1.17f Bug Reports - Page 4

m_m_x · February 17, 2002, 16:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Kilroy_Alpha
The patch is good, but it why are they constantly trying to plug every "loophole" in the game? The pop-rush thing was good, but now the AI will not trade techs. Add to that the fact that you can't give cities away (I used to like to give conquered civs back to their original ruler for a nominal fee), and you start to wonder why one should even both engaging in diplomacy in the first place.

i agree with that!
trading with the AI has become very hard,sometimes impossible to do!

notyoueither · February 17, 2002, 18:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe

I had a similar experience. Game with 12 civs. Destroyed the Iriquois when I had only discovered them and the Americans (I'm Aztec). Blank spot with circle appears. Downright inconvenient after I discover all the other civs.

So toggle the 'missing' civ with the Shift-RightClick to bring you a choice of who to put there.

Cool. I am playing with 8 civs on standard map. Didn't occur to me to shift-pick-civ.

It worked. I wonder why it started happening.

Salve

star mouse · February 17, 2002, 19:04

Quote:

Originally posted by samsmithnz
5. Question for Soren: How does the resources appearing and disapearing work? Sometimes a resource will disaapear and in the same turn the resource will reappear a couple of squares over. Is it completely random, or does it happen at regular intervals (eg every 5 turns?)

I once had an Iron resource disappear and then reappear in exactly the same spot....

This source of Iron has been exhausted!
We have discovered a new source of iron!

sachmo71 · February 17, 2002, 19:27

I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed...but, I customized the name of my Civ, and I used the Japanese as the base race. Some of the reports show my race name correctly (Mystarians) but my info screen shows my civ name as Japan. Strange...

Kilroy_Alpha · February 18, 2002, 02:13

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
I agree that the AI treatment of resource trading is a bit silly. *I'll give you Iron and SaltPeter for Gems. What do you mean you want more?!* Actually, the AI attitude toward resource trading has driven me to crush more than 1 civ simply as a matter of honour. Then I get them for free. Good trade.

It seems that if you're a bigger civ you have to give more to get less. I wouldn't have a problem with this, after all as a larger civ you're going to use more of said resource. Unfortunately since one resource is enough for an entire civ how much of the resource you "use" is irrelevant. Thus, how the AI trades resources is stupid.

Quote:

However, the AI indeed trades tech (like mad as of 1.17).

Hello? McFly? Are we playing the same game? I'm talking about trading techs with ME. As in Elizabeth saying, to paraphrase, "No I will not give you Pottery for Iron Working." But yes, the AI does trade techs aggressively, with itself, which I could give ****-all about.

Quote:

It often trades maps in my experience. It will still accept cities, if you give them as a gift and maybe under other circumstances (dunno, I don't sell cities as a general practice).

Great, so the AI will let me give things to it for free? The AI now has a sense of entitlement? Super! I was under the impression that diplomacy required give-and-take. Mutual benefit. Silly things like that.

Quote:

What it boils down to is that you are upset that the AI is learning. Ha ha ha. How many gamers have said they would kill for that? Many. Maybe even you.

Ugh. Yeah that's exactly what I said. My first sentence even. Christ.

I don't mind if the AI learns or whatever, but in my experience it's learning the wrong thing. Like "Neighboring civs with powerful militaries who have always treated you fairly need to be cheated at every juncture and attacked whenever convienent." And I'm sure this appears somewhere in the source for civ3

void techtrade(player1,player2){
if (player1==AI && player2==AI)
tradealltechs(screwed);
else
tellthehumanwheretogo(doublyscrewed);
end
end
}

Quote:

Now that you have a developer tuning into our conversations, taking note, and making the AI better able to give us a challenge, you are complaining?

I apologize, but I'd also like to have a little fun while I'm at. I believe that diplomacy has taken a step back from the already semi-poor state it was in, in 1.16. I'm not alone.

