1.17f Bug Reports - Page 7

Grumbold · February 21, 2002, 12:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Lucian
Actually, there *is* a bug here. In 1.16f, you could have both 'Ask for build orders after unit construction' *and* 'Automatically build same unit type' selected, and you would get the pop-up menu with the same unit type selected as the default, which you could then change.

In 1.17f, if you have those two options checked, it doesn't ever ask you about the city, and just keeps churning out the same unit type.

Still better than the original, but I miss the loss of functionality.

-Lucian

seconded. Having the advisor pop up suggesting repeating mech inf was much better than having them suggest spearmen and imo better than them not prompting at all.

Willem · February 21, 2002, 12:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Libertarian

Why so nice? You're a Civ3 supporter; you may hurl curses at me if you wish.

What on earth are you talking about? That was in no way directed at you, and I have no desire to hurl curses at anyone. Now perhaps there's a flaw in my character, but I don't like having people bully their opinions onto some else. People should not be forcing their ideas down someone else's throat. When they do, I tend to get angry. So please excuse me for being unable to accept intolerance.

Libertarian · February 21, 2002, 12:26

Willem · February 21, 2002, 12:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Libertarian
My response, Willem, was to the person I quoted, namely Woody. It was Woody who said, "So long, and don't let the door hit you on the way out." Maybe you need some rest.

Sorry, my bad. I used that same line with someone as well so I assumed that was a quote by me. Just ignore me, I'm harmless.

Barry Caudill · February 21, 2002, 12:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

Jeff, please don't run away. Could you please clarify this fix regarding government buildings? Does this mean that gov specific buildings only work with the gov selected or is it something else entirely? The readme isn't exactly clear on what the fix does.

That is exactly what it means. The building will not even show up in your city if you are in the wrong government. Hope that helps.

Speedy

Willem · February 21, 2002, 12:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Speed Bump

That is exactly what it means. The building will not even show up in your city if you are in the wrong government. Hope that helps.

Speedy

Ah yes, that helps a lot. Makes for a few more possibilities. Sorry, but I have a couple of other questions. Would I still be able to use a gov obsolete building as a requirement for another structure in the new government form, assuming that I had the first one built already? Or would the game disregard the existance of it in that case as well?

geoffbland · February 21, 2002, 12:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

But why did you make the Egypt War Chariot upgrade to horsemen now? This made a quite good UU nearly useless. In the few turns between The Wheel and Horseback Riding I seldom managed to build more than 4-5 War Chariots post patch. I can't believe that this is intended too... is it?

I've just played Egyptains and you don't have to research Horseback Riding - it's a deadend and you can build War Chariots until Knights are available.

Barry Caudill · February 21, 2002, 12:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

Or would the game disregard the existance of it in that case as well?

When you are in the wrong government type for a building, it is like that building does not exist. So, no, you would not be able to build anything with the "non-existant" building as a prerequisite.

Speedy

ometiklan · February 21, 2002, 13:01

I know that the prop planes and jet fighters can do air superiority missions now like they were supposed to (I have had the prop planes shoot down stealth bombers!), but I have not seen them do it off of aircraft carriers. When I check on the fighters on carriers, they are all asleep. Is is just me or does this make aircraft carriers fairly usless? Yeah, you can use them as bombing platforms, but you cannot protect a naval fleet from air attack. Anyone else think this is a remaining bug?

