Units

Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto · December 13, 2000, 16:50

heres my list of units I want in civ3:

1. US navy SEAL-(only USA can build) this unit could be paradroped in the water, and swim in, and out to shore 2 squares, any farther, and it has a 50% chance of drowning. he can also do amphibious assaults.

2. Air Transport-this unit would be just what it says, an air transport, it could load, and transport up to 6 ground units. this unit would also be a paratrooper/navy SEAL carrier. it would drop the paratroopers and navy SEALS, instead of an unrealistic way of paratrooping in civ2.

3. more specific units for different civs, like the US navy SEAL would be for US only, a new unit, british commando, would be the elite english infantry, etc.

4. British Commando- (English only) this unit would be like the US Navy SEAL, except for the british only.

5. Siberian Special Forces- (russians only) this unit would be again like the navy SEAL, except for only the Russians, and also, it would have a special defence, and movement when on snow/ice.

6. Satelite- this unit could be launched from a city, and travel around the earth. it would stay up in space for only a certain amount of time though.

7. Poison Gas- this weapon/unit would be a chemical warfare unit, much like the Nuclear Missile, except it would only destroy the population.

Well, thats all I can think of right now. since I know that "leader" units will be for sure in civ3, I wont mention those. Whats everyone elses ideas?

airdrik · December 14, 2000, 15:17

Why don't you just stick all those US navy SEALs and British commandos, etc. in one SOF (Special Opps Forces) unit, rather than having 10 units which all do the same thing, just different names.

Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto · December 14, 2000, 15:52

Because its more realistic, it would be the same unit, but different picture and different name, much more realistic. Heres some more units Ive come up with:

1. Sniper-Snipers have been very important military stuff in the last couple decades. I suggest this unit.

2. Coastal Battery Gun-This would be like a Howitzer unit, except it would be placed on the coast, and could not move around, it would be specified in naval defense. It would be able to shoot at ships 2 tiles out to sea. And it would have 2X defense against any naval bombardment.

3. Recon Vehicle-This would be a tracked vehicle, specified in Radar, and scouting areas.

4. V-2 Rocket-This would be a pre-missile to the Cruise Missile, pretty much does the same thing, just not as much damage.

5. Sub-Atomic Shock Wave-This would be more of a Biological Weapon then an actual unit. It would have a huge radius, maybe 10 squares.

Deity Dude · December 14, 2000, 18:33

I like air transport - I'd just make sure what it transports is realistic (i.e. we shouldn't be air transporting tanks.
I agree with airdrik and would combine the units into a SOF. Otherwise certain civs will have distinct advantages or you'll have to come up with a SOF for every civ (what would the Egytpian one be, or the Roman one)
Satelite would be cool - but you didn't say what its purpose would be (recon/offensive/communications)
I like poison gas and biological weapons but they would have to be thought out very well. I guess "the Gas Mask" could also be a defensive unit.
Sniper concept is interesting but what would it do. In reality snipers take out individuals - units in civ represent divisions. I can't see a sniper taking out an infantry unit or a tank for example.

Coaastal gun sounds good - its too easy in civ now to attack from the sea unthreatened by the shore
V2 is interesting i just doubt people would build a unit that had only one shot and was inaccurate. Besides if the timeline were accurate you would have cruise missles within a few turns of a V2. Maybe this should be part of the workshop feature
One unit I would do away with, or at least rename if you want to keep its capabilities, would be the Alpine Troop. I can't believe people on skis would be too effective in the desert, jungle, plains or forest.

Ribannah · December 14, 2000, 18:53

quote:

Originally posted by Deity Dude on 12-14-2000 05:33 PMOne unit I would do away with, or at least rename if you want to keep its capabilities, would be the Alpine Troop. I can't believe people on skis would be too effective in the desert, jungle, plains or forest.

Not to mention that the only time such troops were used effectively in the real world, was in Finland, far away from the Alps ...

Units I would like to see are:

- Canoe [The Canoe] (rivers & coastal, 1/1, move=2, hold=1)
- Ship-of-the-Line [Colonialism] (6/4/2/1, move=3)
- Militia [Nationalism] (cheap, but no movement, 2/4/2/1)
- Balloon [Theory of Gravity] (0/1/2/1, move=2, "heli")
- Airship [Ecology] (6/1/1/2, move=4, hold=1, "heli")
- Sappers [Logistics] (4/2/2/1, all terrain as road, can destroy walls and occupied fortresses)
- Hovercraft [Combined Arms] (2/2/2/2, move=8, hold=2, units held are amphibious)

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire
[This message has been edited by Ribannah (edited December 14, 2000).]