Quote:

I say, more! Bring it on Soren! I'm like a cat, I'll not be herded. Devise your best. I'll have time. You will eventually be done. I'll still learn. Ha, got any scratch marks?

The pop rush exploit? It was an exploit you know. Try building a civ the way the designers intended, not by building cities on graveyards.

I said I agreed with what they did to pop rush, did you read my post?

Quote:

The AI won't buy cities? Maybe the AI has *learned* not to be abused. You take your lessons from game to game don't you? So now an AI is. How unfair!

Yeah. If the AI is taking lessons from game to game then I'm throwing my CD in the trash. Each game should start with a clean slate. My playing styles may vary from game to game and having the AI carry lessons from game to game will QUICKLY limit me to one playing style. All this is moot however since the idea that AI does this is preposterous.

I'm going to quote this again:

Quote:

You take your lessons from game to game don't you? So now an AI is. How unfair!

You make it sound like the game is there just as much for AI's benefit as it is for mine. Are you high?

Quote:

Peace then immediate war? Same stuff. Abuse. The designers are listening. They've been skewered for not listening. But when they listen, now someone else will skewer them? I guess they can't win.

From this side of the fence. Bring it on Firaxis! Make it the best that you can. I'll play it longer.

Salve

There should be a penalty for doing that. I never said there shouldn't.

.
.
.

Aargh, I'm done defending a position that you didn't even take the time to understand before you assaulted me with this drivel. I'll leave you with this:

READ. COMPREHEND. POST.

In that order.

volcanohead · February 18, 2002, 05:57

Played my first full game over the weekend, found the patch useful, especially 'j'. Two problems, the game now crashes every hour or two, but the autosaved game recovers with no problem when I restart. Also my battleship had a phase of only moving 2 tiles at a time. Apart from this, everything OK.

Oh, and I found that I could easily get techs from other civs, for gold, techs etc. I played at Regent level, I don't know if the AI is more of an arse at higher levels.

V

notyoueither · February 18, 2002, 06:09

Hi Kilroy. You're right, I did misread your statement re pop rushing.

I agree with you re AI resource trading.

I have not experienced the same tech trading imbalances that you report. In fact, in the game I'm currently on, I traded 2 techs for 2 techs after first contact with the first AI. Later, I got 3 techs for my maps (when I knew 3 AIs). It also seems to me that the tech for cash values have been reasonable. I am easily keeping up by setting my science to minimum and buying from the AI while my cities crank our settlers and infrastructure. This also has the benefit of giving me lots of cash to upgrade units. Soon my core cities will be well developed and I will kick in the science rate to take the lead. Want to borrow my CD?

As for the sale of city issue. Soren is being aggressive here. It has been very commonly reported how easy it was to beat the AI like a rented mule by being a totally underhanded b*stard. He is closing loop holes down. It sux that the honourable player is being stifled in this, but I believe it is for the good of having a more capable AI. It could be done better, and maybe he is considering how it could be done better. Maybe he's working on how to allow city selling until you screw an AI civ, then none. I hope so.

As for the game to game learning, I appreciate that the developers are adjusting the game to prevent the most obvious exploits. In the end they will more likely end up with a product that will stand the *Test of Time*, if you'll forgive the pun. How many times do you want to play a game where you can beat it badly and easily and always?

BTW, yes I'm high. 6'3" in fact. Does that mean something?

Salve

Hurricane · February 18, 2002, 06:53

Some bugs:

1) My fonts were screwed (similar to madwand97´s problem on page 2). I fixed it by uninstalling some fonts, so that I had less than 800, including uninstalling the Lucida Sans font.

2) Not sure if this is new for v1.17f, but in my current game (started a new one with v1.17f) I went to revolution. My cash flow was -44 (to other civs), and my treasury only 10. Even though I stayed in anarchy for 5 rounds, I never lost any money! The advisor always told me "You are running low on cash" (can´t remember the exact phrase), but nothing happened. No buildings were sold or anything like that. I also checked on some of the AI civs if maybe my payments were just frozen, but the round timer just kept counting down (i.e I still had to pay the French 10 gold/turn for 15 turns when I went into revolution, but only 10 rounds when I finally could switch).

