Most annoying civs to play against...

Windwalker · February 17, 2002, 03:26

For me, it's those bloody Zulus... I'm playing a regent/continents/standard game, with 6 civs on my continent. English were at the top, I was below, Greece was below me, and Zulus and Romans at the bottom (Iriquois were to the left, at about the level of Greece, on a peninsula). Well, I took some early offensive action against England and took/razed about 4 cities, then sued for peace. I met the others, they were all fine for a while, until out of nowhere, Iriquois attack, and then the Zulus declare war. The iriquois sent about a dozen units to their deaths, and then sued for peace (though they were 2 HP away from taking one of my cities). The Zulus, on the other hand, showed up later, after having trekked thru the entire length of the Greek nation (stupid rite of passage...), and sent wave after endless wave of units (probably 30 total), razing 1 city before I finally got them to the bargaining table. It cost me 20 gold, but oh well, it was getting old. Then, exactly 22 turns later, I notice a stack of 10 zulu units as well as some stragglers making their way into my territory. "Please get out." Of course they declare war AGAIN! This time, they have swordsmen and archers and impi, and I wasn't prepared (I was building up, thinking I was safe). Wave after wave and I ended up losing three cities, 2 of which I took back when I got chivalry--> samurai about 10 turns into the invasion. Even after I took back the cities, wave after wave of zulus kept coming, and then my iron ran out --> no more samurai. ARGH. Right now, I am managing to hold down the fort with the 5-6 samurai I have right now, but those dang zulus won't give up! And they have to pass through an entire nation to reach me! What is their problem? Don't they have closer nations to make war with?...

This really wouldn't be bothering me if I was their neighbor, as I would have a chance to strike back. But as it stands now, if I trespass onto Greece property, I'd end up with 2 blood enemies instead of 1... And a rite of passage with the greeks would cost me chivalry, and I have no doubt I would soon be seeing knights in my territory should I agree...

I hate the Zulus... Interesting game, though...

- Windwalker

Bautou · February 17, 2002, 04:50

Bah, if you're having that much trouble with the Zulu, give the Greeks whatever they want in order to declare war on the Zulu. They'll probably refrain from attacking you, their ally, for the duration of the agreement. During which time, you should be to get yourself back on your feet and cut off the Zulu from attacking you directly.

Worthingtons · February 17, 2002, 12:16

Yep, the approach i would take too. So many games I've had someone miles away declare war on me, so I simply get an empire in between to declare war on them and let them fight the war.

In my last game, the Superpower (how did I let another nation get this status anyway!) Japan declared war on me, I was quite worried, and really thought this might bring my game to an end, but when they had the Germans and English to fight too it suddenly became a lot rosy for them

This is one of the things I like about Civ III, if you're not the leading nation you can make it back by ganging up on the leader.

Worthingtons · February 17, 2002, 12:17

Oh, and to answer your questions, I hate the bloody americans, because Lincoln has to be the most annoying leader on the game, and despite going on about peace all the time, he still seems to declare war on me in my games!!

DaXX · February 17, 2002, 12:36

it seems to me when you select random it almost always throws in the zulu as one of the civs.... perhaps they need to update the random number generator routines.........

Thrawn05 · February 18, 2002, 09:49

I find russia and england to the most annoying, since they always delcare war on me as soon as I contact either on of them.

Kc7mxo · February 18, 2002, 15:05

The chinese are my nemesis, their bloody riders drive me nuts with their great mobility. And that stupid computer always knows if there's a worker in range too. . . . .

bogatir · February 18, 2002, 17:21

The Zulu get my vote as the most persistently suicidal bunch. In my current game, I decided to bat them about a bit because their empire was getting a bit too big – and I wanted to secure an additional source of iron. I took a well-situated coastal city from them, and then packed it full of musketguys, cavalry and cannon (I always get cavalry before I take on the Zulus…).

The Zulu hurled stack after stack after stack of units at that city for ten straight turns. I stopped counting after I killed 60 units. Impi, archers, swordsmen, horsemen, warriors – whatever they had laying around just ganged up and charged in. Meanwhile, I loaded more cavalry and cannons on galleons and proceeded to raze a half-dozen Zulu cities on the other side of the continent, taking about 20 workers in the process while wrecking the Zulu road network and plunging them into civil unrest chaos everywhere.

And the Zulu just kept coming until, I think, they were down to nothing more than a 2-unit per city garrison.

After making peace, researching, building, blah, blah, blah, years later in the same game they’re at it again, hurling wave after wave of knights at my tanks and mechanized infantry.

Definitely a single-minded civ.

