Cheating Russians - Page 5

Serb · February 27, 2002, 07:25

Well, I saw another list.
If all “questionable” medals were included, then the final list will be absolutely different. And USA in this list will not be third.

Serb · February 27, 2002, 07:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaak
of course we care, but that doesn't mean we are going to fix anything...

Don’t make me laugh.
The Olympic games always was a dirty fight. Every country lobbies its self-interests; sometimes with use of any means, even dirty means. And you did it very good because these games were in USA.
Remind my please, when last time USA team gain such success on winter Olympic? I wonder if you ever were third in medal account on winter Olympic games.

Serb · February 27, 2002, 08:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Hardly. I think most others just got tired. Who enjoys to discuss with a parrot?

Well, you asked me who? You can find a many people who enjoyed to see how two “crazy” Russians trying to defend their country. For example:

Quote:

but i'm having too much fun watching serb debate with ming

And I am realize that some people count us as “international laughingstocks”

Quote:

I am also sad to see that they seem so bent on making themselves international laughingstocks.

or even “nutjobs” (The Vagabond enlighten me about this word)

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Man, you're a nutjob. I'm also rapidly beginning to believe that your country is inhabited entirely by nutjobs as well.

I don’t care about this, the truth is on our side.
Kak tam Stalin govoril? “Nashe delo pravoe i my pobedim”.

Serb · February 27, 2002, 08:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Hardly. I think most others just got tired. Who enjoys to discuss with a parrot?

Well, you asked me who? You can find a many people who enjoyed to see how two “crazy” Russians trying to defend their country. For example:

Quote:

but i'm having too much fun watching serb debate with ming

And I am realize that some people count us as “international laughingstocks”

Quote:

I am also sad to see that they seem so bent on making themselves international laughingstocks.

or even “nutjobs” (The Vagabond enlighten me about this word)

Quote:

Man, you're a nutjob. I'm also rapidly beginning to believe that your country is inhabited entirely by nutjobs as well.

I don’t care about this, the truth is on our side.
Kak tam Stalin govoril? “Nashe delo pravoe i my pobedim”.

Serb · February 27, 2002, 08:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaak
of course we care, but that doesn't mean we are going to fix anything...

Don’t make me laugh.
The Olympic games always was a dirty fight. Every country lobbies its self-interests; sometimes with use of any means, even dirty means. And you did it very good because these games were in USA.
Remind my please, when last time USA team gain such success on winter Olympic? I wonder if you ever were third in medal account on winter Olympic games.

Sikander · February 27, 2002, 08:45

I think the thread has been a bit unfair to the Russians, what with the piling on and all.

1) The pairs figure skating debacle

It seems obvious that the fix was in here, and the Russian pair was 'supposed' to win barring any ugly spills. The plan began to unravel in part because the Canadian pair skated much better and were more or less skating on home ice. The crowd reaction to the scores IMO kicked the investigation and the awarding of the second set of gold medals into gear. If not for that this would have been handled like other cases of cheating in the past. Tough luck to the people who got cheated.

2) The doping tests

I'm not sure how the U.S. gets blamed for this. These tests are done by international bodies, and the U.S. certainly didn't give a damn about who would win these races, because we knew well that we wouldn't. I don't know the particulars regarding the rules for these events, but it could be just as the Russian posters here are saying, and the Russians were put under the microscope outside the rules. This reminds me of the movie Apocalypse Now:

"Kurtz's patrols were coming under frequent ambush. Kurtz without authorization ordered the assassination of 4 South Vietnamese citizens. Enemy activity in his sector dropped to zero. "

'I guess he got the right four people.'

So perhaps the IOC's methods were unsound.

3) The South Korean Skater gets DQed

This was a judgement call. I saw several slow motion replays from different angles, and the SK skater did change lanes off the turn to block. This type of offense is similar to a foul in basketball, where you could call a foul every 5 seconds, but you don't in order to allow the game to flow. There was a violation but it would not have been called in every race. Even so, Ohno would have won the silver medal.

Finally to our Russian posters, I know how you guys feel. There was a basketball game in 1972, and a corrupt Eastern Bloc timekeeper let the game run long, and the Russians scored a basket during the extra time and beat the U.S. by one point. It was a big scandal here, we were pissed. Let me just say from experience that you will get over it eventually. I for instance got over the 1972 basketball scandal sometime last year.

Harovan · February 27, 2002, 08:48

Serb, I don't know why you feel encouraged to defend your country, like a broken record repeating the same conspiracy theory and denying proven facts.

When I hear that Muehlegg was caught doping, I say it's a shame for all: Muehlegg himself, Spain and Germany. And it would be wise of the Spanish officials to check this guy better in the future. I have no problem admitting it.

Your ladies got caught, and all I hear is, "They did not have the right to check it, and all countries are conspiring to steal deserved medals from Russia".

