1.17f Bug Reports - Page 3

Willem · February 16, 2002, 21:34

Quote:

Originally posted by star mouse
If you're playing with a mod where Scientists or Taxmen require advances to become available, the Science advisor screen shows these on the appropriate screen. Good.

The bug is that the icons of Scientists and Taxmen that it uses are reversed.

The attached image shows the effect of setting Taxmen to a prerequisite of Currency, and Scientists to a prerequisite of Invention. The icon with the Currency advance is a picture of a wizard, and the icon with Invention is a bald bloke that has to be a tax collector.

I hate to make you look like an idiot, but those are the right graphics. The guy with the pointy hat is actually a Taxman, and the bald guy is a Scientist.

Sarxis · February 16, 2002, 22:28

the previous posts to see if this was already mentioned.

Had a weird bug happen when I built a new city (Russians, Custom Huge, Modded Bic, about 1500bc) where as soon as I founded the city a message popped up congratualting me on building a road to my town allowing it to use Silk.

I had neither a road nor silk near that town. Actually, I had no silk anywhere.

The really yucky thing about the whole thing was that the pop-up appeared before the city window opened, but after the city was visible on the map. The settler unit was still visible on the city's square too.

I have a save for it.

Willem · February 16, 2002, 22:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Anunikoba
the previous posts to see if this was already mentioned.

Had a weird bug happen when I built a new city (Russians, Custom Huge, Modded Bic, about 1500bc) where as soon as I founded the city a message popped up congratualting me on building a road to my town allowing it to use Silk.

I had neither a road nor silk near that town. Actually, I had no silk anywhere.

The really yucky thing about the whole thing was that the pop-up appeared before the city window opened, but after the city was visible on the map. The settler unit was still visible on the city's square too.

I have a save for it.

You should right click on the city and look at the terrain info. It sounds like you built it right on top of a silk resource that may be invisible. If it's there, it will no doubt appear in the terrain box.

Thrawn05 · February 17, 2002, 00:03

I've a got an annoying bug. Everytime text pops up above a city (wether its WLTKD, or pop drop, etc...), the screen goes blank for a half a second. This has not happened before the patch.

I tried starting the game in 1024x768x16-bit, but that not helping, same with 32-bit color. (24 is not an option).

I've also tried starting the game on different map sizes, no luck. And I've uninstalled and reinstalled the game, and installed the 1.17f update directly (I didn't use 1.16f), which has not helped.

Basic system specs:
OS: Windows98SE w/ IE 6
CPU: P3 550MHz
RAM: 256MB 100MHz SDRAM
Video: 16MB Voodoo3 3000 AGP (Driver Version: 4.12.01.0638)
DirectX 8.1 installed, with all hardware compatible.

NOTE: I do have the DX8 SDK installed, but that can't be a problem since I've had that installed since last October (long before I got Civ3.)

samsmithnz · February 17, 2002, 00:26

Well this patch really makes a difference doesn't it!!! I feel like I'm finally playing a finished game, obviously the developers got a kick in the pants for releasing too early!!!

Anyway after playing all weekend, I have a couple of minor bugs to report.

1. I used to upgrade all musketeers (i'm france) to riflemen, and it upgraded all, but the selected one, and it took my money!

2. Sometimes after a city finishes biulding something, the popup's combo box is not centered properly, it seems to go off the right of the screen. Also the drop down list sometimes doesn't have times on it.

3. I went to wartime, and the picture of Joan of Arc changed to a bald army lady and it said at the bottom "War-Time (Chemistry 3 Turns)". Now that I'm not in war anymore shouldn't her face change back again???

4. Borders are still not completely working as shown in this picture.

5. Question for Soren: How does the resources appearing and disapearing work? Sometimes a resource will disaapear and in the same turn the resource will reappear a couple of squares over. Is it completely random, or does it happen at regular intervals (eg every 5 turns?)

I've also now added my saved game showing 3 and 4.

for what its worth, i have a:

Win 2000
800Mhz
256MB Ram
TNT 2

Thats all for now. Played for 3 days and NO crashes Wahoo!!!