Ironwood · February 18, 2002, 17:40

The Germans. They are untrustworthy as allies in the midgame, and instant death in the early game, if you don't prepare to defend the instant you find them. Twice now, I have started adjacent to them, in such a position that it was nearly impossible to cut them off from expansion, ended up overextending myself in the early expansion game, and had them sneak attack me well before early expansion was over. They are the *only* ones I have seen declare war before the early expansion phase was over.

JohnE · February 18, 2002, 18:12

Quote:

[SIZE=1]They are the *only* ones I have seen declare war before the early expansion phase was over.

Then you haven't seen me play. I have declared war when I had three warriors and one city.

The civilization that annoys me the most has to be those stinking English. I HATE talking to Elizabeth!

Thrawn05 · February 18, 2002, 18:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Ironwood
The Germans. They are untrustworthy as allies in the midgame, and instant death in the early game, if you don't prepare to defend the instant you find them. Twice now, I have started adjacent to them, in such a position that it was nearly impossible to cut them off from expansion, ended up overextending myself in the early expansion game, and had them sneak attack me well before early expansion was over. They are the *only* ones I have seen declare war before the early expansion phase was over.

I thought like you, but I relieze, if you can't beat 'em join them. The germans are the only civ that I suck up to. I give 'em free tech every so often and stuff. All that sucking pays off in the industrial age, with their panzers! I sign a MPP with them and goto war with someone I hate. In the end, their panzers help level a rival civ to nothing. I course being nice, after the war that I dragged them in, I give them a 1000 gold or so in the end. If I do this, they are usualy graicious towards me all the time.

Harovan · February 18, 2002, 20:14

I have no problems with Germans in 50% of my game (guess why?), but... take a look at our French succession game in the Stories thread. The Germans are our only long-termed and trustworthy allies. All other civs pissed us, the Germans are very helpful.

Dom Pedro II · February 18, 2002, 20:23

It's a tough call for me. Annoying in terms of aggression goes to the Zulu no question. I find them to be quite useless most of the time, and in almost every game, I will go to war with the Zulu at least once. Twice I wiped them from the face of the earth.

I hear a lot of guff about Germany, but they have personally never bugged me to much simple because I never started anywhere near them. That is until this last game in which I was in the midst of a very strenuous conquest of the Chinese empire, and they attacked me from the exact opposite end of my empire despite the fact that their attitude towards me was "Gracious". Now, I hate them... particularly since they were indirectly involved in the ruining of my laptop as a result of that invasion....

All in all, France annoys me the most. I have only gone to war with them twice and both times it was just an unnecessary end-game blow out just for the shear sake of going to war. But they bug me because no matter what, they're one of the best civs. I've never played a game where the French were weak and/or wiped out towards the beginning of the game. I just find them haughty and indignant (sort of like in real life!

)

England also bothers me, but that's just because Elizabeth isn't as hot as she should be. If you're going to have a female ruler, she should at least be cute... Lizzie just looks like Skeletor. If no cute woman, put in a man... Henry VIII would have been good enough. Or maybe George III.

Well, thats about all of my major peeves in this game.

Harovan · February 18, 2002, 20:38

Most annoying for me in general are China, Persia, England and Russia. The former two in my "ancient" games (me as Egypt or Babylon), the latter two in my "modern" games (me as Germany).

I simply can't laugh about Mao's "funny funny jokes", and I won't forget Xerxes' "gracious" face, when he once visited me with about 30 immortals.

Liz is coded to be an untrustworthy and backstabbing wench. Fortunately, England is in most games weak. I have yet to see England as mighty empire. Cathy is a bit more reliable, but can also not been trusted. With Joan I seldom have problems, she's mostly my ally till I get panzers. At this time she must go, because I don't wish to see her bald head in the modern age

.

zlandar · February 18, 2002, 21:48

Germany and Russia are the most annoying. They are loud, obnoxious, and will demand tribute constantly and stab you in the back anyway if they smell fear. England is up there, but they usually won't make a move unless they're hopping on top of the pile when the AI is already chain-ganging up on you.

Dom Pedro II · February 19, 2002, 15:11

Yes, I did forget to mention the Chinese. I never had trouble with them until recently, but they're quite annoying in the early years. They build up an army of about 300 warriors and then just send them all in at the same time! They are weak, but they don't have to be strong to wreak havoc on terrain improvements... Even if you have a few dozen of the latest units, they can't handle all of that before it come back around to bite you.

And Catherine is ugly like Lizzie, but Liz iz more duplicitous by far...

