Another Age of War PBEM - Page 24

winterfritz · July 11, 2002, 22:27

French leadership also commends the new democratic Turkish government. Libya has been incorporated into the Third Republic without incident.

With the completion of the Turkish Revolution, every major power in Europe now enjoys the benefits of a democratic form of government. Given the liberal spirit of the times, France too feels that perhaps it is time to give the German people the right to determine their own destiny independent of the other powers.

The ANZAC · July 12, 2002, 16:15

Valensky Proposal Issued!

Foreign Minister Borris Valensky issued a proposal for the independance of Germany.

1. An interim government will be formed from the cities of Rostock, Magdeburg, Erfurt, Leipzig, Prague, and Salzburg. After certain criteria are meant then

2. A provisional government is formed and the cities Graz, Regensburg, Nuremburg, Hannover, and Lubeck will be given back. Again some more criteria will need to be met then

3. Select areas will be kept under longer occupation. Germany will have to pass some strict guidelines and will get the cities of Vienna, Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich, Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Dortmund, Hamburg, and Kiel; maybe

4. The cities of Stettin, Trier, and Arhus will be open to plebiscite. How exactly this will be determined is yet decided upon.

Comments/Questions/Amendments welcome.

Case · July 12, 2002, 19:37

The Italian government broadly agrees with the Russian proposal. However, our final verdict on the proposed German borders will have to await the conclusion of discussions with our British and French allies.

Cyrion · July 12, 2002, 21:03

The Turkish government, though feeling they have no authority on this matter, think the russian proposal about an independent Germany is really wise and, should the other nations agree, would welcome a german resurrection!

In a letter to the Russian government, Acting Prime Minister Cyrion thanked the Russian navy for the soon-to-be withdrawal and explained that the Trans-Europe Express ran from Istanbul to Paris through Tirane thanks to the hard work of the french, turkish and, most of all, italian engineers!

Another letter was sent to an anonymous correspondent in Italy stating that a mysterious "political advisors" proposal was taken into account and might be useful in the next month...

OOC: for me there is no problem with your taking a bit more time, James!! A moving is always a painful experience...

Case · July 13, 2002, 02:33

Bizare Heist Hits Naples Zoo!

Zookeepers at Naples Zoo have been shocked by the aparent theft of the crocodiles 'Old Chompy' and 'Mrs Maneater'. The head of the Southern Italy Police Command has denied rumors that the mysterous 'Winter De Fritz' organistaion was behind the thefts.

JamesJKirk · July 17, 2002, 00:59

Kirk Broadly Accepts Valensky Proposal
After careful consideration, Prime Minister Kirk today annouced that he supported the aims of the Russian Valensky Proposal, but did have some minor questions and issues regarding it. First, Kirk requested that Russia provide examples of the criteria Germany would have to meet to move on to each successive phase. Second, Kirk announced that Kiel and Arhus are part of the Danish province of the Germanic Confederation, and should not be considered for territory of a new German state. Although Kirk did hint that he may accept Kiel as a Plebescite Area once he receives details about these. Kirk also would this Magdeburg should be considered an Occupation Zone. Thirdly, Kirk proposed an amendment to the proposal that would state that the head of government of a future German state would be subject to the approval of the five European powers (ie, we would get to vote on the player who takes the role of Germany).

JamesJKirk · July 17, 2002, 01:18

Sorry for the delay, the phone line wasn't set up as quickly as I'd anticipated. Nothing new, really

The ANZAC · July 18, 2002, 10:17

Russia Development is well on its way!

All Russian cities are making headway now on building up industrially. All cities are becoming bountiful and almost utopic.
Also Engineers have begun work on two major projects: the Trans-Balkan Railway and the Petrograd-Moscow-Kharkov-Sevastopol Line. The Trans-Balkan line is far from completion, but Russian officials hope this will stimulate the region's economy.

Response for Valensky Proposal

Unfortunately Russia lacks ideas for criteria that Germany should be judged on (OOC: the game engine doesn't let us do too much in the way of criteria

)
Germany Agrees with all the British amendments accept having Magdeburg as an occupation zone. Germany starting off will need cities to rejuvenate itself and taking away Magdeburg would be unwise if we want Germany to survive the early stages.

JamesJKirk · July 18, 2002, 17:25

Quote:

Germany Agrees with all the British amendments accept having Magdeburg as an occupation zone.

Do you mean
"RUSSIA Agrees with all the British amendments EXCEPT having Magdeburg as an occupation zone. "?

