US prepared to go it alone - allies warned.

[Roland]

Sikander:

"But we are not going to give France a blueprint of our operation months in advance, because we fear that they will turn it over to our enemies just like they did in Serbia."

Could you please explain what you are talking about ?

"Now the new regime is getting into position, and Iran has the same reasons for being the enemy of the new regime, except that #1 above is replaced with Shiia vs Secular."

Secular ? That's why there is pretty much a consensus to have some version of sharia law, and call it a muslim Republic, I assume ?

"One way that the hard liners think that they can increase their popularity is to foment an international crisis with the U.S."

And dubya is playing along. Brilliant.

"What better way to do that than to try to minimize or destroy the gains the U.S. has made in Afghanistan by undermining the new government and allowing Al Qaida to escape?"

Iran has an interest in a stable Afghanistan (and one that clamps down on the drug trade, especially), and in the Hazara minority. Every political faction has an interest in seeing the US out of the region sooner than later, and allowing the Taliban & co a hideout would be counterproductive. Some elements in Iran may look beyond their schism and support them, but that's far from the simplistic rants from Rumsie.

"They start with an assumption popular with the tiny class of people who make up the members of the British press that the U.S. is run entirely by insane clowns..."

How can you blame us, after seeing Ronnie and dubya ?

"U.S. troops hundreds of miles from Mecca are not an affront to Islam under even the most militant interpretation of the Q'uran"

It only takes a slightly fundamentalist or political interpretation of Islam to take that as an affront.

"but are perceived as a real obstacle to the overthrow of the secular regime in Saudi Arabia."

ROTFL. Secular ? What kind of freaky definition of "secular" do you use ? LOL.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Sikander
The strategic goals of Al Qaida are not the ones stated, but to replace secular governance in the Arab world with religious governance, with of course the leadership of Al Qaida playing a prominent role.

Iraq has a secular Arab government. One could as legitimately say that the stategic goals of the US are not the ones stated, but to replace muslim governance in the Arab world with secular governance, with of course the leadership of the US playing a prominent role. It is then a matter of perspective who the good guys are.

U.S. troops hundreds of miles from Mecca are not an affront to Islam under even the most militant interpretation of the Q'uran, but are perceived as a real obstacle to the overthrow of the secular regime in Saudi Arabia.

secular???

As for attacking countries where Al Quaida are seen to operate freely, did the terrorists not mainly organise themselves in the US? It seems to me that the US and Saudi Arabia are the two primary 'hosting' countries for Al Quaida. Should Europe invade the US to 'wipe out terrorism'?

Why is there never any talk of invading Saudi Arabia? They have one of the most brutal fundamentalist governments in the world. OBL is a Saudi! Or how about Egypt, who sends hundreds of men to prison each year for the crime of being gay? Maybe we should invade Turkey for comitting genocide and ethnic cleansing against the Kurds? But wait.... they are our allies!

Anyone who thinks this is about 'world security' or human rights is amazingly naive. It is about the upcoming US mid-term elections and cheap campaigning. It is about reopening countries to American capitalism and global corporatism. It is about securing the US hegemony.

[Dis]

U.S. = bad

I expect the entire world to declare war on the U.S. within the next 50 years. And I expect the U.S. to win. might = right . like I said in the other thread. war = bad. and the U.S. shall do bad things to win.

long live the U.S.!!!!

[Roland]

Such a war would have losers only. But for the troll: Your decadence is internal, and your downfall will be from internal strives.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by faded glory
Ya AH, and in the end your lazyness and cowardness (cowardness ?) will be the sole reason why america lives and prospers, and why Australia wont.

That's the funniest part - Our standard of living sh*ts on that of the average American and you don't even know it

Same goes for a lot of "Eurocom" countries too. They have a much higher standard of living than you

Oh yeah! Canada does too

You think this is troll? Actually its quite true.

[ZoboZeWarrior]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
The Guardian: 'Mr Rumsfeld also said the US has "any number of reports" that Iran has been contributing to instability inside Afghanistan by arming Afghan factions.'

Reports from Santa Claus that must be. The Iranian government was an enemy of the Taliban from day one, and has always tried to topple them.

It is way Talibans recieved weapons from western. Because Western wouldn't that Iran faction control Afghanistan ...

[ZoboZeWarrior]

Originally posted by Roland
The "No" will be slow to come as long as jerks like Schröder, slimeballs like Blair and utter morons like Chirac are in power, [...]

Yes Mr Chirac...

We have new election in few time. I hope he will not be re-elected. Because in this case, our Fair President while have big trouble with justice (I hope so)...

His speeches about Afghanistans were pathetics...
"Dear Frenchme, dear frenchwomen ... bla bla ...".
He makes me laught ! Not a good thing for a President !

Our former president Mitterand, no more honest of course, had still more guts and had more charism.

[Roland]

Corruption and fluffy blah, yes.

And what was it he had to say about arabs in one of his Paris mayor campaigns ? Add hypocrisy.

[ZoboZeWarrior]

Originally posted by Sikander
If their government is not meeting their needs, then they should replace it. Every nation pays the price for it's leadership.