Alex · February 18, 2002, 08:11

Well, no problems here with 1.17f. The new stack command is really useful and the AI seems to be more agressive than ever! I like it.

I don't have any problems with the resource trading. The AI civs are just trying to get a lucrative (for them) deal. I don't see a problem with it. But it has not been so hard to get a good deal. In my last game, the Babylonians even contacted me offering their furs in exchange for my spices. That never happened to me prior to 1.17f (usually I had to take the initiative).

Oh, and no crashes at all, even though I played for more than 4 hours straight. The only thing that almost crashed was my head -- my wife was not very happy with such extended Civ session!

Libertarian · February 18, 2002, 08:20

[...incredulous stare...]

Thank you for reporting that. Since the many bugs reported here have had no effect on you, we can all just disappear now.

Spec · February 18, 2002, 10:41

Quote:

Originally posted by The Eliminator
They're not going to release multiplayer on a patch, moron.

What do you think the're going to do??? Make you buy the game again?? Of course the're going to make a patch MORON!! What do you think they did for Civ2?

Spec.

Spec · February 18, 2002, 10:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Libertarian
Thank you for reporting that. Since the many bugs reported here have had no effect on you, we can all just disappear now.

Please do!!!

[...waiting impatiently....]

Libertarian · February 18, 2002, 10:56

I can understand your impatience, Spectator, what with patience being a virtue.

volcanohead · February 18, 2002, 11:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Spectator

What do you think the're going to do??? Make you buy the game again?? Of course the're going to make a patch MORON!! What do you think they did for Civ2?

Spec.

IIRC Spectator the multiplayer version of Civ2 was sold as a separate product, not as a patch update to the original. In any case, it seems unlikely that Infogrames would pass up the opportunity to make a bit more cash by releasing a gold version of Civ3 with all bells and whistles, including multiplayer. Unlikely, not to say undesirable.

On another note, I believe Lib's comment was based on the fact that the post contained no reports of bugs, yet this is a thread entitled bug reports. If everyone who didn't find a bug posted here it wouldn't be much use would it? And now I've fallne into the trap too...

V

Rust · February 18, 2002, 12:48

Are expansionist civs supposed to get a huge lead in the beginning now with the new goody huts. I found 5 settlers at least, and did they used to be called experienced settlers or should we be getting warriors cause i never found one military unit just lots of settlers and a few techs.

Spec · February 18, 2002, 12:52

What you dont understand is that I'll take every chance I get to make fun of Lib...He does the same to me...Ain't it fun!?

Sorry, correction. By patch I ment expansion-pack(always cheaper than the full game and doesn't work without the original CD)...Like Broodwar for Starcraft and where I live, we call them patches. Force of habbit.

And Lib, I know your going to take a shot at me in someway...I'm waiting...make it a good one this time....

Libertarian · February 18, 2002, 13:15

Quote:

And Lib, I know your going to take a shot at me in someway.

No, my not. Honest.

Spec · February 18, 2002, 13:36

What's gotten in to you Lib.?!?! Tell me you're still ok!! Dont tell me you like Civ3 all of a sudden!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Spec.

Alex · February 18, 2002, 13:44

Quote:

Thank you for reporting that. Since the many bugs reported here have had no effect on you, we can all just disappear now.

Oh, come on, Lib... Someone was talking about how trading with the AI has become harder with the new patch, and I just wanted to comment. Unless you consider this "new" behaviour as a bug.

Anyway, I thoroughly apologize with you for posting such stupid comments on this most brilliant thread, master.

Libertarian · February 18, 2002, 13:47

Well, then. See that you keep your wits about you in the future.

JohnE · February 18, 2002, 14:40

I have experienced a weird bug while trying to move units.

