The reason for the CTP2 forum's revival?

[Hermann the Lombard]

Originally posted by Locutus
I'm seriously considering to 'host' a succession game myself - I don't really have time for that either but if it can bring that tradition back to live again I think I'm willing to make the sacrifice (it's less time consuming than MP games).

AHA! You just volunteered! (At minimum, you didn't step back fast enough!)

If you host a succession game, I'll be happy to play in it. My preference would be for a "Cradle" game this time...though it might be *very* interesting to use the same map and start position under Cradle and MedMod in parallel (or 'Poly, or "Patch" or any combo).

[Oerdin]

Originally posted by Assur
Oerdin, thanks for the info but fortunately I found it in a shop for just a a few $ more than at Amazon.

Leonidas, I knew all that (that's why I was so disappointed in CTP2: it has such great features, but the weak AI made it unplayable) except that I never played the mods.

Now I'm about to start my first cradle game

Just out of curiosity which version did you end up getting? English, French, or German?

[August Borms]

The English version, fortunately

[DeanToth]

i can't speak for others, but I had put Call to Power II on the shelf for many months in anticipation of CivIII....

CivIII is such a disappointment.... Yes it does have some neat little features, like the strategic and luxury goods and such, and it does LOOK GOOD graphically, but overall the evolution of these turn-based civ-games (for me at least) is best envisioned in CTPII.... Public works and stackable armies alone make the game better for me (others say this is a "tired" argument).

[Tamerlin]

Hi everybody,

So there is a CTP2 resurgence and most of you agree, at least to some extent, to link this phenomenon to Civ 3 and the disappointment it has generated. Though, as I read the various posts many other reasons have been exposed :
- The game can be customized
- A very active community
- Good concepts (public work, combat system, armies...)
- A rich gameplay (11 governments, special units...)
- Quality of the mods we can find at Apolyton,
- The good job of Locutus
- Etc, etc.

A a newcomer, I can play the "Candid". A as I don't really know what is the equivalent in anglo-saxon litterature, let me explain what is a candid for us french. Candid is the name of a famous character depicted a long time ago in french classical litterature, the name of this famous character is now used to quickly describe someone who is very naive, simple and pure (the later I fear I'am not... ). "To play the Candid" roughly means acting as someone who don't know a subject and can thus think without being influenced by any preconception and thus as someone with can have an unbiased opinion. As I registered a few days ago, thanks to Locutus, I'am not too involved in these forums to display a biased opinion, at least I think so.

I discovered Civ2 in 1997 and played it endlessly for several years. I was rather disappointed by CTP1, good new ideas mixed with very annoying game events and a bad time flow. I bought CTP2 a few months after the game was released, although the game was "overbugged" I really appreciated the experience and almost stopped playing "Civ2 : Test of time".
Meanwhile I fell on Apolyton Site and read some people were designing "Mods" and moreover that a Mod to play CTP2 "as it should be" was available. As I'am reluctant to play mods which are "changing" the concepts of the original game the Apolyton Pack appeared as a boon.

When I heard Civ3 was to be published I stopped playing CTP2 and anxiously waited for the release and regularly checked Apolyton and the Civ3 official site for news and hints. As soon as the game was released I bought the US version and started playing the tutorial. I knew what to expect from the graphisms (which I don't really appreciate) but had to discover the new concepts of Civ3. They were indeed very interesting and were greatly improving the original game. I greatly appreciated the game, but as Primarch wrote it I found the game lacked something I couldn't really figure out.

Yes, what a pleasure to see your culture and frontiers growing, at last we don't have to move these spies and planes no more, entire stacks are no more wiped out after a lost fight, at last we have a powerful diplomatic system, etc. But I got quickly bored to move all this workers at every corner of my ever growing nation, I got angry when a newly conquered city reverted to its original owner although the said city was garrisoned with an army powerful enough to invade another nation, and what to say about the fact this said army had vanished in the process... ).

Basically, I think Civ3 is a very good game which, in spite of its great new concepts, is less funny to play than its predecessor and moreover than CTP2.