Kevin Ar18 · February 21, 2002, 13:08

( 1 - annoyance/suggestion ) There is still no way to properly handle >8 civs
Well, lets admit it, people are going to be playing Civilization III with more than 8 civilizations. And when it comes time to make scenarios this is gonna be especially true. In addition, someone has found a way to add more than 16 civs. This can become a big problem for people playing the game.
Update the Foreign minister screen to show the relationship of 8 & 16 civs (thus you will have two formats - one for a game with 8 or less civs and one for a game with 16 or less civs)
Also, allow the user to change and rearange what civs show up in Foreign Minister screen at any time during a game.
( 2 - annoyance/suggestion ) There is no way to keep track of trade agreements.
Currently in Civ3 there is no way to keep track of a trade agreement and know when it will end. A simple, "this trade will end in x turns" pop-up message is NOT enough to keep track of it like a person needs to. So I suggest adding the following things to make things easier:
In the Trade Advisor screen, beside each imported item include a number indicating the number of turns left till the agreement will end. This will satisfy the need for adequate information to a strategy gamer.
I suggest putting the number of turns in black. However, as the turns get closer to 0 turns left, the text to could change color (possibly yellow and then red so it stands out?). This will allow a person to scan over the information faster and only look for what is nearing an end.
A pop-up that the agreement will end next turn. This will help the person too busy with their empire to keep track of everything.

( 3 - suggestion ) Well, first off I haven't really had any problems with pop-ups in Civ III. However, there is some potential for problems.
1. If you have a slow computer poping up messages takes longer and slows things down.
2. For future scenarios pop-ups could be a big problem. This was a pretty bad problem in some Civ2 scenarios where you couldn't even start the scenario before going through many, many pop-ups.
3. For people who would like to spend the long time it takes for each turn away from their computer, the many pop-ups can be a problem.

My idea has 3 parts.

1. Wonders & War Declaration
Instead of poping up separate messages for each little thing like wonders and war declarations, a single (scrollable) window should pop-up with all the messages on it at the end of the AI's turn. It would include all wonder and diplomatic declaration messages and any other similar pop-ups.

2. City Completion and Build Orders
At the start of your turn, instead of poping up a separate message for each city, include all the city messages in one pop-up message which you can look over and change only the ones you need to.
Each city should still have the zoom to city option so you can look at a city and return back to that window when you are done with the city.
An option to center the window on the specified city may be helpful too.
Perhaps this whole idea should be an option since it could be a little harder to play the game this way.

These two suggestions would result in only 2 pop-ups during the AI's turn, except for when the AI contacts you for diplomacy.
I would suspect with a little work, both of these ideas could be implemented without major changes to CivIII. Simply keep all the message in memory till the end of the AI's turn and then show them in a single pop-up.

The following suggestion is just as an option.

3. Save all message till end of turn.
This is an option to save all messages till the end of the AI's turn. This would be for those times you want to go away from your computer while the AI takes it's turn. By doing this, the AI can finish it's turn and when you come back you can then read all the messages instead of having to sit there and click on 'em one by one.
I'm not sure this would be possible to do with the diplomatic agreements the AI starts, so this idea may just have to be ignored. However, if it can be done, then the AI would just wait till the end and then send any messages to you about diplomacy. Also, to help the player, there should be another window to pop-up at the end with information on any wars or battles between your units so that you won't miss anything while you were gone from the computer.

Willem · February 21, 2002, 13:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Speed Bump

When you are in the wrong government type for a building, it is like that building does not exist. So, no, you would not be able to build anything with the "non-existant" building as a prerequisite.

Speedy

OK, thanks for the info.

ACooper · February 21, 2002, 13:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Libertarian

Actually, I have no recent posts. This is my first post since Ming jacked me up for daring to question how Ironik got away with his famous vulgarity.

At any rate, I'm hanging out at the EU2 site now. There, my very first thread was answered by the lead programmer. I've just bought the game, and it is en route to me. I visit here from time to time out of a morbid curiosity.

I'm glad you're happy, Coop. Of all my adversaries, I respect you the most.

Please don't think I'm happy. There are many things with this game that deserved to be fixed. Most of the points you have mentioned are still very valid and need to be fixed.

Please stop by from time to time to see how it's going around here. You never know what will happen next, do ya?

geoffbland · February 21, 2002, 13:55

War Elephant, the UU for the Indians has no advantage over the Knight. It's still 4/3/2 same as the Knight. Manual says they should be 4/4/2.