Blaupanzer · February 19, 2002, 16:50

Frankly, it's the Germans and the Aztecs in the first two periods because they are so wildly aggressive. Later, it's the English, who won't keep treaties and will settle on any open square on the map. The Zulus are generally backward scientifically and their best unit is really defensive, not very useful past the expansion stage. The most condescending, besides the English, are the Greeks, who still address me as a backward, junior state even when I own half the map and they have only four cities. Best neighbors, in my experience to date are the Irroquois and the Persians, as both keep their word. Of course, I always suck up to them in the early game because of their very dangerous UUs.

Arrian · February 19, 2002, 17:34

It's the Germans and English for me.

The Germans are led by a guy I call the mean, nasty, demanding Bismarck man, because that's exactly what he is. Especially if you have the misfortune of starting next to him. I HATE seeing dark blue in ancient times. As the Croc Hunter would say, "Dangah, Dangah, Dangah!" Cut 'em off, and kill 'em at first opportunity, I say.

The English are more annoying than dangerous. Elizabeth wins the "most frequent nonsensical backstabbing" award. Thankfully, the English are usually weak in my games (normal size maps, which don't go very well with the English traits).

The Zulu are somewhat annoying as well, but because I'm often in their cultural grouping (Babylonians), they're not all that hard to keep happy until I'm ready to deal with them at gunpoint. I am more likely to cave in and give Shaka what he demands early on, because Impi are a real pain until Knights, and even then I don't like 'em. If I can, I avoid dealing with the Zulu until I have Cavalry.

-Arrian

Ironikinit · February 19, 2002, 19:03

Germany is the only civ that has wiped me off the map before I even had a chance to build spearmen. Clever of them.

Zulus haven't been much of a problem. That's mostly because I don't discover them until late in the game. They always seem to end up on another continent.

Persia can be very bossy in the early game, but if I get past that they seem OK.

The best defense against Germany is to be Germany.

I couldn't believe it when France backstabbed me. I don't know if it was because of the patch or just coincidence. It didn't just hurt my civ, it hurt my heart. And then I took half her cities. She's stayed in line since.

star mouse · February 19, 2002, 21:23

For me, it's definitely the Russians.

In four different games I have had run-ins with them. The first game, they anoyed me simply by being too close to me and taking MY resources, so I wiped them out before the end of the Ancient era.

Bad move. This only made them angry.

In the next three games with the Russians as an opponent, they seemed hell-bent on making lots of trouble. In two of the games, they were huge brown empires by the time I found them and they gave me a lot of trouble. In the third game, they were neighbours, and they decalred war when I refused their demand for 21 gold. I took or razed four cities including Moscow by the time they would talk to me. They declared war again sometime later, so i wiped them out.

Shaka II · February 19, 2002, 21:42

Well, it all depends so much on a particular game and particular Civ chosen by human player, but here are some general experiences:

I think the Germans present the biggest problem, although they have been good allies in several games (better to make him an ally then an enemy). He is a real early threat with Swordsman and of course later with Panzers.

The French are generally quite advanced and usually friendly. I have allied with them frequently. Recent game, I was Aztec and had to remove them (nearest neighbors) in the early game to expand, as well as the Indians, who attacked me after I got rid of the French.

Catherine is pretty fair most of the time. She is usually a bit weak, but not always. I like it when she says "Russia knows how to deal with bullies".

The Aztec can be a real challenge, especially if they on your continent.

I do not have any warm feelings for the English. Most recent game, I was Iroquois, and was a bit over extended in wiping out the English (a bit behind the technology curve, 4,000 year war, etc.), when Elizabeth managed to convince the Germans to ally against me, and the German MPP partners were drawn in as well. The AI gangs up on the weaker player and in that game, I think I was it.

My favorite Civ is Babylonian, but I have played about half of them and like the different stategies, etc.

I have not really had a problem with the Zulu, but I know what they can be like. I guess their CIV II war like nature endures.

Flight · February 19, 2002, 23:22

id agree with everyone above, the germans and zulus are the hardest to deal with early on, and require some serious bashing to stay in line (or some serious asskissing).

I dont like the english at all because elizibeth is ALWAYS polite and will either declare war or trade for everything very nicely, you cant really tell sometimes.

I dont mind any of the other civs, although the egyptians attacked me on teh firaxis world map (they had all of euro-asia, i had africa) right at the end of the game while i had 1 last spaceship component to go. I tac nuked a stack of about 70 units but then still kept coming. Then the german panzers from overseas finished off my southern cities and wasted my chance of victory that was a couple of turns away

dnassman · February 20, 2002, 00:17

If I start next to the Babs and let them get to their bowman quickily then I know that in every case they go for an attack that can actually take some of my cities.They can be very annoying. Also the Germans, as most other people have suggested, can be a real nasty civ to have against you if you are at the same stage of development. I mostly play the Persians so I don't have to deal with their Immortals.

bogatir · February 20, 2002, 13:34

While the Zulus may be insanely suicidal at times, at least you can usually judge what their intentions are. They seldom declare war on me when their attitude is ‘polite’, and it takes a while for their attitude to descend from ‘polite’ to ‘annoyed’.

