Ideas for v1.18f? - Page 3

Spec · February 16, 2002, 02:36

2 things I'd add in the following patch would be to be able to wake all units of the same kind all at once, just like when upgrading them. (it would really help with ICBMs). And also, when I have 60 infantry, that are all fortifed, and I decide to upgrade them all at once(shift+u) they shouldn't get activated, they should stay fortified.

Spec.

Spec · February 16, 2002, 02:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamrat X
I want the GoTo-box back, like in CIV2 and SMAC. This drawing a line buisness is absolutely crap!

Especially if you have a large empire.

Bring back the GoTo-box, Firaxis. Pretty please with sugar on?

You have it already silly boy, it's Ctrl+Shift+G. The go to screen will appear.

Zoid · February 17, 2002, 12:38

Quote:

Originally posted by fezick31

CTRL+SHIFT+G brings up the goto box. They just didn't mention it in the manual (at least i didn't find it).

OK, thanks!

Zoid · February 17, 2002, 12:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Spectator

You have it already silly boy, it's Ctrl+Shift+G. The go to screen will appear.

Yes, fezick already said so. I stand corrected (and somewhat ashamed

)

davidttm · February 17, 2002, 19:21

The patch has fixed some major hair-pulling interface difficulties for me. Here is a smallish one that gets me during every game turn.

I like to optimize that Science Ratio to spend the least while still getting the minimum time to research.

The thing is, I have to watch it like a hawk. If I slide it to 70% and let go it often jumps up or down. If I click a hair to the right it won't move. If I click two hairs to the right it jumps more than one increment (eg. not from 70% to 80% but up to 90%

).

Unless its just ham-handed me it would be great if some way were devised to set this with one click and get on with other things.

notyoueither · February 17, 2002, 20:17

Try the + and - icons.

They move the slider 10% at a time.

Salve

Willem · February 17, 2002, 20:31

Ooops, never mind. Just ignore me.

The_Aussie_Lurker · February 17, 2002, 22:32

Hi ADG,
First of all I should point out that my idea for sharing of fortresses and cities applied only to alliances and not to MDP!! If you were allied to 2 nations and they went to war with eachother, then I guess that any city of the cities would not be conquerable as long as your units are there (unless that civ is prepared to go to war with you as well, or vice versa.) Of course, such a situation would inevitably lead to both sides demanding that you cancel the alliance with the other side. To be fair, though, this would work best with increased diplomatic options such as being able to act as a 3rd party in bringing together 2 warring nations for peace talks!!
Anyway, I hope that clears things up for you.

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker

hwinkels · February 17, 2002, 22:36

Quote:

Originally posted by DaXX
....
Units should be able to GoTo boats.... not sure why they can't, if that's an intentional thing or just a drawback to the interface at the present time.... so i have to move the unit to the square next to the boat and then use the cursor and move it onto the boat by hand.

It's probably because boats can move. If you move a unit somewhere that takes 3 turns and the boat moves - then what? Freeze the boat? You might really *need* that boat the next turn for something else.

This one actually makes sense. A land square on the map is still going to be there when the unit finally arrives.

Dutch · February 18, 2002, 08:16

I'd like to see either of the two:

1) Citizens continue working polluted tiles. (Resources could be reduced to 1/2, as in Civ II.)

2) When pollution has been cleaned, citizens return automatically to the tile and continue working it.

As it is now, I experience starvation in cities because I "forget" to put the citizens back out in the fields.

Deathwalker · February 18, 2002, 09:53

The thing I would like to see most is the bility to see air units sink sinks and ships be able to intercept planes.
I thing this would be best done via unit attributes. So you can control what units are destoyable by air power and what units can intercept air units

JFB · February 18, 2002, 10:45

I miss spies! I miss the espionage options!

Here's some ideas, probably not for a patch, but anyway ...

How about this ... a "surrender" condition that can be calculated based on the attacker's strength/HPs vs. the defenders, maybe other factors like military service (what does that category mean or do anyway?). Maybe an attacker can even offer a surrender. "The Persian Cavalry is offering our Pikeman a surrender, should we accept?" or "The Roman Warrior refuses to our demands for surrender."

After the surrender, you would have the unit in your possession (like a POW camp) and have three options: TRADE, INTERROGATE, or BRIBE. Trading would work just like workers, but with more value, and maybe just being able to trade back a unit to it's own nation, not to another nation ...

INTERROGATIONS: You could get maps, city info, military plans, and maybe even technology by interrogating the POWs. The ability to gain information and amount you could gain could be based on your tech level (If you have espionage, for instance), culture rating, and the defending units loyalty (based on culture, military service and/or status, government, etc.)