Serb · February 27, 2002, 09:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Sikander
It seems obvious that the fix was in here, and the Russian pair was 'supposed' to win barring any ugly spills.

Then why Russian’s ref’s scores was not the highest one? Where is logic? It is much easier to bribe own judge, then foreign.

Quote:

The plan began to unravel in part because the Canadian pair skated much better and were more or less skating on home ice.

The Canadian pair skates without any mistake, while Russian pair made one SLIGHT mistake. But Russian’s program was MUCH complicated.

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The crowd reaction to the scores IMO kicked the investigation and the awarding of the second set of gold medals into gear.

This thing is really driving me mad. When Canadians protest, sure it’s Ok, let’s give them medals. When Russian protest- get lost, you are paranoids who still live in Cold war, you just can’t accept defeat properly.
It’s very fair.

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Finally to our Russian posters, I know how you guys feel. There was a basketball game in 1972, and a corrupt Eastern Bloc timekeeper let the game run long, and the Russians scored a basket during the extra time and beat the U.S. by one point. It was a big scandal here, we were pissed.

You think they revenge to us for this game?

Quote:

Let me just say from experience that you will get over it eventually. I for instance got over the 1972 basketball scandal sometime last year.

Thanks for support. I think that we’ll survive this of course. I’m also think that on next Olympic games which will be on neutral ground, our team will put all points under “i”.

Serb · February 27, 2002, 09:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Your ladies got caught, and all I hear is, "They did not have the right to check it, and all countries are conspiring to steal deserved medals from Russia".

Our ladies team was not caught . It was REMOVED from race without any legal reason. After they make all checks of Lazutina’s blood they didn’t find anything and have no choice but let she run in next discipline. Only after she wins gold in last discipline, in her blood they found something, and btw it is very questionable was this drug a doping or not. This case is not close yet, not for us.
But our protests are not about Lazutina. The protest about others.

Ming · February 27, 2002, 09:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Serb
Don’t make me laugh.
The Olympic games always was a dirty fight. Every country lobbies its self-interests; sometimes with use of any means, even dirty means. And you did it very good because these games were in USA.

Every country... and where is your proof. Maybe you feel that way because that is the attitude of Russia toward sports, win at all costs...

Again... you offer up no proof that America cheated...
Yet there is proof that you cheated.

Do you still deny that you cheated?
All I hear are excuses... blaming others... or you saying that it is OK because everybody else does.

Admit it... you got caught... all your silly excuses are just that...

And no, you aren't making any "progress". The Russians were still caught cheating, and that hasn't changed.

Serb · February 27, 2002, 09:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
When I hear that Muehlegg was caught doping, I say it's a shame for all: Muehlegg himself, Spain and Germany. And it would be wise of the Spanish officials to check this guy better in the future. I have no problem admitting it.

Did you saw somewhere a thread “Cheating Spanish/Germans”

Serb · February 27, 2002, 10:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming
Every country... and where is your proof. Maybe you feel that way because that is the attitude of Russia toward sports, win at all costs...

I’ve known that someone will say so. It is not wise.
Boy, you are too far away from big sport. I do not want to waste my time on you.

Ming · February 27, 2002, 10:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Serb

I’ve known that someone will say so. It is not wise.
Boy, you are too far away from big sport. I do not want to waste my time on you.

Yes... bury your head in the sand... Answer the question... DO YOU DENY THAT YOU GOT CAUGHT CHEATING...
Or are you just saying that's OK since everybody else does it.

Harovan · February 27, 2002, 10:14

Another round of the broken record. As for the thread, no, I didn't see one, but you are free to start it.

Serb · February 27, 2002, 11:21

I will not, but one American already started it, but Ming closed this thread. This thread was called- Olympics+cheeting=germany Norway Russiaan
It perfectly shows American attitude to countries which doing better then them. Notice Germany, Norge and Russia. They claims as cheaters their major competitors not for example Luxemburg or Croatia. You might find it there-
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=42723

And there you might find that Russians are not alone in their "conspiracy theory"-
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=42959

Rogan Josh · February 27, 2002, 11:27

It was the Korean chap who I felt sorry for

Serb · February 27, 2002, 11:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming

Yes... bury your head in the sand... Answer the question... DO YOU DENY THAT YOU GOT CAUGHT CHEATING...

I’ve already answered this question, our protests not about this case, but for many others, because in this case (Lazutina) it will be very difficult for us to prove anything.

Yes... bury your head in the sand... Answer the question... DO YOU DENY THAT IT WAS THE WORST, THE MOST SCANDAL OLYMPIC GAMES EVER? DO YOU DENY THAT IT FIRST TIME WHEN USA ACVIEVED SUCH HIGH PLACE-THIRD IN MEDAL ACCOUNT ON WINTER OLYMPIC GAMES?

Ming · February 27, 2002, 11:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Serb
I will not, but one American already started it, but Ming closed this thread. This thread was called- Olympics+cheeting=germany Norway Russiaan

If you notice... not one person responded in a serious fashion... every post was pure spam... so it was closed for that reason.