This would make a lot more sense. I'll act on the assumption that that's what you meant.
Britain accepts that Germany will need Magdeburg to function as a fledgling country, and thanks Russia for her quick acceptance of the other amendments.

Britain has one more question regarding Occupation Zones. Are Kiel and Hamburg both British Occupation Zones on the Russian proposal? Because as long as Britain has one Occupied city, I suppose she could be content. Though she'd prefer two.

On the topic of criteria, Britain sees them being such things as Time Periods, Diplomatic, Military, and Economic/Industrial questions. Most probably each set of criteria should require a couple or few of these. For example, one of the criteria could be something like Germany can move on once its built a factory, a national defense unit or an engineer, and one year has elapsed since it began the current phase. Something like that. We could also perhaps forbid Germany to have a password, at least up to a certain point, so that we all may check on its progress

The ANZAC · July 18, 2002, 18:27

I must have not been paying attention

Britain will have Hamburg only, since you wish to keep Kiel as a plebiscite area, though it really is German. Again the criteria are hard to make because Germany has been under occupation for quite a while and the nations in occupation have been developing the areas they control. So Germany will have nearly if not all the necessary improvements already when handed over control of cities and will need to make barely any improvements. But then if we agree to sell off some improvements from the cities I fear it will degrade into rapid stripping and pillage of the cities, making them effectively worthless.

Case · July 18, 2002, 20:23

4th Fleet Blunders into Dardanelles

Due to faulty navigation the 5th Destroyer squadron has ended the month off the city of Galipoli! According a 4th Fleet spokesman, the navigational error was the result of "the squadron's navigator not paying full attention to what he was doing. Fortunatly the squadron's commander was able to anchor the ships out of the main sea route through the straits". The navigator has been relieved of his post and will face court martial.

As a show of good faith, the Italian government has presented 50 tons of gold to the Turkish authorities.

JamesJKirk · July 18, 2002, 23:22

Right, I understand that we can't just go selling off improvements right and left and expect to have a viable partner in Germany. But this is where I think the part where we all would have access to look at the insides of Germany as we wished, so we'd know how each of the cities were.

I was just given an example of what the criteria could be, specifics can be figured out upon the creation of a German state, using my example and/or others as guidelines.

Kiel has historical German as well as Danish ties. Britain saw it fit to let it be administered by Denmark as Germany gained the territory by conquest in 1866.

Also, although we don't know the format or have the slightest idea how it would be done, Britain would like to nominate Turkish Prime Minister Cyrion as the official Plebiscite Moniter.

winterfritz · July 19, 2002, 04:44

French Government Responds to Valensky Proposal
Leading ministers in the Third Republic today deliberated the controversial Russian proposal to recreate an independent Germany. While it quickly emerged that the Chamber of Deputies was overwhelmingly in favour of Germany rejoining the 'European concert' on an equal level with the established powers, several points were found to be against the interests of France and amendments have been proposed.

- Firstly, the deputies refused to allow the city of Trier and its environs the option to join the new German state. 'The turbulent events of the last hundred years,' said Defense Minister Louis Jacquard, 'have made it clear that he who controls the Rhine controls the easiest route to Paris.' Responding to his persuasive arguments, the French government voted to retain the city of Trier and its surroundings, and proposed the Rhine as the boundry between the Third Republic and the future German state.
- Secondly, the French government would also like the express right of fortifying the line of the river. Only France will be allowed to build and man forts on the Rhine, with the proviso that no forts will be built directly adjacent to German cities such as Cologne.
- Thirdly, a large number of deputies, though recognising the importance of certain areas remaining occupied whilst the Germans proved themselves up to the responsibility of becoming an independent state once more, were of the opinion that denying the infant state the vital administrative and industrial centre of Berlin was both unnecessary and a blow to German pride which may re-emerge as resentment later. These ministers proposed that Germany gain the city of Berlin immediately on the first stage, as the centre of its interim government.
- Lastly, the deputies proposed a candidate for the leadership of this new German state: the former chancellor Martin von Karreras (El Awrence

), who is believed to be retired and quietly living in Amsterdam. Contacting and reinstating this experienced leader was a proposal that was most popular with the Chamber of Deputies.

Cyrion · July 19, 2002, 07:39

Delay notification...

First: I downloaded the save (from work), but, as I have some problems with my internet connection at home (some problems= it's not working at all anymore!!

), I won't be able to post the save of my turn before Monday morning (when I come back to work!).

I'm really sorry about the inconvenience, but there is no other way I can do it...