Kc7mxo · February 17, 2002, 00:37

Um, not sure what your problem is, but to begin with the voodoo3s do not support 32 bit color. Sometimes they pretend to, but they do not.

notyoueither · February 17, 2002, 02:45

OK. I have a display bug. Started in my last game with 1.16 but I wasn't too fussed. Thought it was a corrupt game. Abandoned that game to start fresh with 1.17.

New patch. New game. Same bug. Same behaviour.

Imagine the diplomacy screen as a clock with 8 hours. The guy at 5 o'clock is missing, in this case the Aztec. In the initial screen there is a blue circle at 5 o'clock. When I select someone the circle disappears. When I put the cursor over the void it turns to a yellow circle. When I double click on the yellow circle, Mao comes up (he's at 7 o'clock).

The exact same thing happened in the previous game (1.16). The guy at 5 o'clock was a void. The yellow dot at 5 o'clock brought up the same guy as at 7 o'clock.

What I have done. Uninstalled 1.17. Uninstalled 1.16. Uninstalled Civ3. Installed Civ3 from original CD. Installed 1.17. Same bug.

Reinstalled DX8. Same bug.

Updated video driver. Same bug.

My system.
Gigabyte 7DX mother board with AMD 761 chipset
Thunderbird C 1200 running at 900 MHz
256M DDR RAM
Matrox G450 32M Dual video card
WinME

It's not a big deal for me. A bit of a handicap. I'll eventually see Aztec units and be able to contact Monte by right clicking on them (hopefully it won't be Mao).

Salve

Kilroy_Alpha · February 17, 2002, 03:43

The patch is good, but it why are they constantly trying to plug every "loophole" in the game? The pop-rush thing was good, but now the AI will not trade techs. Add to that the fact that you can't give cities away (I used to like to give conquered civs back to their original ruler for a nominal fee), and you start to wonder why one should even both engaging in diplomacy in the first place.

*AI doesn't trade resources.
*AI doesn't trade techs.
*AI doesn't trade cities.
*AI doesn't trade maps.
*etc, etc, etc.

Why even bother talking to anyone if this is the default attitude? Also any civ you come into contact usually hates you. Even the docile Indians, I'm afraid, seem to be overly deceitful now.

I can understand trying to plug obvious loopholes in the game, but that should apply to things like demanding 100 gold/turn in exchange for peace when the enemy civ only makes 2 gold/turn. Most other "loopholes" are really just players playing dirty. Make the AI play dirty, and increase the penalties for deceit. The player SHOULD be able to:

*Give away cities for whatever and then attack said cities. Obviously the civ you did that to is done dealing with you after that.
*Make peace, demand some gold, then turn around and immediately redeclare war. Heavy diplomatic penalty of course.
*Grab a few techs/resources from one civ and sell them to another for a profit. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS. If the two civs haven't discovered each other, but you know both, why can't you exploit this? RETARDED.

What's happening is that the number of things you can accomplish through diplomacy is dwindling. By the next patch the best option will probably just be to be as deceitful as you can with every civ and ignore the diplomatic penalty since diplomacy is useless anyway.

HenryMad · February 17, 2002, 04:25

Something strange is happening in my current game.
I could not upgrade my spearmen left to pikemen and then to musketmen in one of my cities, while all the other ones let me to. Note that all these cities have Barracks and share the same strategic resources. It is the first time it happens: did any of you already noticed in the past something like this ?

UPDATE:

This is really driving me mad: by reloading the same savegame, sometimes I could upgrade the same unit (i.e. the spearman) sometimes not. Apparently there is no explanation for this, it's completely random !

RO · February 17, 2002, 04:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis

Do you have the governor set to "Manage Production"?
Do you have the "Always Build Previously Built Unit" pref on?

because either of those will override the pref you mentioned.

