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Old February 18, 2002, 23:55   #1
roadcage
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Pollution
I have searched the strategy thread titles for pollution and amazingly found none. So humbly I leap into the breach.

The Civ3 pollution model is quite different from Civ2.


In Civ2, pollution = f2(shields, pop, tech)
In Civ3, pollution = f3(facilities, pop, tech)

Civ3 facilities include factory, ironworks, coal power, nuke power, mfg plant
(but not hydro or solar)

In Civ2, if your city started polluting a lot, you could move the workers around so as to produce less shields and thus lower pollution. This does not appear possible in Civ3. I guess you could sell a factory, but.....

In Civ2, city downsizing (settler production) would lower both shields and pop terms of the pollution model. In Civ3, downsizing (settler or worker production) has no impact on facilities, and only impacts the pop term if over the pop threshold. The threshold appears to be size 12 during the industrial age.

OTOH, cleanup appears easier in Civ3. I mean you do have a ton of captured workers, don't you? If not you have simply not been agressive in your warfare! I bet the AI's even like you! I beeline in industrial age to replaceable parts to speed up worker rates. This means that pollution starts after my emergency skeleton railoroad system is in place, and I still have skads of slave workers engaged with completion of bulk infrastructure. Thus, pollution cleanup simply diverts some of the slaves from otherwise useful infrastructure tasks. What ever you do, be sure to stack your slaves as high as required to finish most improvements in one turn. This is to ensure a goodly supply available next turn. (Just in case several tiles get polluted.) The obvious exception is clearing jungle. I start jungle clearing squares in pairs with each tile getting 2x the simple road task. This occupies the workers for 6 turns (1 to move in, 4 to clear, and another move for half the workers to road. The other half join up on one of the tiles to mine or railroad as desired). This is a tradeoff between lost worker turns for the move in and duration of commitment. Now if the jungle square already has a road, you can move in enough to finnish in one go just like other squares.

Needless to say, automated workers are a joke! You simply must be prepared to micromanage this!

Global warming is also different. In Civ2 the onset was usually delayed, but once started, the results were rapid and catistrophic. In Civ3 global warming starts much earlier but does not accelerate as rapidly. I have not yet experienced runaway global warming in any game of Civ3, but this may be due to suffering so badly a time or two in Civ1 and Civ2. (My approach to pollution abatement is tempered by those experiences.)

Conclusions: Civ3 produces more pollution in early industrial age, and about all that is doable is deferring factories (facilities) and hospitals (pop). Cleanup is easier provided you have the captured workers to exploit.

Anybody have pollution/global warming experiences they want to share?

roadcage
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Old February 19, 2002, 07:20   #2
Skanky Burns
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I tried a few games where I didnt build factories or hospitals until I had discovered recycling and built mass-transit and recycling centers in all my cities. That strategy isn't viable as you have much less money due to lower population, much less production due to no factories, and still get some pollution anyway.

My strategy is to basically ignore pollution, build whatever you need in cities (factories, airports, etc) and clean pollution up as it happens. After I have built all my railways and every tile is improved, I set all my workers to pollution duty (shift-A), so they either sit in my city or are cleaning pollution. One less thing to worry about.

I research ecology and recycling fairly soon upon entering the modern age, and start building the buildings after all production-enhancing ones are complete. Once these buildings are in place, you will not have much pollution problems at all. Each city will be producing only 2 tons of pollution, IIRC giving you a 2% chance of pollution appearing on a tile outside your city.

You will get a few tiles converted by global warming, but these things happen. The only real defence against this is building forests which are destroyed by global warming rather than downgrading the tile underneath (ie: grassland -> plains). Unless you are in trunda, however, it would not be cost-effective to put forests everywhere.
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Last edited by Skanky Burns; February 19, 2002 at 07:28.
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Old February 19, 2002, 11:54   #3
Willem
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I didn't realize that Forests worked that way with global warming. Do they also play a role in helping to reduce pollution in the first place? If not, they should.
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Old February 19, 2002, 12:36   #4
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I don't think forests have any effect on global warming, but Skanky's right about forests preventing damage to underlying terrain if global warming strikes that tile. The problem is, however, that you can't predict which tile will be impacted by global warming, and forests aren't too valueable post-railroad.

Personally, I beeline for industrialization and build factories asap. I usually pick up sanitation from the Theory of Evolution (having deliberately bypassed it), and I will, with some reluctance, begin building hospitals then. In the Modern Age, ecology and recycling are high on my priority list (computers first, though).

Now that Firaxis fixed the pollution cleaning automation bug (no more than 2 workers per tile when using "shift+p" has supposedly been fixed... I haven't had a chance to play with the patch yet), I'm a much happier civver.