I'll try to fix that problem next week so that I won't slow you a second time!!

A new Germany

And about Germany: Acting Prime Minister Cyrion would be glad to work toward peace in Europe by being the official Plebiscite Moniter. Turkey is of course fully neutral in this matter, being so far from Germany, and enjoying good relations with all the other european Nations (even Russia now, thanks to the diplomatic help of the French Prime Minister!

).

And yes, a Germany without Berlin as a Capital would seem a bit weird and this could cause some resentment in the German folk that all Europe could come to pay for in the coming years...

Italian Navy

The Italian Destroyers Squadron anchored off Galipoli seems to be the same that came to the Sea of Marmara earlier this year; the Turkish government thanks his italian counterpart for the immediate dismissal of the inapt navigator.

Turkey would like once again to congratulate the Italian Navy for its quick response to the situation: you are indeed Gentlemen!!

The money you graciously sent will be used to create a Sailor's widows Foundation!

JMarks · July 19, 2002, 11:44

Hey, if El Alwrence doesn't come back, could I take Germany's leadership?

The ANZAC · July 19, 2002, 13:41

Quote:

Originally posted by winterfritz Firstly, the deputies refused to allow the city of Trier and its environs the option to join the new German state.

This is completely understandable and Trier would have only possibly been handed over as a plebiscite area: there weren't any definitive yes's or no's.

Quote:

Secondly, the French government would also like the express right of fortifying the line of the river. Only France will be allowed to build and man forts on the Rhine, with the proviso that no forts will be built directly adjacent to German cities such as Cologne.

Russia agrees but also these forts should not infringe on Germany's right to use the land it has been given. ie by blocking resources that the Germans use.

Quote:

Thirdly, a large number of deputies...were of the opinion that denying the infant state the vital administrative and industrial centre of Berlin was both unnecessary and a blow to German pride

Russia finds this unacceptable. Britain and Russia both are forced to give up much of the prime realestate that we have in Germany, while France gets to keep for an extended period much of the Saar, Ruhr, and Rhineland, while we are stuck with 2 cities each. This is completely unfair and biased as France gets major production centers and we do not. So it should only be fair that Russia keep Berlin for an extended period as Russia does not have many production centers in it's occupied areas and Berlin would help tremendously.

Quote:

Lastly, the deputies proposed a candidate for the leadership of this new German state: the former chancellor Martin von Karreras (El Awrence

), who is believed to be retired and quietly living in Amsterdam. Contacting and reinstating this experienced leader was a proposal that was most popular with the Chamber of Deputies.

Russia agrees.

JamesJKirk · July 19, 2002, 23:13

Quote:

Russia finds this unacceptable. Britain and Russia both are forced to give up much of the prime realestate that we have in Germany, while France gets to keep for an extended period much of the Saar, Ruhr, and Rhineland, while we are stuck with 2 cities each. This is completely unfair and biased as France gets major production centers and we do not. So it should only be fair that Russia keep Berlin for an extended period as Russia does not have many production centers in it's occupied areas and Berlin would help tremendously.

Britain does agree that a Germany without Berlin as its immediate capitol is no Germany at all. However, I am presenting a compromise: As it now stands, Britain has 1 Occuppied Zone (OZ), and 1 Plebescite Area (PA). Russia has 2 OZs and 1 PA, and France has what looks like 5 OZs and 0 PAs.

The solution will be this:
Berlin will be exchanged with the rest of the Interim cities. Vienna will remain an OZ, and Stettin will still be a PA. To promote balance, Britain wouldn't mind if Prague's entry were to be admitted at the time of the Provisional government.
In return, France would only keep Munich as an OZ, and Cologne would be a PA, if approved. (If not Cologne, perhaps that city that starts with an "S" to the left of Munich).
Yes, Russia will lose Berlin, but it still has the Skoda Industrial Works, as well as the two traditionally German cities of Danzig and Koenigsburg. France will admit nearly all its German cities at one time, and Britain, France and Russia will all have 1 OZ and 1 PA.

Quote:

the deputies proposed a candidate for the leadership of this new German state: the former chancellor Martin von Karreras (El Awrence ), who is believed to be retired and quietly living in Amsterdam. Contacting and reinstating this experienced leader was a proposal that was most popular with the Chamber of Deputies.

Britain nominates a second candidate: Iaonnes Schroeder for German leader.

