Gold, Guns & Glory Wishlist 1: Inventions and Discoveries

Comrade Tribune · January 29, 2002, 21:07

The format of Gold, Guns and Glory will allow for a LARGE number of techs. Post Inventions and Discoveries you wish to see in the game here.

Dale · January 30, 2002, 16:51

Firstly:
I'm sick of Civ-type games making no distinction between science and inventions. They are two COMPLETELY different things!
- Eg1: Metallurgy is the science, steel is the invention.
- Eg2: Free type is the science, printing press is the invention.
- Eg3: Warrior code is not a science, it's a philosophy.

Secondly:
Techs/inventions that should be in a Civ-type game as they changed the world but never have.
- Loom.
- Plow.
- Screws.
I'll probably think of others.

Comrade Tribune · January 30, 2002, 17:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Dale
Firstly:
I'm sick of Civ-type games making no distinction between science and inventions. They are two COMPLETELY different things!

YES! That´s why I differentiate between Inventions and (scientific) Discoveries. You invent a new gadget, but you discover a Natural Law.

Quote:

- Loom.
- Plow.

Excellent ideas. One reason why they might not be in, however, is that they have probably been invented before the time period. (Game starts ca. 1600 BC.)

People, don´t be so lazy!

There is little point in asking you what you want, if only one responds! When the game goes Gold, it will be too late for your input.

Straybow · May 6, 2002, 20:32

The plow (as we know it today) was invented incrementally over the course of history. The Middle Ages saw a boom in farm productivity because of the invention of the harness (which doubled the productivity of horse-drawn vehicles over older strap systems) and the unified plow (separating the root knife and the furrower in one system, allowing single-pass plowing of loose soils). Historians point to two other major farm advances during the Middle Ages. So much for the assumption of gross ignorance and backwardness…

The most recent innovation was the curved plow, devised in the late 18th-early 19th century (good ol' Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin contributed to refinements). The curved plow physically turns the soil, exposing the weed roots to the sun and air to kill them, etc. Drastically reduces the hoeing tasks, increases aeration to support biological activity, etc.

The loom is not just a frame for weaving, it has two warp frames that allow the weaver to thread the woof in a single pass with a shuttle, shifting the frames to alternate the warp. I don't know when it was invented, but long after 1600 BC. (Or maybe I've reversed the warp and woof. I'll have to get John Edwards to consult my namesake ancestors…)

Anyway, I'd say mine the old Civ3 Wishlists archive. How much do you want to steal… er, copy from Civ?

VetLegion · May 17, 2002, 20:23

copycat! steal.. er, think of your own

DarkCloud · May 18, 2002, 12:36

You may benefit somewhat from this list:
http://home.att.net/~civgames/ideas.html

Or the Civ III Ideas list compiled years ago here.

moomin · May 18, 2002, 13:26

CT: When does the game end? (1600-?)

Straybow · May 27, 2002, 13:35

Quote:

Originally posted by VetLegion
copycat! steal.. er, think of your own

I did think up my own… I compiled the Movement List and worked with harel on the Resources List, as well as many individual contributions.

After looking over Civ3 I was quite disappointed. Growing city radius alone was enough to make me less than enthused, city flipping and extreme resource limitations added dissatisfaction, and finally the loss of hp and other changes to the combat system left me cold.

Of course, having completely ignored 99% of the stupendously brilliant ideas I suggested and compiled from others for revolutionizing the movement models was to be expected. Visionless Philistines!

Straybow · May 27, 2002, 13:54

ComTrib, you have a website or something with more info about GGG??

Mark_Everson · May 27, 2002, 16:16

Hey guys what's with all the comments and requests? CT talked about this for maybe a week or two about six months ago, and that's the last evidence of any effort on his part. I think you're talking to the void

. His last post here was in January...

I only commented because this area gets so little traffic that when I see a post in the forum I usually check it out. And coming over to see people discussing a dead horse is a little disappointing

Not trying to pick on anyone, just calling 'em as I see 'em. I always expect CT to stop by at some point and either declare some progress or close the thing out

.

Cya,

Mark

Straybow · May 28, 2002, 00:33

Yup, yup. I realized shortly after asking my question that 1) I have heard of G³ before 2) there is a separate G³ forum and that 3) I have been there and read most of it.

This kind of project takes a load of work. I made a pathetic attempt at a space colonization game long ago (before Civ even existed!). Rules/flowcharts mostly, and a little interface simulator in Turbo Pascal. Yeah, that long ago.