-Arrian
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Old February 19, 2002, 12:40   #5
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I've seen warming turn jungle to grassland once. Gotta admit that one was kinda nice.
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Old February 19, 2002, 12:47   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arrian

Now that Firaxis fixed the pollution cleaning automation bug (no more than 2 workers per tile when using "shift+p" has supposedly been fixed... I haven't had a chance to play with the patch yet), I'm a much happier civver.

-Arrian
Not only that, but Shift-A workers will sleep in a city when there's nothing to do, but wake in order to clean pollution. So you don't really need to use Shift-P anymore.
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Old February 19, 2002, 13:28   #7
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Re: Pollution
Quote:
Originally posted by roadcage
Needless to say, automated workers are a joke! You simply must be prepared to micromanage this!


I don't what you've done, but my automated workers clean pollution up int one turn... even the slaves.

Are you still in despotism or somthing?
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Old February 21, 2002, 13:17   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
Now that Firaxis fixed the pollution cleaning automation bug (no more than 2 workers per tile when using "shift+p" has supposedly been fixed...
That's not good! Now I know why I have to manually clean up those pollutions. I always have a lot of workers in all my game (at least 120 workers) and I wish I could automatically clean up all pollution in one turn as before the patch.

Now, I have to manual do it. I'm really tired of manually moving those workers.
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Old February 21, 2002, 13:30   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonsinger

That's not good! Now I know why I have to manually clean up those pollutions. I always have a lot of workers in all my game (at least 120 workers) and I wish I could automatically clean up all pollution in one turn as before the patch.

Now, I have to manual do it. I'm really tired of manually moving those workers.
What are you talking about? All you have to do is put them on Shift-A and they will automatically clean up pollution, then go to sleep in the nearest city when it's done. So if you have 2 or 3 workers in each city, you shouldn't have to worry about it.
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Old February 21, 2002, 13:58   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Willem
What are you talking about? All you have to do is put them on Shift-A and they will automatically clean up pollution, then go to sleep in the nearest city when it's done. So if you have 2 or 3 workers in each city, you shouldn't have to worry about it.
I didn't know about the Shift+A. I have always used Shift+P. I will try it out tonight. Thanks
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Old February 21, 2002, 14:47   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonsinger

I didn't know about the Shift+A. I have always used Shift+P. I will try it out tonight. Thanks
That was changed in 1.17f. Shift-P isn't really needed anymore really, unless you want them to specialize.
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Old February 21, 2002, 14:56   #12
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Well, Shift + P is still useful.

Shift + A is nice and all, but only after every single square in your borders is railroaded and mined or irrigated. Yes, your workers will prioritize pollution cleanup, but they will also scramble about building all that stuff on squares you will never use. And here's the really annoying part: if you have a city that is seperated from your main empire by an AI civ, your workers will make like the AI's - they will ignore the border, and charge across so they can improve your outpost city.

I had to click on all of my workers as they violated the Iroquois border repeatedly. Eventually, I de-automated them all so as to avoid that. Hiawatha demanded that they leave every time, and I didn't want to fight him yet. Later on, this wasn't an issue, as I owned the entire continent.

-Arrian
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Old February 21, 2002, 15:02   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
Well, Shift + P is still useful.

Shift + A is nice and all, but only after every single square in your borders is railroaded and mined or irrigated. Yes, your workers will prioritize pollution cleanup, but they will also scramble about building all that stuff on squares you will never use. And here's the really annoying part: if you have a city that is seperated from your main empire by an AI civ, your workers will make like the AI's - they will ignore the border, and charge across so they can improve your outpost city.

I had to click on all of my workers as they violated the Iroquois border repeatedly. Eventually, I de-automated them all so as to avoid that. Hiawatha demanded that they leave every time, and I didn't want to fight him yet. Later on, this wasn't an issue, as I owned the entire continent.

-Arrian
Then try this one:

ctrl+shift+'i' = Improve Nearest City Without Altering Improvements.

That should keep them within the city you select.
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Old February 21, 2002, 15:29   #14
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Willem,

Thanks for that one, I had forgotten about it, but I would prefer it if shift+A did exactly what it does now, with a prohibition on crossing borders w/o a RoP.

-Arrian
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Old February 21, 2002, 17:01   #15
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It seems to me that the Ctrl+Shift I would be much more efficient. With Shift A, they have a tendency to wander as you noted. This way they would always be close at hand if pollution breaks out, rather than having to travel half way across the empire to reach it. So it would get cleaned up much quicker that way.
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