an engine that can do 1g acceleration. You don't need any anti-matter engine for it. Then again, our current chemical based stuff wouldn't cut it, either.

[Grier]

As far as I know you are supposed to be able to carry on your civ using AC and the choices you make in CIV3 will effect things in AC.

[agent4043]

rremus, I think you have a great idea... Each nation could pick and choose which planets to colonize and everyone would have constant map updates of each other as deploying a satellite would be simple matter of building and selecting planet (or system). Founding cities should be much faster too and needingly so with the potential for so much more land. I see them as easy as establishing forts/airbases, eventually growing themselves for mining and trade colonies, and eventually into cities. (insert imigration thread ideas here)

Planets would also differ; some supporting life as we know it, some needing dome habitats. Alien life would need to be implimented very carefully. This is one area where our imaginations differ greatly and something too extreme will be detracting from the game for someone... especially intelligent alien life.


Par4, what is it specifically with multiple maps that you dislike? Depending on how it was done, I would have no problem with multiple maps for each planet. Keeping track of what was going on where would be fine as long as each planet had something unique about it. Usually city placement is enough to distinguish where you're at.

As a side note, I had always wished Alpha Centari followed the Starcraft story rather then the on-ship disfactions they went with. First contact coming through interplanatory traveling...

[Steve Clark]

If someone wants to design a scenario about space colonization and warfare in Civ3, that would be great. But don't include such nonsense in the main game. IMO.

I agree with Steve, I don't mind keeping it on Earth during the regular game. The scenarios can do the things you talked about.

------------------
~~~I am who I am, who I am - but who am I?~~~
"Oh, they have the Internet on computers now!"

I'm not sure if this would be considered off topic; but, if you want what should be a good space colonization kind of game, check out Galactic Civilizations from Stardock. I know I really liked it on OS/2. I've even been thinking about reinstalling OS/2 just to play again, so the windows version is good news.

[agent4043]

yeah, it is a controversial topic. I'd be fine with an add-on or scenario. I wouldn't call it nonsense though. Colonization and space exploration is inevitable for man. Its just a question of how soon. ahhh, Civ17 will have some pretty nifty units.

[Par4]

I don't like multiple maps because they aren't fun. And I doubt any colony network on a hospitable planet is going to be around by 2060 unless we drop the sweep of time thing. I just hate switching maps, it sucks, it takes time. CTP had a button for the space map, pretty easy, how is Civ3 going to do better? Why do you think CTP2 dropped the other map thing, it wasn't fun, it sucked, no one liked it. Multiple maps IMHO isn't going to add anything to the game's funness(is this a word?)

------------------
I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
HappyLand

agent4043:

You're right about Civ17, but someone had better get some skin scrapings of Sid Meier so we can clone him if he dies before it's complete .

par4:

I agree that multiple maps don't really add anything to the game. How is two maps really any different than one really big one as far as gameplay goes? I do like SMACs orbital map because it is extremely limited in scope and doesn't allow any colonization.

But technically, the beginnings of Mars colonization are possible now. Read "The Case for Mars" by Robert Zubrin and Richard Wagner. I think it might even be available online somewhere, but don't ask me where (try NASA or JPL sites).

[Par4]

Colonization is possible but I mean practical colonization, something your civ could get back. Some small research stations or non inhabited mining bases could be possible, I think but a network of city production centers in the Civ timeline I doubt.

------------------
I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
HappyLand

I think a SpaceBase would be Nice, but then the game keeps going and going it will never end. Eventually the Firaxis Developers would run out of ideas, eventually. (Probably in a Million Years ) Good Idea Though, I like it!

------------------
GAMEOPOLIS