On the other hand, the Germans are a bonus pain in the butt. By putting up with their occasional tech demands in my current game (and submitting to that aggravating "you’re a good boot-licker" comment), I managed to keep them polite through the Ancient age while my Aztecs knocked out my nearest neighbor, the Americans. But in the Middle age, two turns after one of those ‘polite’ boot-licker interchanges with the Germans, they showed back up with an ‘annoyed’ attitude, demanding my latest tech (chivalry). I gave them the finger and they declared war. After I razed two of their cities with my brand-new knights, they paid me off for a peace treaty, but I’m sure they’ll be back.

The Zulus in this game, however, are still playing nice with me at the ‘cautious’ level (I guess they’re a little leery of the city-razing Aztecs right now…). At least I managed to round up the last of Abe Lincoln’s little tribe and grind their bones to make my bread.

German civs always seem to need an ‘attitude adjustment’ when I play the Aztecs. I figure it’s basically a programmed negative reaction to another ‘militaristic’ civ having some success (even though I was still ‘boot licking’). I noticed that their attitude went sour very quickly (from ‘polite’ to ‘annoyed’) as soon as I started producing technologically superior military units (knights).

Blaupanzer · February 20, 2002, 15:18

If you look in the editor, the Germans have the highest aggressive level available (5 out of 5). So their demands and quick reaction to negative turns in the game is at least predictable. I'm not sure what drives the English to their duplicity. (At least in game terms I'm not sure; this fits my personal prejudice in regard to their history as an empire -- a treachorous ally and an amoral attitude to their supporters and opponents.) All of the military civs have a high aggression level. Additionally, it appears that all of the AIs are clearly programmed to attack any significantly less powerful neighbors. So, sneak attacks should not be quite as surprising as they sometimes are.

Arrian · February 21, 2002, 13:14

Blaupanzer,

About militaristic civs having high agressiveness ratings... I think China is an exception. I think they are (or at least were originally) a 1. I have played many games with the Chinese as one of the AI's, and I have to say I have grown to sigh in relief when I find out that the light blue border on my map is Chinese, not American (Abe's a warmongering jerk). Mao seems much more willing to trade with me, and I don't recall EVER being sneak attacked by them.

-Arrian

Blaupanzer · February 21, 2002, 13:48

We can look up the numbers, so it may be less than 4 for China. (Don't have game with me here.) However, I have been playing Japan in recent games, and China attacks fairly regularly, even though I leave the other civs alone during the expansion phase. You are right about Abe. His troops invariably follow me home once my warrior on exploration makes contact, and attack when they get there, whatever the power ratios.

You are right that light blue borders (the Chinese default color) have generally been a relief to see in exploration in the ancient era. However, in my most recent game that color turned out to be the Americans. Here we go again.

Windwalker · February 22, 2002, 15:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
We can look up the numbers, so it may be less than 4 for China. (Don't have game with me here.) However, I have been playing Japan in recent games, and China attacks fairly regularly, even though I leave the other civs alone during the expansion phase. You are right about Abe. His troops invariably follow me home once my warrior on exploration makes contact, and attack when they get there, whatever the power ratios.

You are right that light blue borders (the Chinese default color) have generally been a relief to see in exploration in the ancient era. However, in my most recent game that color turned out to be the Americans. Here we go again.

Hehe yep... It seems as if all of the new world civs are pretty aggressive... Light blue is not really much of a relief for me, light pink is, though! France is the best friend you can have in the game, or at least that's what I've found in my games... I often go out of my way to attack someone other than france to expand, even if france is my closest neighbor. Il y a un accord entre nous

- Windwalker

kmill25 · February 25, 2002, 17:33

The Germans. I can't stand Bismark. He is a warmongering fool! He always causes international incidents. One time had the nerve to declare war on me after I reduced him to one city, that was surrounded by my nation.

Foolish.

belchingjester · February 27, 2002, 16:09

Quote:

Originally posted by kmill25
The Germans. I can't stand Bismark. He is a warmongering fool! He always causes international incidents. One time had the nerve to declare war on me after I reduced him to one city, that was surrounded by my nation.

Foolish.

You've got to love when you accede to his demands for 17 gold (just b/c you don't feel like dealing with him attacking), and THEN he declares war. When I've played the Babylonians, however, he was attacking Bowmen with Archers. He lost. Triggered an early GA, but he was soon no more
-belchingjester