(after "Interrogate German Horseman" is clicked)
"The German Horseman has given us valuable information about the city of Hamburg" (same as investigate city of Hamburg without the cost)

Also, you could bring BRIBING back after you have captured a unit. I miss that from CIV II. After you have the unit in your possession, you simply click a button that sets some value on the bribe attempt and hope it works, similar to civ II.

Even more fun is maybe a way to have a military campaign to free POWs. Could you imagine taking an enemy city and freeing ten captured, angry cavalry ready to turn around and give a little back to their oppressors?

Hmmm ... another idea is to have a new tech, maybe after military tradition, called COVERT OPS, allowing covert units of any type to be built with no nationality markings (more costly than normal units), but some chance of their nationality being discovered when they attack.

OK, now for cultural ideas. How about the tech FILM, allowing movie theatres to be built, after five are built you can build a great wonder called Hollywood, that takes some amount of culture to your civ from any movie theatre in any civ that is built?

I personally think that the late game needs more culture buildings and options. What about museums or something? This could give people another direction for a win if they want to spend the resources to research and build culturally. More variety of gameplay.

How about some late-game techs such as "Cultural Understanding" that allows your civ to absorb a percentage of a cities' culture when you conquer it? Might lead people to not simply raze every city they conquer. Could also help prevent reversion. Might be a nice element to include to vary gameplay styles. What about a tech that allows foreign nationals in your cities to actually GIVE culture to the city, like immigrants have brought their culture to the USA? Captured workers could have a completely different impact now ...

How about a way to make the borders between a civ more rich culturally? If your borders touch, why not have an improvement that could "bring in" the international culture and make your civ more rich culturally? Call it an international culture center or something. Could be a nice addition and option to strengthen cultural borders and avoid reversions in non-conquest games.

Well, maybe I'm in the wrong thread for these ideas ...

Willem · February 18, 2002, 11:45

Quote:

Originally posted by JFB

Hmmm ... another idea is to have a new tech, maybe after military tradition, called COVERT OPS, allowing covert units of any type to be built with no nationality markings (more costly than normal units), but some chance of their nationality being discovered when they attack.

You can do that now if you want. Just copy a unit, or more, then give them a hidden nationality. And though the AI doesn't declare war when you use them, he knows they're yours and this affects your diplomatic standing. And yes, the AI uses them as well. You have to keep your eye on your workers, especially near another civ's territory.

And you can also build museums, theaters etc. if you want to as well. I agree with you, there should be more of those types of buildings. And no, you're not in the wrong thread for these ideas. That's why I started it in the first place.

JFB · February 18, 2002, 12:11

Thanks Willem. I thought maybe that was more of a MOD topic than a patch, but glad to know we can talk about them here.

I have been wanting to start working on some mod ideas but haven't spent the time to learn and try... yet.

By the way, what do you think on the "surrender" idea?

Willem · February 18, 2002, 12:39

Quote:

Originally posted by JFB
Thanks Willem. I thought maybe that was more of a MOD topic than a patch, but glad to know we can talk about them here.

I have been wanting to start working on some mod ideas but haven't spent the time to learn and try... yet.

By the way, what do you think on the "surrender" idea?

My idea with this thread is for players to point out some minor ways that the game can be changed in order to add more elements to the gameplay in future patches. It's my hope that maybe someone will suggest an idea that gets Firaxis thinking, "Now why didn't we think of that?" Since most of what you mentioned can be done now, it would certainly qualify with my intention.

As for the surrender thing, they had something similar in SMAC involving the Probe team, so it's not really that far-fetched. However, I have to wonder how much valuable info a grunt on the field would really have. Maybe investigate city, that's about all. However, it might add an interesting element if you had to set up a POW camp somewhere to hold those captured units until the war was over. Especially if these POWs revolted from time to time.

davidttm · February 18, 2002, 14:00

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
Try the + and - icons.

They move the slider 10% at a time.

Salve

Thanks. The more I learn about the interface, the more I like it.

Highlander_two · February 18, 2002, 15:19

I've posted this in another thread, but I'll repeat it here in case this becomes the "official" thread for suggestions for the next patch.

OK -- here's my two cents worth:

I've read quite a number of of threads, and one thing comes to my mind. I've seen it before, but I'll say it again: bring back the CIV2 engineer unit and allow limited terraforming. Make this unit available in the early/mid-industral age, make it twice (or more) as expensive as a settler and allow mountains to hills, tundra to plains, jungle to forest and flood plains to grassland conversion. Allow the engineer (as in CIV2) to perform at 1.5 to 2 times the rate of an ordinary worker.

IMHO this would accomplish two things. First, it would allow the player some hope of improving those crappy starting locations, and cities that are built in terrible terrain just to get resources, into something reasonably productive. Sure, it wouldn't be a fix early in the game, but it wouldn't condemn that city to a totally unproductive role for the whole game. Second, it would provide some relief from the late game tedium and crippling pollution that so many posters complain about.