Deity Dude · December 14, 2000, 19:05

I'd like to make a suggeston. When posting an idea for a potential unit, tell us how you envision it being used.
I have no idea what a Ship-of-the-line is or a sapper for that matter and am not sure how you would use a hovercraft.

Ribannah · December 14, 2000, 19:41

quote:

Originally posted by Deity Dude on 12-14-2000 06:05 PM
I'd like to make a suggeston. When posting an idea for a potential unit, tell us how you envision it being used.
I have no idea what a Ship-of-the-line is or a sapper for that matter and am not sure how you would use a hovercraft.

Lazy, huh?

A Ship-of-the-Line is a larger but slower version of the Frigate. A Sapper is a military engineer.

Edited my post above to accomodate you

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

airdrik · December 15, 2000, 15:56

Idea for the unit workshop: specify which terrains (up to 3?) an alpine unit gets the movement bonus on.
For the non-unit workshop: alpine units get the bonus of 2 movement points on all terrains (workshop alpine units get 3 points on their specialty terrains, and 1 on all others)

Tical_2000 · December 15, 2000, 17:30

quote:

Originally posted by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto on 12-14-2000 02:52 PM

1. Sniper-Snipers have been very important military stuff in the last couple decades. I suggest this unit.

There have never been a regiment of snipers. When talking units, it is generally accepted that you are dealing with a large number of those units, not just a single rifleman or marine! Snipers are simply normal troops that are positioned in a place where it is hard to identify them so they can easily pick off enemy targets with little chance to being spotted. A unit of snipers wouldn't make sense.

Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto · December 15, 2000, 18:48

Tical, I have comfermed info that there WILL be individual units. And another thing, snipers are not ordanary soldiers. If you have ever used a 'sniper' rifle, it takes more then a M-16. THey are elite 1 out of 1000 soldiers, usually marines.

And with the movement of the SSF (siberian special forces), it would be 1/3 on glacier and tundra tiles. the rest of the tiles would give them normal movement of 1.

DarkCloud · December 15, 2000, 20:22

quote:

Tical, I have comfermed info that there WILL be individual units. And another thing, snipers are not ordanary soldiers. If you have ever used a 'sniper' rifle, it takes more then a M-16. THey are elite 1 out of 1000 soldiers, usually marines.

Then why do we need a 'unit', for in Civ a unit is not 1 man it is 100-1000.

Tical_2000 · December 15, 2000, 20:38

Exactly my point DarkCloud. And if you say these snipers would only be used for assassinations of the alledged leader units, are we expected to built a sniper and send him wandering about the earth in search of a leader to kill? BTW, I know snipers are fitted with special equipment. I'm not stupid. I'm just saying that they are deployed in all the standard units (riflement, marines, etc).

DarkCloud · December 15, 2000, 20:49

If you just make that a diplomats option it should work.

young newbie forever · December 15, 2000, 21:08

hi im new to the posts but ive got a (what i think to be) good idea. Instead of one unit representing 100 you could have like a platoon of real smal units represent them. For example, a group of like 5-10 musketeers represent the old musketeer single unit and as they lost troops (like 6 out of the ten) that would represent theyre health. Also the less guys you have shooting the less powerfull they are. That would also make the sniper unit useful.

just a suggestion

Biddles · December 15, 2000, 22:04

I agree with Darkcloud, make the sniper a diplomats option. There's always some intelligence types who travel with diplomatic immunity.

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- Biddles

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Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto · December 16, 2000, 01:13

Deity Dude, you mentioned about the Sniper unit, Ill tell you what it would do. We have comfermed information from Firaxis that there will be 'leader' units in civ3. I only suggested the 'sniper' because maybe they could be used to take out a leader. say, it would have a option (like a spy) to 'snipe' a leader. it would have a 60% chance of hitting him, and a 60% chance of returning home. veteran snipers would have
a 70% chance. And also, they could be used to take out heavy dudy terrorists (see my thread on terrorism).

and about the Satelite, it would circle the globe, and reveal stuff, but only certain stuff. And also, if the idea of comonutications is impemented, then there would have to be satelites. And the satelite would connect with the radar, as long as you dont have a satelite up there, you dont get radar. of course the satilite could only stay up there about 10-30 turns, then you could launch another one. And also, the Siberian Special Forces unit would replace the Alpine Troops (they were russians), except be much more realistic. On dessert, grassland, plains, etc, it would be a normal infantry unit. but on ice and snow, it would move like the alpiner, and it would have a +1 to attack and defense when on the snow.