Willem · February 21, 2002, 14:41

Quote:

Originally posted by geoffbland
War Elephant, the UU for the Indians has no advantage over the Knight. It's still 4/3/2 same as the Knight. Manual says they should be 4/4/2.

Jeff explained once that the War Elephant requires no resources, whereas the Knight needs Iron. That's the advantage. And don't believe everything the manual says, there have been a few changes since that was published, and there were mistakes right from the beginning. If you want accurate numbers, look in the editor.

davidttm · February 21, 2002, 14:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeffrey Morris FIRAXIS

Sounds like you were playing a civ with religious civilization strength. They switch on the following turn.

Jeff

I'm playing the Egyptians (Religious). I start the revolution on the Domestic Advisor screen. She says the Anarchy will only last for EIGHT turns!?
(Anarchy lasted from 1040 AD to 1120 AD)

Chieftain level, with patch 1.17f
Save included at 1040 AD. Start revolution and see what happens.

P.S. Sorry, I missed something obvious (again). I was playing with Civ Specific abilities OFF. I thought that just turned off the UU's. D'OH!

CharlesUFarley · February 21, 2002, 15:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Libertarian

Why so nice? You're a Civ3 supporter; you may hurl curses at me if you wish.

Don't pay attention to him, he's still trying to figure out what his purpose on earth is.

Charles.

Kevin Ar18 · February 21, 2002, 16:49

(1 - anti-intuitive/suggestion) The F7 and F11 screens should be available somewhere in the advisors or on the toolbar or menu. The reason is not laziness, but that it is anti-intuitive not to have these features findable in the game. People who have never read about these hidden features are are not gonna ever find them. It is the basics of designing an intuitive interface to have all features visible in game in some way (and not in a hidden command that you must find elsewhere).
(2 - Editor features) Allow us to specify if the same wonder or palace can be built multiple times. Also, allow us to specify the range of everything from city improvement to wonders

*. Instead of making palaces and wonders automatically default to where you can only build one, introduce an option that says "allow only one" so we can toggle whether you can build one or not)
Make wonders and small wonder options available to regular city improvements!!!
*. After you have allowed all wonder options to apply to improvements, indroduce an an option where you can specify their range:
Apply to city

Apply to any cities within a __ tile radius (you can then specify the radius)

Apply to continent

Apply to world

The first two would not be considered a wonder of the world.
However, the last two would be considered wonders that would show up in the much needed screen that lists where wonders are located.

(3 - Editor features) More control over the details of city improvements[list=1][*] Instead of reduces pollution, include an option that lets us specifiy how much it reduces pollution (0 - 100%)[*] Include an option where you can only build 1 of these improvements per so many cities you have, and allow us to specify the number of cities.[*] Instead of "decreases missile attacks by 75% option, allow us to specify the percentage.[*] Instead of "+1 ship movement" make is so we can specify the amount of increase and in accordance with one of the suggestions above, make it available to all things including improvements[*] Instead of "+1 trade" allow us to specify the amount[*] Instead of "reduces war weariness" allow us to specify just how much it reduces it.[/list=1]
(4 - Scenario features) We need a macro language again!!! This really gives the scenarios character and allows us to get over some of the limitations of the editor.

Willem · February 21, 2002, 17:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Ar18
(1 - annoyance/suggestion) I would like a way to tell where each of the wonders are located.

Have you tried F7?

Alxander · February 21, 2002, 17:22

After disbanding a captured city by pop rushing a worker/setller, and then resettling a new city (with the same settler or one built from your civ) in or near the same spot as the civ you conquered your people are still crying about -the cruel opression you brought down on them, is this a bug? I find it really annoying that I disband a city to get rid of the unhappy people, only to find that when I resettle in the same spot on good land the people complain as if they were conquered?? Can someone explain to me if theres a logical reason for it or not?

Kevin Ar18 · February 21, 2002, 17:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

Have you tried F7?

Good deal, is there any way to get to the Wonders and demographics without hitting F7 or F11. If not then my request would be.
1. Include a link to these screens somewhere in the advisors or on the toolbar or menu.