There is another thing which really bothered me a lot. The subject I'am about to write about is a sensible one and I would like everybody here to understand I don't want to hurt anybody. If someone feels hurt about my words, I sincerelly apologize in advance. ).
I have not appreciated at all the hasty removal of Fundamentalism as a goverment in Civ3 although I'am perfectly understanding the reason behind this. Though I have never used this government form as a player, Fundamentalism is a part of our history since many centuries and should be included in any game pretending to simulate the growth of competing nations throughout history.
Fundamentalism could have been implemented as an option when you create a new game for example, a warning could have been displayed when you select use this option...
In a way, I'am considering Infogrames has judged me unable to make the difference between a game and a terrible reality.

Considering the pure gameplay, Alfred Hitchcock used to say "Better the villain, better the movie". In CTP2, Fascist and Theocratic governments near your border are annoying neighbors that make for "excellent" villains.

For all these reasons I'am coming back to CTP2 although I will certainly give Civ3 another chance.

But, are there other reasons ? Yes.

So I decided I would rather play CTP2 rather than Civ3. This naturally bring me back to Apolyton and all the mods available. This new interest prompted me to better check the mods and news in relation with CTP2. I discovered a very active community of people regularly exchanging point of views about every aspects of the game, people actively promoting their favorite game and constantly trying to improve the said game.
Last week, I contacted the creators of Apolyton which kindly and quickly redirected me towards Locutus which replied as kindly and quickly, a very good starting point.
Last saturday night I decided to check the forum and found the thread started by Locutus. I discovered people coming from almost every corner of the world, people very different from each other, people with different cultures, backgrounds and histories, sometimes weird though (what a curious idea to be a soccer fan in the USA ). I decided to register immediately and post a reply to "Halt, who goes there thread ?" even though I believed no one would care about a totally unknown newbie who has never contributed to Apolyton before.

So why is there a CTP2 resurgence ?

1) In my opinion, some people have been disappointed by Civ3 and have looked elsewhere while others have unearthed CTP2 and found the game was more funny to play and even more so with a mod downloaded from Apolyton. Some others have certainly decided to give the game a chance as the price diminished.

2) The CTP2 community is very active and is constantly exchanging ideas, the forums are prooving everyday the game is alive although it has been abandoned by Activision. For a casual visitor or a potential newbie it is very important and stimulating to see some people are striving to improve the game, are achieving wonderful results, are working together to solve problems and are thinking about new perspectives. Somewhere, you feel the urge to be part of this whole...

3) The tone of the CTP2 threads is very refreshing, I have found adult individuals engaged in constructive debates, tolerant of each others ideas and with a solid sense of humor. All the members of this forum and Locutus have to be credited for this.


Though I'am sure I could find more, I think the three aforementioned points are the major reasons behind the CTP2 resurgence.

Respect to everybody in there !

Jeff

[Immortal Wombat]

Good post Tamerlin. Isn't Locutus great

I liked Candide.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Good post Tamerlin. Isn't Locutus great

I liked Candide.

Thank you Immortal Wormbat,

Yes, Locutus is great !

[Tamerlin]

Ooooops !

Sorry for the spelling Immortal Wombat.

[Immortal Wombat]

Quick, edit it

[TheArsenal]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
I discovered people coming from almost every corner of the world, people very different from each other, people with different cultures, backgrounds and histories, sometimes weird though (what a curious idea to be a soccer fan in the USA ).
Jeff

Yep, its weird. But US soccer fans ponder what a curious idea it is that the French came completely out of NOWHERE a few years back to be the best team in the world. One day terrible, the next day great.

Resurgence: I have to say, I've noted a considerable pick up in traffic even in the couple of months I've been around. When I first started lurking, there was an average of two posts a day. Maybe.

[Dale]

Tamerlin:



Good post, well thought out, and totally agreed.

[child of Thor]

yeah great post,
and it's good to have more peeps over here to give CTP2 the chance it deserves purely on the merrits of the modding community.
Hmmm... I wonder how long before someone DL's as 'Wormbat' I wish it was my name

IW - grab 'Immortal Wormbat' before it can become your Nemisis! I picture an ever lasting wombat helping people with Slic and graphics etc and then an Insideous ever lasting winged worm undoing all your good work - quick kill it before it can be born!
(Sorry too much Grog last night!)