Again imho, this element would model world history since this type of limited terraforming has been available to mankind since the late 19th to early 20th century and would not seriously unbalance game-play if the AI were set up to take advantage of this as well as the player.

Again, just my 2 cents worth.

beyowulf · February 18, 2002, 16:07

What I'd like to see is an end to the 'Loser' End screen where your leader is all beat up. I mean if someone else grabs the Space Race or Diplomatic Victory before I do, I didn't actually lose. My Civ is still thriving civilization.

This screen should be reserved for when you are actually wiped out by another civ.

Arathorn · February 19, 2002, 12:12

I have a bunch of ideas at:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=42762

Arathorn

pauldst · February 19, 2002, 16:56

1)Bring back the ability to send food to other cities, allowing cities in resource rich moutains to grow larger. [Does Denver or Pittsburg grow all of their own food?]

2)What's up with my Frigate attacking a Galleon or a Caravel and losing hand's down? Or even worse, losing to a Galley! Give better units, particularly ships, an advantage over inferior units.

3)Units in enemy territory should be able to get some advantage from roads. Maybe 1/2 instead of 1/3.

4)Give the ability to negotiate borders. You know, I'll give you that grassland square for this hill. The idea would be to more solidify borders. [I admit that this probabbly couldn't be changed by a patch....]

5)RoP agreements that are unit specific, not open to any and all units that want to move through your territory.

6)Borders don't shift so that suddenly your fortress & troops are in someone else's territory. Fortresses should secure your border both against other units and against shifting.

In agreement with others (in Firaxis actually does pay attention to this thread):

7)The ability to make peace between other civs.

8)Make Forests more useful later in the game (mining them sounds good).

9)Pollution doesn't drive workers away.

10)More culture buildings for later in the game.

11)Colonies that are like Supply Crawlers.

12)AI respects boundaries more.

13)"Civil disorder popup before a city goes into disorder, instead of after." (ChrisShaffer)

14)Basing in an ally's cities.

15)Martial Law to suppress rioting and reversion.

Back to me:

16)The possibility of an entire civ surrendering. Take the capital and there is x chance of whole civ surrendering. Factors influencing are size, power, & culture differential between the civs, how many other cities are lost that turn or in last few turns, ability to continue effectively resisting, etc.

Willem, the wandering minstrel is a cool idea....

star mouse · February 19, 2002, 19:18

When you quit the game, you currently get a confirmation dialogue with two options, "Yes" and "No". I would like a third option on this screen, "Save then quit". Saving the game before quitting is a very common task, and it's a bit tedious to save the game first in one place then go to another to quit.

star mouse · February 19, 2002, 19:29

Quote:

Originally posted by pauldst
5)RoP agreements that are unit specific, not open to any and all units that want to move through your territory.

How about a ROP for land and another for the sea?

Quote:

8)Make Forests more useful later in the game (mining them sounds good).

How about a Sawmill terrain improvement that becomes available with Industrialization and provides one additional shield? Railways would boost production of sawmills by an additional shield. Perhaps this is best done by allowing mining in forests at this time.

Quote:

11)Colonies that are like Supply Crawlers.

Anything to make every square in my empire productive. I hate those occasional squares that I can't work because they're not in a city radius.

Willem · February 19, 2002, 19:34

Quote:

Originally posted by star mouse

How about a Sawmill terrain improvement that becomes available with Industrialization and provides one additional shield? Railways would boost production of sawmills by an additional shield. Perhaps this is best done by allowing mining in forests at this time.

All that needs to be done is have the AI workers do their thing in Shift-A mode, instead of A, then add a mining bonus to Forests. I tried it in my mod, and although my workers were mining the forests, the AI's weren't. They were just cutting them down.

Willem · February 19, 2002, 20:14

I'd like to be able to build Wagons and set up trade routes like I could in Colonization. Why is that the last we've ever seen of that feature? I thought it fit in really well in a Civ game. Same with the ships sailing back the Old world, though in this case it would be another Civ's harbour instead. It would certainly put a greater demand for a naval force into the game. There'd be an actual trade route to defend.

PS, Maybe create a new type of resource, a Trade resource, and ones that have some industrial improvements to go with them. Again like in Colonization.

shuttleswo · February 19, 2002, 21:57

Reading some of the suggestions for changes and additions in here I notice that a lot of them were seen in CTP2 and SMAC. I also remember that the biggest complaint (or at least the most common) for those two games was a weak AI.
I think Firaxis probably made a conscious decision to keep a lot of these improvements and game mechanics out of this game because it would be virtually impossible to have an AI effectively use them.
I think clearly if the game had MP or was a MP focused game a lot of these changes make sense, but I wouldn't want a lot of these things (although many of them would be cool) if ultimately all they accomplish is making the AI even easier to beat.