Removing Saddams Family from Irak leadership is a good thing.
But he US does that is not for human purpose or not only protecting them-self against terror-act. But to put a puppet which will give them the control of the area.

The new 'democratic president' will serve the purpose of USA, not of his civilians.

[ZoboZeWarrior]

Originally posted by Roland
Corruption and fluffy blah, yes.

And what was it he had to say about arabs in one of his Paris mayor campaigns ? Add hypocrisy.

Who Chirac or Mitterand ? Be clear ...

Chirac has no political project but be president ...
Mitterand had too ...

But the last one was more capable. The first one is too pathetic.

[Roland]

Originally posted by ZoboZeWarrior


Who Chirac or Mitterand ? Be clear ...

Chirac. I'm not aware Mitterand ever ran for Paris mayor ?

[faded glory]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


That's the funniest part - Our standard of living sh*ts on that of the average American and you don't even know it

Same goes for a lot of "Eurocom" countries too. They have a much higher standard of living than you

Oh yeah! Canada does too

Ya right. I think there about a dozen sources to prove you wrong.

Most Euro's dont even have cars


Everybody in america has cars

You think this is troll? Actually its quite true.

No it isnt. You said it isnt, you just trolled for the hell of it

[Eli]

Well, at least now you can see who are your allies and "allies".

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
That's the funniest part - Our standard of living sh*ts on that of the average American and you don't even know it

Let's put this assertion to the test, shall we? Would you mind telling me exactly where Australia and a lot of "Eurocom" countries rate in comparison to the US according to the official stats on the subject?

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by faded glory
Most Euro's dont even have cars

Everybody in america has cars

You see? This is the sort of comment that makes us Europeans think that you Americans don't know the first thing about Europe except what your gradmother told you.

What on Earth makes you think that most Europeans don't have cars? What a crock of bull!

It reminds me of one time I invited an American phyicist to come and give us a talk (forgotten what on now). During the talk he wanted to make an analogy and said 'It's just like the electric windows in your car.....oh wait, you don't have electric windows in Europe, do you?' and explained it in a different way. We all just looked at each other thinking - what planet is this guy living on. He was serious - he seriously believed that electric windows hadn't made it over to Europe!

Just for your gratification, my car has electric windows,.... and air conditioning and seat heating and .....

[Roland]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

... according to the official stats on the subject?

Those are the official stats on living standards ?

RJ:

On the other hand, Americans expect european cars to be like theirs. One guy got all worked up about the lack of cupholders. And he didn't believe me that they are not there simply because nobody wants them. Had to be some commie conspiracy to him...

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Roland
Those are the official stats on living standards ?

The HDI stats are the closest I could find. If you know of any better stats, please tell me about them.

[Natan]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune


1- Spreading their religion is not terrorism. Where´s the problem?

Khomeini style Shi'ite fundamentalism is not just a religion - it's a terror ideology.

2- Disagreement with the new Afghani government is not a crime, either.

If we left our allies in the NA and other Afghan movements to suffer at the hands of Iranian backed fundamentalist militias, you'd be complaining too.

3- Accusing Iran of helping people to escape to Saudi Arabia doesn´t make sense. If Saudi-Arabia really harbours terrorists, why do the US not threaten Saudi-Arabia?

Because we think diplomatic pressure will be more effective on that front.

[August Borms]

Originally posted by faded glory

Most Euro's dont even have cars

Everybody in america has cars

Car density in 1998:

(number of people per car)

Australië 2,2
Belgium/Luxemburg 2,3
Canada 2,2
Denmark 2,9
Germany 2
England 2,2
Finland 2,7
France 2,3
Italy 1,8
Japan 2,7
Morocco 25,2
Nederland 2,7
New-Zealand 2,1
Norway 2,5
Austria 2,2
Portugal 3,3
Spain 2,6
Turkey 17,8
United States 2,1
Sweden 2,4
Switserland 2,2

[Roland]

Well HDI is a funny mix. But according to the HDI, going to a crappy highschool and then having to attend college to learn something increases development. I always found that quite odd.

Anyway, what is the standard of living ? Let's see horsie bring a definition. And the figures. And then, what the average American is.

[faded glory]

I completely agree. about "Khomeism" being a terrorist ideology.

Well, at least now you can see who are your allies and "allies".

European Chickens...cant trust em'. Bunch of damn chickens and cowards. Always been like that. From Munich to Market Garden.

It seems when **** hits the fan, the only ones who back us are Turkey, Saudi Arabia,Kuwait and Israel.


The odd-coalition. But who gives a ****.


Saddam, here we come.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Natan
Khomeini style Shi'ite fundamentalism is not just a religion - it's a terror ideology.

I agree, but one could say the same thing about Sharon style Israeli Judaism.

European Chickens...cant trust em'. Bunch of damn chickens and cowards. Always been like that. From Munich to Market Garden.

Seems to me that it is the American hawks who are the cowards. They like to bomb countries from afar with their robot drones and missiles. Too chicken to try and sort things out like reasoned human beings - its easier to just push a button....