[Locutus]

Thanks for the kind words, Jeff...

But great post, well-thought out points

[Dale]

ALL HAIL OUR IMMORTAL CTP2 SOVEREIGN LOCUTUS!!!!



*bows before him*

ZAPPPP..................

*I have been assimilated*

[Locutus]

[Tamerlin]

Hi everybody,

- "All resistance is futile !"
- "What do you mean, you don't know who I'am, I'am Tamaaaaaaargh..."


Thanks for the comments about my post, I really appreciate.

I only have one regret, I don't have the computer science skill required to make mods or to debate with you about modding. A huge number of posts on the CtP2 forums will remain forever a mystery for me.

- "Take a SLIC file, for examp..."
- "What ? Don't play with me, do you really think I'am dumb enough to believe a file can be slick !"
- "... !"

The only way I can contribute to the mods designed by the CtP2 Apolyton community consists in translating a mod's text files in french. I'am currently working on a translation of the Apolyton Pack I hope to finish next week.

As I've read somewhere a new version of the Apolyton Pack is about to be released I think I will create a new thread in the near future. It could be interesting to think about the various ways to ease a translation or update one everytime a new version of a mod is released.

Perhaps a french translation of the Apolyton Pack will attract some french speaking newbies like me and contribute to the renewal of CtP2.


"We should all prepare, for when the stars are right Great Locutus will come."

[Dale]

Jeff:

Once the Apolyton Translation to French is complete for the current version, there's no need to change it for V2.0. I'm only updating the AI texts to the latest and greatest that we've developed, so nothing will change in the GL. All the unit stats and stuff come directly from the files.

Good luck with the translation.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Dale
Jeff:

Once the Apolyton Translation to French is complete for the current version, there's no need to change it for V2.0. I'm only updating the AI texts to the latest and greatest that we've developed, so nothing will change in the GL. All the unit stats and stuff come directly from the files.

Hi Dale,

Thank you for the information, I would have sent you an e-mail before the end of the week.

As I told it before I still hope to end it next week while I'am on holidays.

Best regards.

[Cookie Monster]

First off let me just say that I love CTP2 and CTP!!!!!!

Now that said I'm just wondering why can't I seem to play MP? I have the latest server.dat as per the FAQ #23. Installed it correctly but everytime I log on there are 0 players in all the hosted sites. Where is everyone?

One thought occured to me and I was wondering if this had anything to do with it. I usually log on with modswapper selecting the original game. Should I modswap to cradle or apolyton pack then log on to see if anyone is there?

I'm desparate to play!

[Immortal Wombat]

Installed it correctly but everytime I log on there are 0 players in all the hosted sites. Where is everyone?

CtP2 sold like 20 copies, and half of them buggered off to Civ3. two thirds of what's left simply play SP, and the chances that you and Oerdin are online at the same time are very small.

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

CtP2 sold like 20 copies, and half of them buggered off to Civ3. two thirds of what's left simply play SP, and the chances that you and Oerdin are online at the same time are very small.

Still it's a shame though. At least MP works in CTP/CTP2 and it worked right out of the box.

[Gazablanca]

Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich

Still it's a shame though. At least MP works in CTP/CTP2 and it worked right out of the box.

Yes,and at least we can play multiplayer without paying for the privilege(ala Civ 3 expansion pack)

[DeanToth]

Originally posted by Tamerlin

the tone of the CTP2 threads is very refreshing, I have found adult individuals engaged in constructive debates, tolerant of each others ideas and with a solid sense of humor. All the members of this forum and Locutus have to be credited for this.


Jeff

Hi

Yes I am rather disappointed by the non-constructive defensiveness of the "CIV III" forums (sorry to any rabid civIII'ers) but everytime I've mentioned what I think are areas for improvement in CivIII i get the old "If you don't like it, change the channel" argument. Or, "go work for Firaxis if you think you know so much" . . . "CTPII sold like 1000 copies so who cares" or my favorite one: "go back to CTPII if you like it so much" (I got that one down already ;-)

Additionally, many of these types of comments come from those who haven't actually played CTPII and so I think they are missing the point. They often respond with "CivIII is way better than CivII" - - well DUH.. no one is arguing that point. I think they think I am talking about Civ2 when I say CTP2!!!