Mark_Everson · May 28, 2002, 21:24

Hey Straybow, you must be another geezer like me... I learned to program on Basic in something like '71 . Thank goodness I'm doing Java now, OO helps a Lot.

Yeah it takes an enormous amount of work to bring a project like this home. I had initially thought it would be relatively easy to get people willing to work on Clash. Getting people to volunteer is relatively easy, but getting people to do the work they've signed up for is maybe a few chances out of 100! If you have the desire to get your toes wet in a game project, stop by the Clash web site and forum, and we'll see if we can't pull you into the dark side of the force

Cya,

Mark

Straybow · May 29, 2002, 21:48

My original nick here was don Don (see Nicks thread in Civ2 - General/Help); yes, that crazy guy with the small tiles and water resource based idea. It is a huge commitment to do actual coding, and since I know squat about Java I'd be no use. I did learn FORTRAN on a card punch back in '80, and Basic on a Trash80.

I truly used both throughout college. The languages, and I still have and use the TRS80 Pocket Computer w/1408 "steps" capacity! Not the card punch. No, I cleverly delayed my entry into the Engr program until after the transition to MS-DOS PCs.

I picked up Turbo Pascal because the student version was wonderfully cheap. Wrote a couple simple games, and did some practical programming, too. I did learn that making a coherent flow chart is about 90% of programming, with coding (assuming you know the language) being a snap. The other 90% of the work is debugging. I think testing to see if it actually does what you thought it would, game-wise, is the last 90% of the work, except of course the play-testing to see if anybody likes it. That can be left to somebody else.

So while I could participate in some aspects of structured programming, the >270% time commitment is a bear.

Mark_Everson · May 29, 2002, 21:59

Hi don Don! Good to hear you're still around these parts!

Well, so, a programming job is [Monty Python voice] right out [/Monty Python voice].

If you get a chance, drop by and check out demo 6, or give us some comments! I'm sure you'd have some useful things to say about things like population auto-migration and some of the other cool stuff we're working on now. Or just drop by the forum to chat for old-time sake...

Best of luck!

Mark

Straybow · May 30, 2002, 02:10

I had tried a couple of early demos but had trouble getting the JRE running right with Netscape 4.7x

Mark_Everson · May 30, 2002, 06:57

That's odd, the jre should have almost nothing to do with your browser...

It installs a plugin IIRC, but we're running Clash as an application. Anyway there is a section under "Attention:" on the download page that allows for diagnosing any problems if you feel like trying it again. I'm always pushing this because more early feedback from player can help us avoid design problems like IMO were committed on Civ3.

Straybow · May 30, 2002, 08:26

Some time back I tried a cople other browsers. Netscape 666 is a tool of the devil.

Didn't care for another one I tried. So I got a complete 4.79 download from ZDNet, uninstalled everything, and put it in. I reinstalled 1.3.0_01.

But since I wasn't hanging around Apolyton I didn't try any Clash demos. I guess we really should move this discussion over to the Clash forum instead of hijacking this GGG thread…

Comrade Tribune · July 7, 2002, 18:56

Quote:

Originally posted by moominparatrooper
CT: When does the game end? (1600-?)

My current plans are ~1900AD, but this is still open to revision.

Comrade Tribune · July 7, 2002, 18:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Straybow
ComTrib, you have a website or something with more info about GGG??

Sorry, no, but there are 2 other threads in this forum with a little information, and I am going to post more, soon.

Comrade Tribune · July 7, 2002, 19:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark_Everson
Hey guys what's with all the comments and requests? CT talked about this for maybe a week or two about six months ago, and that's the last evidence of any effort on his part. I think you're talking to the void

. His last post here was in January...

I only commented because this area gets so little traffic that when I see a post in the forum I usually check it out. And coming over to see people discussing a dead horse is a little disappointing

Not trying to pick on anyone, just calling 'em as I see 'em. I always expect CT to stop by at some point and either declare some progress or close the thing out

.

Cya,

Mark

It´s only 5 months, not 6.

Don´t write me off, yet.

I never promised to hurry.

Mark_Everson · July 13, 2002, 15:16

Hi CT!

I'm really looking forward to GGG, which will no doubt be ready for the important pre-Christmas sales period of 2034!

-Mark

Comrade Tribune · July 13, 2002, 19:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark_Everson
Hi CT!

I'm really looking forward to GGG, which will no doubt be ready for the important pre-Christmas sales period of 2034!

-Mark

Hi, Mark!

Well, Western Civilization might actually depart before my game is ready, but never mind, observing our Civ self-destruct will increase my understanding, making for an even more realistic game.