Willem · February 21, 2002, 17:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Ar18

Good deal, is there any way to get to the Wonders and demographics without hitting F7 or F11. If not then my request would be.
1. Include a link to these screens somewhere in the advisors or on the toolbar or menu.

Man, you are so lazy!

Kevin Ar18 · February 21, 2002, 17:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

Man, you are so lazy!

Actually it has nothing to do with that. It is the basics of designing an intuitive interface. People who never read about all these hidden shortcuts are not gonna ever find these features. It is thus anti-intuitive not to have this available or at least findable in the game.
I changed my post to reflect what I mean.
I tell you what, if you will give what I said some consideration, and consider if this would help someone who does not read their manual very well. Then if it really is not needed, then I think it would be fair to edit my post and remove the idea. -- I hope we can discuss it as friends -- I do want to make things better in Civ3 and would rather not start any arguments.

jbrians · February 21, 2002, 18:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Libertarian

Actually, I have no recent posts. This is my first post since Ming jacked me up for daring to question how Ironik got away with his famous vulgarity.

At any rate, I'm hanging out at the EU2 site now. There, my very first thread was answered by the lead programmer. I've just bought the game, and it is en route to me. I visit here from time to time out of a morbid curiosity.

I'm glad you're happy, Coop. Of all my adversaries, I respect you the most.

The truth comes out! The devs pay personal attention to me with this game, so I'm going over there!
-Brian

Willem · February 21, 2002, 18:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Ar18

Actually it has nothing to do with that. It is the basics of designing an intuitive interface. People who never read about all these hidden shortcuts are not gonna ever find these features. It is thus anti-intuitive not to have this available or at least findable in the game.
I changed my post to reflect what I mean.
I tell you what, if you will give what I said some consideration, and consider if this would help someone who does not read their manual very well. Then if it really is not needed, then I think it would be fair to edit my post and remove the idea. -- I hope we can discuss it as friends -- I do want to make things better in Civ3 and would rather not start any arguments.

Hey relax, I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I just feel it's a very minor issue. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers. Geez.

star mouse · February 21, 2002, 19:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Ar18
Good deal, is there any way to get to the Wonders and demographics without hitting F7 or F11. If not then my request would be.
1. Include a link to these screens somewhere in the advisors or on the toolbar or menu.

I feel the best place for a link to the Wonders screen would be the cultural advisor, and the Demographics screen would be the domestic advisor.

star mouse · February 21, 2002, 19:20

Bug: When the AI captures your workers, they are still always killed by the AI.

Bug: Units in armies can be removed from the army with "j". (Already reported by others)

Bug: Shift-U to upgrade all units does not upgrade every unit in all cities when all cities are connected to the trade network. There's always exactly one city that doesn't get upgraded. I have to go to that city and upgrade the units manually. It happened even when my whole empire was a railway wasteland and I upgraded my infantry to Mech Inf. (My Empire is one contiguous land-based empire: I can reach every city without crossing water or crossing another civ's land.)

Feature request: Add a Resource mode to the minimap in the game and editor. This mode would show the location of all known deposits of a specific resource on the minimap. The biggest tedium with the game at present is finding resources that you lack, especially on a Huge map.

Feature request: The Trade advisor should show the civs who lack a specific resource that you possess in addition to those who have resources for trade.

Feature request: Add a "Save and then quit" option to the "Oh no" Quit screen.

Gameplay change: Swordsmen and Longbowmen should upgrade to Marines.

Libertarian · February 21, 2002, 19:21

Willem · February 21, 2002, 19:52

Quote:

Originally posted by star mouse
Bug: When the AI captures your workers, they are still always killed by the AI.

That isn't a bug. If the AI feels it can't get the workers out of the area safely, it will disband the worker rather than giving you the opportunity of recapturing it.

Quote:

Gameplay change: Swordsmen and Longbowmen should upgrade to Marines.

You can do that in the editor if you wish.