Well, unless my memory is completely faulty, I could check both "Ask for construction" and "Always Build Previous" in 1.16 and still get a build prompt. It was useful, as it gave me a good default build and also gave me control. Why can't I do that now?

notyoueither · February 17, 2002, 04:50

So Kilroy, what bug are you reporting?

I agree that Soren is being aggressive. However, I don't think that is unfair.

I agree that the AI treatment of resource trading is a bit silly. *I'll give you Iron and SaltPeter for Gems. What do you mean you want more?!* Actually, the AI attitude toward resource trading has driven me to crush more than 1 civ simply as a matter of honour. Then I get them for free. Good trade.

However, the AI indeed trades tech (like mad as of 1.17). It often trades maps in my experience. It will still accept cities, if you give them as a gift and maybe under other circumstances (dunno, I don't sell cities as a general practice).

What it boils down to is that you are upset that the AI is learning. Ha ha ha. How many gamers have said they would kill for that? Many. Maybe even you.

Now that you have a developer tuning into our conversations, taking note, and making the AI better able to give us a challenge, you are complaining?

I say, more! Bring it on Soren! I'm like a cat, I'll not be herded. Devise your best. I'll have time. You will eventually be done. I'll still learn. Ha, got any scratch marks?

The pop rush exploit? It was an exploit you know. Try building a civ the way the designers intended, not by building cities on graveyards.

The AI won't buy cities? Maybe the AI has *learned* not to be abused. You take your lessons from game to game don't you? So now an AI is. How unfair!

Peace then immediate war? Same stuff. Abuse. The designers are listening. They've been skewered for not listening. But when they listen, now someone else will skewer them? I guess they can't win.

From this side of the fence. Bring it on Firaxis! Make it the best that you can. I'll play it longer.

Salve

Gramphos · February 17, 2002, 04:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Kilroy_Alpha
The patch is good, but it why are they constantly trying to plug every "loophole" in the game? The pop-rush thing was good, but now the AI will not trade techs. Add to that the fact that you can't give cities away (I used to like to give conquered civs back to their original ruler for a nominal fee), and you start to wonder why one should even both engaging in diplomacy in the first place.

Have you started a new game with 1.17f, or there might be errors with the old save load.

Quote:

*AI doesn't trade resources.
*AI doesn't trade techs.
*AI doesn't trade cities.
*AI doesn't trade maps.
*etc, etc, etc.

I've managed to trade all that with the AI (Okay, I demanded it for peace), but it was accepted.

Quote:

Why even bother talking to anyone if this is the default attitude? Also any civ you come into contact usually hates you. Even the docile Indians, I'm afraid, seem to be overly deceitful now.

Not in my game. All new contacts were polite to me

woody · February 17, 2002, 08:41

Quote:

Originally posted by player1

Egyptians CAN build Horsemen (if having tech).

Doh! I meant Iroquois. Anyway, if you can build mounted warrior, you can't build horsemen, so the upgrade path there is a moot point.

player1 · February 17, 2002, 09:21

Quote:

Originally posted by woody

Doh! I meant Iroquois. Anyway, if you can build mounted warrior, you can't build horsemen, so the upgrade path there is a moot point.

Yes, I know for all other upgrade paths.
I only worried about War Chariot in particular.

Nexus VI · February 17, 2002, 10:07

Something really weird happened during my last game.

My automated workers sometimes are shot by my riflemen while trying to enter my cities and they are destroyed.

My riflemen did increase their quality like they where fighting but they didn't loose energy.

I attach my saved game, 'cause I don't know how to reproduce the problem. I believe you have to keep on playing and it will happen again.

Bye

Ribannah · February 17, 2002, 10:30

(1) The Load/Save game window is not wide enough to see the full filenames
Edit: the scroll bar hides the last part of the filename (the date). Going to a subdirectory and coming back sometimes gives a better view with names filling two rows.
(2) The advisor keeps suggesting to build a Spearmen while I can make the better Bowmen at the same cost.
Edit: Now that I finally connected my empire to my only and faraway source of Iron, the advisor suggests ... "Shall we make a Bowman?"