Sometimes, when I'm done moving a unit, it doesn't get unselected automatically. The white circle stays around the unit, looking the way it does when a unit has no movement. The panel in the lower left corner says that the unit has no movement, but the little circle that reminds me that the turn needs to be ended doesn't flash. Sometimes this happens with the last unit that needs to be moved, other times with a different unit. So sometimes I have to end the turn, and sometimes I have to manually activate some other unit to get my turn going again. Sometimes, it happens more than once in a turn. What the heck is going on?

Blaupanzer · February 18, 2002, 14:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Spectator
Sorry, correction. By patch I ment expansion-pack (always cheaper than the full game and doesn't work without the original CD) ... Like Broodwar for Starcraft and where I live, we call them patches. Force of habit.

Civ II MGE, the MP version of Civ II, was released as a whole new game. Not an expansion pack, not a patch. The latest (last?) version of Civ II (v. 2.42) is not compatible with any MGE version. Effectively, two separate games with the same rules, etc. Spectator, you should know better than to start rumors that upset the newbies.

Alex · February 18, 2002, 15:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Libertarian
Well, then. See that you keep your wits about you in the future.

Absolutely, sire!!

Spec · February 18, 2002, 15:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Blaupanzer

Civ II MGE, the MP version of Civ II, was released as a whole new game. Not an expansion pack, not a patch. The latest (last?) version of Civ II (v. 2.42) is not compatible with any MGE version. Effectively, two separate games with the same rules, etc. Spectator, you should know better than to start rumors that upset the newbies.

It's called Morpheus my friend, not rumors. I dled the expansion for Civ2, as the file name said, from Morpheus and installed it, thus my reason for thinking it was an expansion pack.
Blaupanzy, you should know better than making unfounded comments, and you should also dl Morpheus and see all the wonderful stuff that is available to you right away and not in stores. Sorry about that one Firaxis

but dont worry, I bought the original Civ3...cause the dled one didn't work....

Spec.

korn469 · February 18, 2002, 15:44

pikemen are disabled for greece in the units file

so does that mean we get 1.18f sooner?

just joking guys

HenryMad · February 18, 2002, 16:24

It's not so simple

1 - I'm playing as Babylonians
2 - By reloading the same savegame, sometimes (more often) the upgrade is possible, sometimes not
3 - I don't perform any other action: I just reload, select the city, select the spearman. Sometimes the upgrade button is available, sometimes not

sachmo71 · February 18, 2002, 16:50

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnE
I have experienced a weird bug while trying to move units.

Sometimes, when I'm done moving a unit, it doesn't get unselected automatically. The white circle stays around the unit, looking the way it does when a unit has no movement. The panel in the lower left corner says that the unit has no movement, but the little circle that reminds me that the turn needs to be ended doesn't flash. Sometimes this happens with the last unit that needs to be moved, other times with a different unit. So sometimes I have to end the turn, and sometimes I have to manually activate some other unit to get my turn going again. Sometimes, it happens more than once in a turn. What the heck is going on?

I have seen this one, but it has happened since the first release. I usually just save and restart the game with no problems. I have a lower end machine, and others who have also had this problem seemed to have lower end machines also. Could be a problem with memory allocation...not sure.

Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS · February 18, 2002, 17:04

Quote:

Originally posted by korn469
pikemen are disabled for greece in the units file

so does that mean we get 1.18f sooner?

just joking guys

Actually I thought that was a bug too. But since the hoplite has the same stats, without the resource requirement and is 10 shields cheaper, it's as designed.

Jeff

woody · February 18, 2002, 17:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS
Actually I thought that was a bug too. But since the hoplite has the same stats, without the resource requirement and is 10 shields cheaper, it's as designed.
Jeff

Does the hoplite get the same defense bonus against mounted units as the pikeman does?

BTW, what is the defense bonus that the pikeman gets? The civilopedia just says it gets a bonus, but not how much.

ACooper · February 18, 2002, 17:35

The pikeman does not get a bonus against mounted units. The Civilpedia is in error.