You didnt say anything about the navy SEAL unit, or the Siberian Special Forces unit, what do you think of those?
[This message has been edited by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto (edited December 15, 2000).]

Grumbold · December 16, 2000, 01:29

If snipers had a good chance of hitting enemy military leaders, Saddam's funeral would have taken place over a decade ago to name but one. I think you overestimate the effectiveness of an assassin against a military target surrounded by loyal troops. Civilian leaders in more enlightened states are much softer targets, of course.

Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto · December 16, 2000, 18:23

Darkcloud, the "individual" units I talked about will be called, 'leader' units. even in civ2 not all units are groups. if they were, then you are saying that the diplomat is a group of 100 dips, walking into enemy cities, yea, sure, thats realistic.

Tical_2000 · December 16, 2000, 20:14

quote:

Originally posted by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto on 12-16-2000 05:23 PM
Even in civ2 not all units are groups. if they were, then you are saying that the diplomat is a group of 100 dips, walking into enemy cities, yea, sure, thats realistic.

Don't be stupid! And yeah, pretty much all units in civ are groups! If not, then it would be taking 300-400 years for a city to grab a single citizen, arm him with a stick and deploy him as a warrior! Yea, sure, that's realistic.

Matthew Hayden · December 16, 2000, 20:28

I think there should be a renaisance age marine unit,
or, if there is a Design Workshop like in SMAC, have a special ability like 'Can Beach Assault' or something.
This flag would enable the unit (infantry only) to attack a tile occupied by enemy units straight from a transport. This unit could also unload directly into
an enemy city.

Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto · December 16, 2000, 22:59

Tical, calm down, the suggestion of a 'sniper' unit was as I said, only a SUGGESTION, so dont jump on me. And I think it is a great idea for the Spy/diplomat to have an added choice of stuff: Assasination. When they came upon a 'leader' unit, or an army, or city, it would be given the choice of assasination. When it faces a single 'leader' unit, it has a 70% chance of success, when facing an army, a 50% chance. and when doing it in a city, it has a 30% chance of success. When it succeeds with a single leader unit, of course the unit is killed, with an army, it must wait at its current location for 5 turns, and its defence is -1. when a city, its governer, or leader of the city is killed, and the city goes into disorder for 5 turns, giving the enemy a perfect snatch. Any other ideas?

p.s. Welcome to Apolyton Young.
[This message has been edited by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto (edited December 16, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto (edited December 16, 2000).]

Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto · December 21, 2000, 00:16

*Bump*

Grumbold · December 21, 2000, 10:02

I'm all in favour of different nationalities being able to rename their unit types. So if a player wants their S.O. guys called SEALs and another prefers Pink Elephants then they can both have what they want. Assassination as a facet of the diplomat or spy piece seems better than wasting a whole extra unit to achieve one goal.

Deathwalker · December 21, 2000, 10:19

I like some of your ideas but why on earth would only America have Seals or the british commanders, why not just have one unit. But I do like the transport and the Satelite idea though.

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I have walked since the dawn of time and were ever I walk, death is sure to follow

Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto · December 21, 2000, 14:57

I can see that most people just want one 'elite' unit, well, here it is: S.O.C., or S.O.F, meaning: Secial Operations Corps, or, Special Operations Forces. what do you think?

airdrik · December 24, 2000, 00:30

I agree with Grumbold, being able to name different units. It wouldn't be that hard to implement and no extra units would be needed. In fact, two civs could decide to name one unit the same thing. (though a civ cannot name a unit something already being used by another civ for a different unit).

Then you can have the US navy SEALS and the Brittish commandos, or the US commandos and the Brittish navy SEALS. or the US SEALS and the Brittish SEALS. or the US Commandos and the Brittish commandos...

You get my drift.

[This message has been edited by airdrik (edited December 23, 2000).]

IG-88 · December 24, 2000, 05:19

Diablo, you said that a sniper should have a 50% chance of killing a leader in an army and a 30 % chance in a city. Wouldn't it be harder to kill a leader in an army, sourrounded always by troops and officers, than it would in a city where a sniper can hide in buildings and also make a pretty easy get away?