(3) When the Golden Age is about to end, the city map shows no GA effect on the map but the GA effects are erroneously still shown on the city info below the city map and on the Domestic Advisor's city list
(4) There should be a warning by the Domestic Advisor when the Golden Age is about to end, instead of or in addition to the message when it has ended
(5) There should be a warning when a city is about to go into civil disorder and the option of going to the city screen to prevent this from happening
(6) When a city is about to grow in size, the new shields are already applied while income and food aren't. The extra shields shouldn't either IMHO. Btw most of the time the game applies the square with maximum number of shields, but not always
(7) With the new patch, none if the AI tribes is willing to pay gold per turn anymore, not even $1 when they would pay a lump sum of well over $20, and not even for all my possesions ("What may I trade?" "I don't think any such deal is possible")
(8) Scientific tribes don't get to hear anything about entering a new age
Edit: last time the Babylonians did though, maybe this was a 1.16 thing
(9) The name of the Iroquois war chief is Skenandoah ("white man's friend"), not Shenandoah ("daughter of the moon"). Come on! This is like having Washwoman leading the American army

(10) Despite being a Republic, my cities still celebrate "We love the King day"

Willem · February 17, 2002, 12:47

Quote:

Originally posted by samsmithnz

5. Question for Soren: How does the resources appearing and disapearing work? Sometimes a resource will disaapear and in the same turn the resource will reappear a couple of squares over. Is it completely random, or does it happen at regular intervals (eg every 5 turns?)

Well I'm not Soren, but I can answer your question. The resources are placed on the map right from the very first of the game, based on the number that appears in the editor, in the resources area. You can't see them yet, but they are there.

As for the disappearance, every turn, depending on the setting in the editor, each resource has a chance of disappearing. For example, I think that a Iron resource has a 1/800 chance of disappearing every turn. If it does disappear, it will reappear somewhere else on the map, so that there is always the same number of resources available in the game.

NorthSwordsman · February 17, 2002, 12:50

That's rather frustrating at times, but I suppose that is their attempt to portray resources. I have to admit they did a pretty good job with it. Just wish it wouldn't disappear right when I need it.

Willem · February 17, 2002, 13:06

Quote:

Originally posted by NorthSwordsman
That's rather frustrating at times, but I suppose that is their attempt to portray resources. I have to admit they did a pretty good job with it. Just wish it wouldn't disappear right when I need it.

You can adjust the appearance/disappearance ratio in the editor if you wish. You can even set it so that the resource will never disappear, though I think that takes some of the fun out of it.

NorthSwordsman · February 17, 2002, 13:16

Has anyone ever done a study or come up with some realistic numbers on appearances/disappearances of resources? By this I mean as the rate of new-found ones to the rate of used-up resources and translated that to the game rather than some arbitary number assigned by the talking heads at Firaxis? They ain't in touch with the real world, as the pollution rate shows.

NorthSwordsman · February 17, 2002, 13:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

You can adjust the appearance/disappearance ratio in the editor if you wish. You can even set it so that the resource will never disappear, though I think that takes some of the fun out of it.

Thanks, Willem. I don't want to touch that until I know what the REALISTIC rate is... just wish they would do their research before monkeying with numbers.

Appendix · February 17, 2002, 13:25

After patching the game still crasches VERY often (every 2 hours minimum) on my system (se belov for specs). The most common occasions are;

-When capturing a city
-During end turn
-When a city convert to your civ

I also had a few new crashes that didn't occur pre-patch, for example when changing production and other functions while in "city screen"

My specs are
Amd 1.2 Ghz
Asus a7v133c
384 mb memory
HD c,d,e,f (game installed on e: 2 gb partition, defragged with only civ 3 on it)
CD g,h
Win Xp, all updates installes
Geforce 2 mx400 64 mb (detonator 23.11)
SB PCI128

I'm getting VERY annoyed at having purchaseed a game for the equvivalent of 40 USD and not being able to finnish it. So far I've recommended at lest 5 people not to buy this until it is fully patched.