Case · July 20, 2002, 04:14

New Germany to be Nation of Dunces Warns Professor

Speaking at an academic conferance on Central Europe, Bologna Univesity's Professor Terrini has warned that the new German nation will have inadequate knowledge of many areas of modern scienfic endevour. The professor backed his claim by pointing out that the education system of the new Germany will be built upon materials seized from General AI's corrupt and ignorant regime, and the quality and scope of these materials is far below that considered standard in the other nations of Europe.

As a solution to this problem, Professor Terrini has called for the foundation of a 'Society for the Academic Advancement of Germany' (SAAG). This society would co-ordinatinate international efforts to return the quality of Germany's educational system and knowledge base to that enjoyed by the earlier German state.

winterfritz · July 20, 2002, 04:40

OOC: About German science. We're creating this civ using the 7th slot - the one thats gone - rather than the Spanish cities, right? In which case we need to hack into the .net file in order to give the Germans a reasonable amount of science as well as the German unique techs, so they can build the German units.

Also, I haven't actually notified El Awrence of his nomination for new German leader, so I'm fine with just giving the civ to Jmarks.

The ANZAC · July 20, 2002, 10:02

Russia agrees with the British proposal on cities.

OOC: Yes winterfritz and I were thinking of restoring Germany, the destroyed civ, not use Spain.

JamesJKirk · July 20, 2002, 16:15

What government would the new Germany be started in. I imagine it's in all of our interests to have it be a democracy, but perhaps we could start it in anarchy, and let it move to the second phase once it becomes a democracy and builds a Palace.

I'm not familiar w/ CivTweak, but it sounds like it won't be to hard to give Germany the desired level of science and whatnot. The only question now is, "What is the desired level of science?"

Also, what, if any, diplomatic and military restraints will it have?

Case · July 20, 2002, 19:39

Quote:

OOC: Yes winterfritz and I were thinking of restoring Germany, the destroyed civ, not use Spain.

Ah, OK

Quote:

The only question now is, "What is the desired level of science?"

How about the techs Germany starts the scenario with plus one or two more of the player's choosing? [in the order which they become available

]

winterfritz · July 20, 2002, 19:51

That Germany become a Republic or Democracy is an excellent condition. I think we should also limit the size of the German military for a while (say one or two game years, with the military being inspected for only the first year - during which period Germany wouldn't be permitted a password, so we can see whats going on.)

Cyrion · July 22, 2002, 04:50

First: here is the save, sorry for the delay!!

Not much to say this year, except that some freight was delivered, thanks to the excellent railroad network connecting many of the european cities!

And the turkish infrastructure was further developed!

In most turkish cities, the citizens were so glad with the new found Democracy that the quarter seemed like an endless celebration...

The regional elections have been held as was planned and the votes are being counted right now; the results will follow shortly!

And about Germany (if I have a right to say something on this matter

): Turkey will gladly agree to any compromise found between the 3 Occupation Nations and would welcome either Herr Martin von Karreras or Herr Ioannes Schroeder as the German leader!

Just a thought about this: why not make Germany start in Monarchy, without knowledge of Democracy (but knowing the prerequisites), and ending the occupation when they are in Demo, gifting the tech being of course forbiden?? just a thought...

And the save:

JamesJKirk · July 22, 2002, 13:39

Production and Engineering restructured in Germany to provide healthy infrastructure to new nation.

Oporto-Malaga raillink completed, rest of Iberia to soon be connected.

Britain has no problem with the Turkish proposal whatsoever.

The ANZAC · July 23, 2002, 11:13

Moscow-Odessa Line Nearing Completion!

Soon the Trans Balkan Railroad will be completed, bringing vitally mobility to the region.

Also the Russian Trade Comission has noticed that still RR bypasses are needed throughout all the Occupied Areas in Germany.

The ANZAC · July 23, 2002, 11:13

And the save

JamesJKirk · July 23, 2002, 16:06

Here's an updated version of the map, with the new (and accepted?) details of the handover. The Interim Boundary is represented by the dotted area, but this time the Provisional Boundary is everything within the final boundary minus the OZs, fairly obviously.

The ANZAC · July 23, 2002, 18:44

This proposal seems reasonable: just Russia would like to redefine the occupation areas. Russia thinks that each of the Powers should have two occupation cities. This would make our influence greater in the rebuilding. Russia would like to also occupy Pragu and it's Skoda works. Britain could also occupy Lubeck and France should give up Munich and instead occupy Dortmund and either Cologne or Stuttgart as they are closer to her and more important strategically.

Case · July 23, 2002, 20:26

*edited*