Civil Wars???

DJ · February 9, 2002, 00:39

I'm not sure but was this feature, which splits an empire, get taken out in this game? Maybe I skipped over a page in the manual or something, but I haven't found anything on the civil war concept.

ColdWizard · February 9, 2002, 00:50

no civil wars in civ3

zergling · February 9, 2002, 00:55

and that is sad.. I love civil wars..

Gatekeeper · February 9, 2002, 04:02

Quote:

Originally posted by ColdWizard
no civil wars in civ3

Good God. Is this another result of "dumbing down" the Civilization series?

Civ II had civil wars. Come to think of it, it also had farmland, a good combat system and Wonder movies. Civ I had cities that rebelled and joined your civilization w/o you lifting a finger and natural disasters.

Why do I get the impression that when Brian Reynolds left, TPTB made sure to *not* use anything that may have been concocted by him in terms of code, features and whatnot?

**sigh**

CYBERAmazon

notyoueither · February 9, 2002, 04:10

Quote:

Originally posted by CYBERAmazon
Good God. Is this another result of "dumbing down" the Civilization series?
CYBERAmazon

No, it's another example of how Poly gets haunted by the ghosts of civs past.

Salve

Ironikinit · February 9, 2002, 06:25

Civil wars were OK, but how much could you really miss them? Sometimes when you took an AI capital they'd have a civil war and be totally crippled. Once you took their capital they should've been crippled enough, really.

Farmland... people complain about the tedium of pushing workers around, then somebody wants farmland brought back so there's yet another thing to order workers to do.

Wonder movies... yeah, I guess I'd miss them if I watched stuff like that. Next somebody will cry because the credits aren't as detailed.

IMO, simpler<>stupider. Civ 2 may well have been more complex than Civ 3. Life and Monopoly are probably more complex than chess, too.

The Andy-Man · February 9, 2002, 12:33

if you have high unhappiness, your cities should start to rebel. so this would create more nations, with some of them being potential super powers (USA, Holland was MAJOR power in 17th C)

Ironwood · February 9, 2002, 13:08

What I think would be cool is if, on a standard map with seven civs, a city that goes through multiple turns of unhappiness, but has no neighboring civ to defect to, could (very slight chance) become a whole new civ (particularly if it is at the very frontier of a civ, thus being under the "cultural influence" of "barbarian populations.")

Likewise I think it would be cool if, rather than simply restarting a civ somewhere else if there's room, it would pull a random civ from the pool of available civs and start it fresh.

Also, it would be cool if there were a very slight chance of a city, having been invaded by barbarians, rather than being sacked, could actually become a new civ. With the possibility of playing 16, there's still room for more if you start with 7.

And, of corse, coolest would be to play on a huge world with two or three major continents, and start all 16 on the *same continent.* Many would be eliminated rather quickly, and get restarted (several turns behind) elsewhere in the world.

Oh yeah, I had an idea for that. That is another thread, though.

steelehc · February 9, 2002, 22:36

Quote:

USA, Holland was MAJOR power in 17th C

I may be missing something, are you implying that the USA came from Holland? Or that the USA was a major power in the seventeenth century? Or that Holland was the Superpower of the time?

None of these are true, which is why I ask. The US came from Britain, did not exist in the 17th century, and Holland was outshadowed by Britain, France, and Spain.

Steele

PS:Civil wars would add a great deal to the game, IMO.

TinCow · February 10, 2002, 00:48

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=39872

The Andy-Man · February 10, 2002, 15:27

ok, USA came from england and wasnt a great power till 20th C.

Holland was a major power in 17th, the richest nation of the time and one of the biggest navies. its credit limit let it down though - it borrowed way to much and quickly lost its hod as a power - but for a while they were one of the strongest.

lockstep · February 10, 2002, 15:32

Quote:

Originally posted by CYBERAmazon
Civ I had cities that rebelled and joined your civilization w/o you lifting a finger

And so has Civ3.

Gatekeeper · February 11, 2002, 02:06

Quote:

Originally posted by lockstep

And so has Civ3.

True. But the criteria used by Civ I was different — they didn't have culture programmed into the code at that point in the game's history (BTW, I think culture is quite interesting). Hmm ... I had the impression that Civ I city rebelling was a somewhat random thing ... any idea of what the exact criteria was? I would assume the stronger — militarily and scientifically — the more likely a foreign city would join your civilization. The only problem with that on Civ I was that it automatically put you at war with the civ the city was rebelling against. I would assume that war is not an automatic result of "culture" flips in Civ III.

CYBERAmazon

Grrr · February 11, 2002, 02:24

Why is this forum constantly discussing and concluding the same things?

To reiterate:

Quote:

Remember the following message in Civ2:

Quote:

As the dust settles on Berlin, what remains of the German empire has split into the loyal German factor and the rebel French factor.

I loved spliting civ's like this. Sadly this feature is missing in Civ3. I would like it reimplemented, but slightly differently...

A civil war should only break out if the civ is one of the top 25% most powerful. The civ should not split neatly like in Civ2, but be a mess. Cities close to a civ whose culture of which they are in awe, should culturally deflect.
Of the other cities, the citizens should be loyal in a ratio of the culture of that city to twice the culture of the average city of that empire, ie, the city with average culture has equal amounts of both nationalities. If a city has more loyal citizens, it remains a German city. If it has more rebel cities, it becomes a French (or whatever) city.

For instance the German empire had 7 cities:

Berlin which I captured, and trigered the Civil War
Leipzig which has a cultural value of 28
Hamburg which has a cultural value of 22
Konigsberg which has a cultural value of 16
Frankfurt which has a cultural value of 4 and is near my border
Munich which has a cultural value of 10
Heidelburg which has a cultural value of 0

Frankfurt becomes mine due to the fact that it is near my border, and they are in awe of my culture.
The average of 28,22,16,10,0 is roughly 15.
Therefore
For every 30 citizens in Leipzig, 28 will be loyal Germans, 2 will be rebel French. The city will remain German.
For every 30 citizens in Hamburg, 22 will be loyal Germans, 8 will be rebel French. The city will remain German.
For every 30 citizens in Konigsberg, 16 will be loyal Germans, 14 will be rebel French. The city will become French.
For every 30 citizens in Munich, 10 will be loyal Germans, 20 will be rebel French. The city will become French.
For every 30 citizens in Heidelberg, none will be loyal Germans, 30 will be rebel French. The city will become French.

French citizens in Germany will be unhappy or resisting, and German citizens in France will be unhappy or resisting, in the same way as when one captures a city.

Of course, a Civ this size shouldn't split.

kimmygibler · February 11, 2002, 02:43

"Life and Monopoly are probably more complex than chess, too."

lol man that's comical...

If chess is too simple for you, you should try Hungry Hungry Hippos. That gives the brain a real workout...

The Andy-Man · February 11, 2002, 11:09

snap i the all time brain tester. and a bird puller to.