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Old January 12, 2002, 03:07   #1
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great game in theory, so why aren't I playing more?
The more I look at the game, the more I appreciate it.

I don't necessarily like it more, and in fact, I can't sit through a whole game, I can't even get past the middle ages without quitting and starting over. It's not that I'm doing poorly, or that the game isn't fun anymore, it's just I lose interest. (plus I have way too much work these days - still I'm on these boards! why is talking about the game more fun than actually playing it?)

At first, I thought there were a number of errors that made the game worse, but then after some thinking, I realized they're not that bad. Most are easily fixed by things such as we've already done, and others aren't really problems. The only real problem is that which is intrinsic to the genre (and big bucks'll go to whichever game company solves it) - that of late game tedium.

Despite what everyone has said here about all the problems with it, I don't think many are as crippling as they seem. In fact, many people have put a lot of time and effort into modifying the game and have managed to fix lots of these problems - even without the patch.

For example, you can get a grfx file that helps you see resources better, solving your eyestrain problems.
Another example, the navy is too weak! So people have changed the stats and tried to play balance it so it's more potent!
Also, there's a way to fix it so that cruise missiles can be fired from boats, and so planes are more effective and can sink boats...
Not sure about limiting movement on RR's yet though.
Lastly, the settler/city AI diarrhea - change the unfriendly terrain to zero food. You won't have size 1 AI cities everywhere, they'll die off on hostile terrain. (i believe this works for the most part)

(actually that's even better an idea. recall that most of the world is inhospitable and until very recently with tech advantages, only very small, "insignificant" communities were found there. even the mega cities of the south US would be sleepy towns if not for air-conditioning, and the arctic cities would be in hibernation if not for modern heating fuels *no trees there).
The world's population really is VERY concentrated in certain areas.

(although, I do want food trading on my wish list - lots of cities wouldn't be as half as big as they are if the food they consume had to be produced locally - e.g. NY, Mexico City, Tokyo, Shanghai, Delhi, London, etc...)

Stuff that we can't fix, will be solved by patches improving the editor - or a new release (and please, some folks should really quit whining about prices - what other product can you purchase for $50 that gives you as many hours of enjoyment? a good meal for two easily costs more than that! I'm not wealthy, but really, for amount of entertainment in the life of the game, it's like 50 cents an hour - pittance compared to other things in life. Parking in downtown TO alone costs like 8$ an hour)

So, a better editor will be coming along soon, as well as MP. Be patient, remember that they can't do everything and putting out here for us to help find flaws and make suggestions is the best way for us to get a better and more robust final product. why rush MP or an editor? Let them take the time to do a good job. this will be fine for now. (of course, keep up the comments so they know what to do!)

(btw, I'll wager they'll fix this army disappears upon revolt thing. Until then, there are many temporary fixes out there).

Lastly, some stuff really isn't wrong, it's a challenge.

For example, the fact that borders are "soft" and not "hard". Well, that's the challenge of reality too - aside from the initial 13 colonies and the louisiana purchase, america's "manifest destiny" was achieved primarily by squatters who moved to where they wanted and fought off the proper owners later. In turn, the Netherlands, Britain, France, and Spain protested of course, and some fighting ensued, but because the squatters got there first and built up their homesteads and cities, they had a huge advantage. Only the natives put up a serious fight, and succeeded at slowing american expansion at first,
but since they struck only the outskirts and never the core of america's infrastructure, they failed. (Lack of unity and susceptibility to disease played a huge role too though)

For most of human history, borders have been porous. As your civ's ruler, it's your job to stay vigilant and punish those jerks if they keep pissing you off. Want to be a humane ruler? Well, that is the burden of power. Sometimes your hand is forced and you can't play nice because your rivals refuse to play nice.

Another example, the goths, magyars and others moved in from the east down towards rome's territory. There was some sporadic fighting at first, but they just sort of settled inside rome's borders, and rome didn't have the power to control them, or the will to declare war and push them out.
I only gave two examples, but read up and you'll see that's the way it goes. even today, refugees and migrants are rarely stopped b/c no one wants to fight them - and if not for assimilation, they'd form their own communities.

Btw, don't complain about the isolated pockets of cities either. That was how most civs were. Large empires were collections of various city states which paid tribute, unlike the unified nation state of today. Cities would rebel and five years later the imperial armies would arrive to put down the revolt. They seldom stayed. This is why Rome was great, it stayed, it developed its infrastructure, it spread its culture. But it became complacent.
Building the infrastructure and developing the culture to really unite an "empire" as a "nation" comes after centuries of "effort".


Remarkably, though it sounds like I've been paid to endorse this game, I haven't. Despite the fact I think it's great - I somehow, don't play it.

If I only knew why!

What's really at the root of this?
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Old January 12, 2002, 03:11   #2
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opps, this was supposed to be a poll
oops,
lost myself in my own verbiage...

this was supposed to be a poll asking why those who don't play anymore aren't playing.

my bad.
apparently all my base are belong to you.
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Old January 12, 2002, 04:18   #3
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Read this thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=39519

I think that many of us take a middle position--that is, that the game is good relative to many other offerings on the market today, but many nagging details keep it from being truly immersive and sadly bring it down from being the product it could be.

I think this may answer why you aren't playing it so much. Divided, the parts seem better than the whole turns out to be.

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Old January 13, 2002, 13:10   #4
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What a sharp observation! Indeed, there is an antigestalt with this game.
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