Willem · February 17, 2002, 13:32

Quote:

Originally posted by NorthSwordsman

Thanks, Willem. I don't want to touch that until I know what the REALISTIC rate is... just wish they would do their research before monkeying with numbers.

There is a maximum number for the appearance ratio, it will only go to 300. As the help explains it, 160 means that in a game with 8 civs, this number means that there are 2 resources for each civ in the game. So 300 will be almost 4 per civ.

As for research, that's strictly a game decision. Are you expecting them to do a complete inventory of the resources that exist in the world today? That's a bit unrealistic don't you think? If they went that far, it would have taken years to publish the game. If you don't like it the way it is, you can always change it your own preference. A number of 300 will pretty much guarentee that you'll have at least one nearby.

Jaybe · February 17, 2002, 13:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Imp. Montezuma
...
Wonderful barbaian Army, ICBM, Stelth Bomber, Nuke Subs etc!!!
All units but UUs is available for Barbarians. Terrorists?!
...

Now, barbarians can be independent minor civs, splinter groups from civs torn usunder, maybe even terrorists. But since (as I understand it), they are just individual cities, it is quite unlikely that they will produce really expensive stuff. It's quite unlikely they will produce a bombardment unit.

Let some conquered/razed ground stay dark and see what comes up. If you let it go long enough, something might happen but it could end up just being more warriors. Depends on the barbarian AI -- Warriors, Cavalry, or Modern Armor???

Willem · February 17, 2002, 13:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe

Now, barbarians can be independent minor civs, splinter groups from civs torn usunder, maybe even terrorists. But since (as I understand it), they are just individual cities, it is quite unlikely that they will produce really expensive stuff. It's quite unlikely they will produce a bombardment unit.

Let some conquered/razed ground stay dark and see what comes up. If you let it go long enough, something might happen but it could end up just being more warriors. Depends on the barbarian AI -- Warriors, Cavalry, or Modern Armor???

They don't actually produce anything, it's just a bonus you can get if you enter a hut. And yes, they can create a bombard unit, even an Army. You can't get a more expensive unit than that!

Jaybe · February 17, 2002, 14:07

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
...
Imagine the diplomacy screen as a clock with 8 hours. The guy at 5 o'clock is missing, in this case the Aztec. In the initial screen there is a blue circle at 5 o'clock. When I select someone the circle disappears. When I put the cursor over the void it turns to a yellow circle. When I double click on the yellow circle, Mao comes up (he's at 7 o'clock).

The exact same thing happened in the previous game (1.16). The guy at 5 o'clock was a void. The yellow dot at 5 o'clock brought up the same guy as at 7 o'clock.
...

I had a similar experience. Game with 12 civs. Destroyed the Iriquois when I had only discovered them and the Americans (I'm Aztec). Blank spot with circle appears. Downright inconvenient after I discover all the other civs.

So toggle the 'missing' civ with the Shift-RightClick to bring you a choice of who to put there.

Jaybe · February 17, 2002, 14:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem
They don't actually produce anything, it's just a bonus you can get if you enter a hut. And yes, they can create a bombard unit, even an Army. You can't get a more expensive unit than that!

The subject was bonus huts, not Barbarian camps???

Willem · February 17, 2002, 14:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe

The subject was bonus huts, not Barbarian camps???

That's right. There's some confusion regarding the term Barbarian in the readme.txt. The goody huts are also considered Barbarians in the game, just peaceful ones. The camps are still the same as they were, as far as I know. They just didn't spell that out very clearly, so many people are presuming it means the camps.

beyowulf · February 17, 2002, 16:03

I just installed the 17f patch, and tried out a new game. Everything seems to be going well, but, in the save I included, once I try to end the turn, the game freezes. I am not sure if its due to the patch, but maybe..

Jaybe · February 17, 2002, 16:19

Bomber conducting bombing run:
I heard it, but there was no visual.

This was on a game being continued with 1.17f. The bomber was coming from a carrier.

EDIT: Bombers were seen in bombing runs later, in different and similar areas (must have been the cloud cover).