[faded glory]

Seems to me that it is the American hawks who are the cowards. They like to bomb countries from afar with their robot drones and missiles. Too chicken to try and sort things out like reasoned human beings - its easier to just push a button....

Oh ya, didnt we try that? It was clear the talib's werent gonna hand over mr. Osama. We had been pressuring them for 3 years. How much longer would you have us wait? Till more attacks came???? Your arguement is illogical.


As for the drones....would you want us to drop in a 300,000 with no air support or tanks? Then we could even up the score?

Brilliant!!!

We've got a brilliant General amongst us!

[Jon Miller]

we have triwed to sort things out

it has not worked

sometimes violence is the only reasonable answer (the other is giving up)

Jon Miller

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by faded glory
Oh ya, didnt we try that? It was clear the talib's werent gonna hand over mr. Osama. We had been pressuring them for 3 years. How much longer would you have us wait? Till more attacks came???? Your arguement is illogical.

Let's try this one more time for Mr Thicky sall we..... You should try not to cause these ****-ups in the first place! If the US had a policy of helping poor countries rather than trying to subjugate them to its capitalist authority, none of this would ever have happened!

In the case of Afghanistan the US supplied the Afghans with weapons for years, and then when the Russians left the US couldn't care less any more. Don't you see that this is the sort of thing that leads to anti-western governments?

Now, of course, once the Taliban or someone like them are in power they should be removed for the good of the people in Afghanistan. I have been saying this since early last year, but it takes the attack on the WTC to open your eyes!

Are you really this stupid or are you just trolling?

As for the drones....would you want us to drop in a 300,000 with no air support or tanks? Then we could even up the score?

I would rather you just airdropped Bush and Rumsfeld armed with assualt rifles. That would solve the problem right away....

[Roland]

Always depends. Why treat a flu with the chainsaw ?

Putting pressure on Iraq is a workable strategy. You might just be a little more credible if you didn't scare the crap out of your potential allies, like Jordan.

About Iran, it is just hot rhetoric helping the fundamentalists. And for North Korea, you'd have to rely more on the psychologists, in the absence of wanting to pay the price for a war with them and possibly China.

[faded glory]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh


Let's try this one more time for Mr Thicky sall we..... You should try not to cause these ****-ups in the first place! If the US had a policy of helping poor countries rather than trying to subjugate them to its capitalist authority, none of this would ever have happened!

Oh ya moron.
Blame the Capitalists and American Imperialists. The fact remains, THE COMMUNISTS created this problem. We ****in stepped in to help these people fight off the Red thugs. They were fighting before we armed them. The only thing we gave the afghan Resistance was Stinger missiles. We didnt cause any ****ups. Blame your comrades in the Kremlin When all else failed in 1987, Russians ****in Carpet-Bombed whole Afghan cities. They didnt give a ****...they are the root of this problem. The country was going through some social problems, and the Soviets decided to intervene. Big ****in mistake, they screwed up. Not us...admit it...stop ****in trolling for once and think about what your saying.

Oh ya...we do sort of look out for poor countrys.. (cough, Afghanistan) and prevented millions from starvation. Oh wait...that doesnt count

In the case of Afghanistan the US supplied the Afghans with weapons for years, and then when the Russians left the US couldn't care less any more. Don't you see that this is the sort of thing that leads to anti-western governments?

We bought back 90% of our Stinger Missiles How did the stingers contribute to there being a civil war? Yes, anti-western governments are bred bye moronic losers who think god is on there side like omar and osama.
Of course we trained the Mujhaddeen....But we saved more afghan lives bye doing it.

Now, of course, once the Taliban or someone like them are in power they should be removed for the good of the people in Afghanistan. I have been saying this since early last year, but it takes the attack on the WTC to open your eyes!

No you didnt.....I thought you were opposed to the bombing I guess you figured they would throw in there turbans and have elections after the civil war huh?

[Bereta_Eder]

I get a warm and fuzzy feeling inside about the EU

EU GODAMMIT

Down with american oppression

[Garth Vader]

The HDI stats are the closest I could find. If you know of any better stats, please tell me about them.

I liked those, they showed that we kick ass

[Saint Marcus]

I hope Europe lets the US fight alone.

1. We shouldn't fight in a war that isn't ours. We have nothing to gain by invading North Korea or Iraq (Iraq and France have relatively good relations).

2. We shouldn't throw money away that we need for our economy, social security, education, heath care, foreign aid, etc.

3. By not fighting the war alongside the US, NATO will weaken and eventually collapse, giving way for a EU only military organisation. Plus, by fighting alongside the US we will never get rid of depending on that country too much. We need to let this whole alliance end right here and now.

4. The US never listens when we tell them to do something, so why should we listen to them? A friendship should work both ways.

5. By fighting in an American war we expose ourselves to retaliatory attacks.

6. By not fighting, while the US does fight, Europe can grow more importance as a diplomatic superpower.

7. By not fighting (and saving money), while the US does fight (and throws away billions of dollars), we can become the world's #1 economic power.

etc
etc
etc
etc