Anyway, the cooler heads prevail here. I have to stay out of those forums now cuz my big mouth could get me in trouble.



"still waiting for the Civ4 patch to CivIII" -Dean

[DeanToth]

Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich
wondering why can't I seem to play MP? I have the latest server.dat as per the FAQ #23. Installed it correctly but everytime I log on there are 0 players in all the hosted sites.

I'm desparate to play!

Firstly, if you haven't done so, go check out the multiplay registry!

Secondly, I too have had some problems even after copying the new servers.dat file. Besides there being no one on the server, I often get a "entering lobby" warning that just sits there forever.

On one of the servers, a "connection lost" popup appears every 5 seconds. Another poster has suggested that these are just problems on those servers and I tend to agree.

PS - this happens on non-modded CTPII and with a DSL.

PPS - i am soon to be done with my tourny game and will be down to play some MP...

[Locutus]

From listening to MPers and reading various clan and online gaming sites (Game League, Battlefield), I'd say there should be at least 2 or 3 dozen people out there who still play CtP2 MP on a more or less regular basis. Of course, being online at exactly the same moment as these people requires some luck, I suppose that if you're really looking for a game you should try to contact (email/ICQ) some of the people in the MP registry (and register there yourself), rather than waiting for them to come online in the lobbies...

[Oerdin]

Yeah, you should register at the MP thread and check out a few of the clan web sites. At a bare minimium you should be able to find a dozen or so people you can email or ICQ to set up a game.

[Cookie Monster]

Thanks all for the advice. I'll have to look into registering here. I checked out some of the clans but they didn't interest me. I just like to log on find someone to play and play. Anyway I'm gonna have a ton of free time next month so until then can't wait.

[General Ike]

i haven't read all the thread yet, but it is the various units and goverments that CTP2 have. one of my favorite goverments was "Corprate Repulic". and the Gundam-like war walker. if i was doing a mod for Civ3 (any Civ3 modmakers reading this should take note), i would try to bring in as many of the goverments and units of CTP2 to a mod in Civ3.

[DeanToth]

General Ike:
There are many reasons I feel CTP2 is superior to Civ3, but the ones you list are high on my list.

Civ3's tech tree and unit choices seem limited. The choices of government are EXTREMELY limited! There are like 5 governments in Civ3 compared to a dozen or so in CTP2.

I like the Theocracy, Monarchy, Technocracy, and Virtual Democracy the most.

Civ3 gives us no leeway with gov'ts - which on top of the ridiculous "worker" method of placing tile improvements - instead of Public Works points - makes Civ3 a decidedly inferior "civ-style" game.

As another person posted elsewhere, there is such a thing as "CTP-phobia"....

When one tries to point out shortcomings to Civ3 on the forums, you get a lot of people responding with wholehearted antagonism rather than answering the points listed..

I feel that Firaxis had this same phobia in designing Civ3.

On the topic of workers, No "real world" empire ever had a solitary group(s) of people going around building EVERY SINGLE public improvement (such as roads, damns, irrigation, etc). Instead, the Public Works model works much better in that an entire governments' resources are poured into getting local workers to build local improvements.

There are many more arguments I could make, but I've made them elsewhere in other posts...

Perhaps a new thread here discussing the problems with Civ3 would help elucidate other issues. (there are such threads on the Civ3 forum, but you run into too many CTP-phobics there)


On the bright side, the expansion pack recently announced by Firaxis will indeed address some issues such as unit stacking and group-bombarding... so this is a great improvement... but fundamental game-mechanics such as PW and combination army attacks (where you have "flank" and "rear rank" attacks in a group, as well as Army Standing - peacy,alert, at war) are still not addressed.

These excellent improvements which the Activision team made are completely ignored in Civ3 - making Civ3 more of a Civ2.5 game... booo! :-(