Radar

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

Radar should be impamented in civ3. iT would add alot of realism, and fun to the game. for example, if your opponent launched a nuke, and if you have radar, you should be able to be warned like 2 turns before it hit, so you could have a chance to evac your cities. although radar could not be exact, or it would make it too easy. Heres another example, say they launched a nuke at you, your radar would tell you that they did, but it would not give the exact location, just an area guess, like say within 5-10 squares. You could build radar sites, like you would fortresses. and certain naval ships could use it. there would be 3 levels of radar, the first would be simple, the next, advanced radar, then future radar (i think), the first, simple radar would be used on naval ships, it would give you radar from the ship out 3-5 tiles. the next, advanced radar would be in radar sites, they could reach 6-10 squares out. then the last would be future radar, it would be in your cities, it could go out 12-16 tiles. also, some new units I have suggested in the past could use simple radar, like for example, the Recon Vehicle, that I suggested in my list of units a while back could use simple radar.

[Deity Dude]

didn't i just post a suggestion for radar in which you replied that the topic had been thoroughly discussed. NOW I AM REALLY CONFUSED.

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

NO, you did not, or I would not have said that, and I would not have posted this topic again.

[Deity Dude]

OK now that i vented here's a few thoughts I had on Radar. I like the idea of different levels - I think there should be different levels for alot of units but that another discussion.

EARLY RADAR - the first radar was devloped by the English during WWII. It allowed them to know in advance and locate enemy aircraft during the Battle of Britain. Many historians feel that if the English had not developed radar they would have lost the Battle of Britain and thus the war. My suggestion would be that early radar would allow you to scramble fighters to protect against Bombers AND Fighters. In addition Bomber/Fighter and Fighter/Fighter exchanges should, in general, be won by the fighter that is scrambled on defense. It should be stationed within a city or remote location and only fighters in that city or in the remote location square should be able to utilize it.

INTERMEDIATE RADAR - should try and simulate where we are at now. Thus it should be unit based and not only warn of attacks but also of location of other units. Someone would have to work out which units could possess it, which units could be picked up and what distances it would "see" at. Obviously, for example, Stealth units would not be able to be picked up. Having said that I would think that radar would fundamentally be an air and naval thing on both the detection and being detected end. i.e. I dont think a howitzer should have radar or be picked up by radar. Standard recon techniques would be used for that. Having said that some tanks might possess limited radar but other than that I wouldn't give it to the majority of ground units.

FUTURE RADAR - I think that would be more of an SDI approach - combining detection and defense within the unit or city.

I don't agree with the concept of radar giving a warning for nukes because that doesn't represent reality. A nuke takes about 30 minutes to get here from Russia not months or years as giving a one or two turn notice would simulate. It should detect and provide, in some cases, an automatic radar triggered response

[Deity Dude]

Diablo, I don't want to seem like an @#$%hole here, but, if you check my post dated 12-12 titled "Just a thought" I suggested radar and a couple other topics and you responded saying that it had been thoroughly discussed

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

You are wrong about radar not detecting nukes being realality. In the seventys the USA accedentally (actually it was an accedental fake) launched one Nuclear Missile at Moscow. The Russians picked it up on there radar scopes before it got one mile in the air. And they also had about 2 hours before it would deminish Moscow. The Russians had 2 choices, launch all there missiles back, which, if that happened, none of us would be here. or, wait, and take a chance that it was a frod missile. They desided to wait, and it was a fake. Im just saying that modern radar can pick up nukes. And also, in civ3, I think the turns should be re ajusted, so that it is much more realistic.

p.s. I looked up on that topic, and Im sorry I forgot that. Also, you said in that thread you wanted to hear others ideas on that stuff, well now you have.
[This message has been edited by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto (edited December 14, 2000).]

[Rollo Tomasi]

Would it really take two years from a nuclear launch to hitting it's target?

[Deity Dude]

I didn't say they shouldn't detect them. I said they shouldn't give a 2 turn notice. Nukes are already no where near as strong in this game as they are in real life. In real life you nuke a city - ITS DESTROYED - look at Hiroshima or Nagasaki and those were nothing compared to todays weapons. The fallout is tremendous and would be regional, if not global, in nature, not a few pollution squares that need to be cleaned up. In addition, YOU DON"T GET ANY SORT OF WARNING THAT GIVES TIME TO PREPARE, let alone months to evacuate a city. In real life, until SDI is developed your choice is launch or hope its an accident, i.e detection. Maybe we should be able to set nukes to autolaunch at predetermined targets upon radar detection. Once SDI is developed then you have the second mode i talked about in my post, detection with an automatic defense. I don't know how in this game you would simulate your real life scenario, i.e. the accident or mistake, and would suggest that it not be considered. True MAD (mutually assured destruction) relies on the principle of a predetermined offensive response without time to consider or negotiate. That what makes it so scary. The other problem with nukes in this game is the cost is way to minimal. They should have a high cost and a maintenance cost so that everyone isn't able to build a bunch of them and blackmail the world indefinitely.

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

I agree that nukes dont cost enough. And I also agree that nukes should do, well, lets say, enough damage.
iF you look at one of the recent (dont remember wich one), I said that nukes arent at all realistic in civ2 has they ought to be. I said that if nuclear war did happen in real life, it wouldnt last very long, cause within about 24 hours of the first nuclear launch, half the world (and Im not exadurating) would be smithered in fallout and nuclear winter. THose people that survived the actual blasts would not survive the world wide fallout and nuke-winter. I hate the concept of civ2, where no matter how large, or how small a city is, a nuke only takes out half the pop (not to mention none of the buildings!)
I guess you do have a point in you should not have a 2 turn warning. I do like the idea of enough warning that you could deside to either launch back, before they destroy you, or take a chance in thinking its a fake.
I like the idea of having pre-launched locations, missile silos, etc. Not just being able to move around your missiles, but they should have a given target. You should also be able to have a nuclear-plan, where you can pre-plan a nuclear strike, for example, you could auto set your nukes to automatically fire back at a certain city of the enemy that already launched at you.

p.s. I dont want to turn that experience that I mentioned into a scenario.
[This message has been edited by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto (edited December 14, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto (edited December 14, 2000).]

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

*Bump*

[Grumbold]

What are we bumping?

Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) should certainly allow for instant retaliation if fired upon with nuclear weapons. I'm sure this is discussed elsewhere and generally agreed.

Other uses of Radar? After the invention of Radar any Fighter units should be able to be given a patrol order which will allow them to intercept incoming enemy aircraft in the opponents turn. The more advanced aircraft would be able to do so at extended range.

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

Grumbald, when you *Bump* something, you 'bumping' it back to the top o' the list, so people can see it.