Just for instance, if you added an artist as a cultural specialist a human player probably could effectively use that, along with a long-term strategy to assure a cultural victory in every game. The AI, which can't think that far ahead, probably would not use them as effectively till later in the game.

As for fortresses having ZOC, would the AI workers know enough to build them? Worker AI is better than in smac, but the workers still seem focused on developing resources that an individual city may need, getting them to do that effectively while still doing more strategic things (like strategic roads, or in this case fortresses) might be difficult.
And when asking for something like a supply crawler back, remember this, did you EVER see the AI effectively use those things in SMAC? It was a tool that you as a human user could use with a specific strategy to defeat the AI that the AI could never use against you.
So if you want to add these things I think you have to ask first and foremost if it’s not realistic to expect AI to use them (meaning it adds a significant amount of complexity to the game), does it really make the game any better?
And if you think that it’s not an excuse because they should just make a better AI … Well if they could make an AI that could beat a human on his own terms, (on a PC) they wouldn’t be making games, they would be winning Nobel prizes.

Willem · February 19, 2002, 22:24

Quote:

Originally posted by shuttleswo

As for fortresses having ZOC, would the AI workers know enough to build them? Worker AI is better than in smac, but the workers still seem focused on developing resources that an individual city may need, getting them to do that effectively while still doing more strategic things (like strategic roads, or in this case fortresses) might be difficult.

Building Fortresses was never a problem with earlier AIs, especially in SMAC. They built them everywhere, though not necessarily strategically. But if they were given the old ZoC rules, which even in previous games they didn't have, that wouldn't matter. It wouldn't even matter if they were manned or not. Even a poorly placed fortress would act as a defensive barrier, and hinder a frontal attack by the human. You'd have to position yourself in such a way that you can destroy it before you can advance.

Quote:

And when asking for something like a supply crawler back, remember this, did you EVER see the AI effectively use those things in SMAC? It was a tool that you as a human user could use with a specific strategy to defeat the AI that the AI could never use against you.

But we have seen the AI building colonies, so what's the difference? And if it didn't, being able to use bonus resources that you ordinarily can't is not going to be a game breaker. It will only mean that a city gets an extra square or two of production.

TheRascalKing · February 19, 2002, 23:05

I just REALLY want my zone of control back...zone of control was the ONLY realistic method of "NEVER LEAVE YOUR FLANKS UNSECURED!" that civ had. Realistically, if you marched your soldiers right past enemy troops, you WOULD be destroyed. You would have your flank open to the enemy, and open flanks=you die. The only reason Shaka did so well against the British was because the British didn't have enough troops in the area to keep their flanks secured, and Shaka was the absolute mastermind of outflanking his opponents. Thus, whole battalions of British musketmen were slaughtered by Zulu spearmen. It is IMPERATIVE that all flanks are secured. Zone of control forced player and AI to do so.

Another thing...I HATED Civ2 MGE because the computers always ganged up on the player. I don't think that, just because the human player is doing better than the computers, that the computers should gang up on them. Why should your ally of 1000 years suddenly turn on you just because your histograph line is bigger than his? He shouldn't, he should hide in your shadow and hope that you will carry him to victory. Some of us actually like playing a game of diplomacy, where you honor your allies and make long-standing relationships with other nations. I don't turn on my long-standing computer ally just because he's going to launch his ship to Centauri before I do if I don't kill him, and if the computer started doing that, the game wouldn't be fun for me anymore.

Edit: Oh, and another thing! I wanna be able to set railroads like roads can be set! I don't like infinite movement railroads and would like to set it differently in the editor if I so choose.

pauldst · February 20, 2002, 00:13

Yeah, that's something else that it would be nice to see again: the team victory.

Willem · February 20, 2002, 00:30

Quote:

Originally posted by TheRascalKing

Edit: Oh, and another thing! I wanna be able to set railroads like roads can be set! I don't like infinite movement railroads and would like to set it differently in the editor if I so choose.

Yes, I think infinite movement is rather far fetched as well. Maybe 10 or 20 at the most. I'd also like to see a return of the Supermarket to boost irrigation bonuses, not railroads. What the AI does to it's lovely farmland is it's business, but I only want to have railroads going from city to city, and to my mines. Anything else is just plain ugly. At least I was able to get rid of those hideous mines in the middle of prime farmland. The map looks so much better now.

Encomium · February 20, 2002, 01:24

We can start with MORE UNITS, especially naval and civ-speciifc units.

Bombers CAN sink warships.

More realistic values for strategic resources and Espionage-related stuff.

A better map: iron and coal is too hard to find, and all resources are too hard to see on the map.

Less corruption; less culture flipping. No culture flipping on improvements.

A less stubborn Diplomatic AI which does NOT hold grudges for millennia.

More improvements, techs, and Small Wonders (such as a Hollywood-type wonder).

And about thirty other things. But that's enough for now.