Quote:

It perfectly shows American attitude to countries which doing better then them. Notice Germany, Norge and Russia. They claims as cheaters their major competitors not for example Luxemburg or Croatia.

uhhhh... when was Russia ever doing better the USA in these Olympics.
And maybe the thread was started because that's who the IOC (not the USA) was claiming who cheated

Quote:

And there you might find that Russians are not alone in their "conspiracy theory"-
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=42959

And it remains a theory... again... any proof.

So why don't you answer the question. Do you deny that Russia cheated? And again, do you or anybody else have proof to support your claims that everybody cheated?

All you do is make excuses... try to point the blame somewhere else... accuse other people with no proof, yet deny that you were caught...

Maybe you should wake up and face reality for a change.

Serb · February 27, 2002, 11:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
It was the Korean chap who I felt sorry for

Of course Koreans are great, Canadians is perfect, only Russians are bastards/cheaters who can’t accept defeat properly.
Half of our team, all our leading sportsman received such attitude as this Korean chap, and even worse. You felt sorry for him, while you call us cheaters/paranoids. Thanks a lot.

KrazyHorse · February 27, 2002, 11:41

Go get 'em Tsar Wiggovitch!

Harovan · February 27, 2002, 11:42

Oh well, I didn't see this thread (no big loss), but if I did, I would care no more about it than for a warm, wet fart. As well as this thread, but I just wonder how you can dare to deny proven facts, that's the reason why I post this. An acceptable reaction would be, ok, regrettable both ladies got caught cheating, but that does reflect nothing to the results of the other Russian athletes, who were clean. Period. And everybody would agree. But the way you wind here, and blame everybody but Russians for lying, unfair tests, conspiring and acting cowardly is amazing.

Ming · February 27, 2002, 11:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Serb
I’ve already answered this question, our protests not about this case, but for many others, because in this case (Lazutina) it will be very difficult for us to prove anything.

Yeah... it will be difficult since he cheated. And you refuse to admit it, and just make excuses.

Quote:

Yes... bury your head in the sand... Answer the question... DO YOU DENY THAT IT WAS THE WORST, THE MOST SCANDAL OLYMPIC GAMES EVER?

No... it wasn't. Actually, it's a scandal when the cheaters don't get caught. This Olympics will send the message that if you cheat, you will get caught.

Quote:

DO YOU DENY THAT IT FIRST TIME WHEN USA ACVIEVED SUCH HIGH PLACE-THIRD IN MEDAL ACCOUNT ON WINTER OLYMPIC GAMES?

Why should I deny it... it's true. We won. You assume since somebody beat you, that they must have cheated. Again, you offer no proof.

Your country got caught... That's a fact. And even you claim, there is nothing to be done... and why is that. The answer is simple... it's called cheating.

KrazyHorse · February 27, 2002, 11:51

If the IOC is so pro-NA, then why (2 or 3 olympics ago, in the summer) did Canada get 3 medals taken away from it? One of the medals (rowing) was revoked for the presence of a common cold medication in the drug test. Now you're *****ing that an actual performance-enhancing drug can get you kicked out?

Canada sucked it up and made a major commitment to ensuring that its athletes are clean. You guys need to do the same thing, and you need to do it without pointing the finger at anyone except yourselves.

Serb · February 27, 2002, 12:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming
And maybe the thread was started because that's who the IOC (not the USA) was claiming who cheated

And may be it shows who is in charge in IOC.

Quote:

Why should I deny it... it's true. We won. You assume since somebody beat you, that they must have cheated. Again, you offer no proof.

You won.

Im tired of it, really.
Did I ever claimed that Germans, btw who actully win those games was in conspiracy against Russians?
Americans were in charge in those games, and they “helped” to their sportsman using any means, ANY. That’s why you achieved such high place.
I can accept the defeat, if it’s a fair defeat.

Quote:

Your country got caught... That's a fact. And even you claim, there is nothing to be done... and why is that. The answer is simple... it's called cheating.

The court will show it. While I do not trust to your court, but this all we can do now.
Actually that’s not all we can do. I can promise to you that on next Games in Italy, on neutral ground, will kick your asses really hard.

Ming · February 27, 2002, 12:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Serb
Americans were in charge in those games, and they “helped” to their sportsman using any means, ANY. That’s why you achieved such high place.
I can accept the defeat, if it’s a fair defeat.

Again... who got caught for cheating.

Serb · February 27, 2002, 12:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming

Yeah... it will be difficult since he cheated. And you refuse to admit it, and just make excuses.

Perfect, you don't know what are you talking about.
Lazutina is the women, not man.
Once again our protests not about her or Danilova. Our protests about other our sportsmen. Abt, Slutskaia, etc.
I am tired of this, and I'm leaving. May be I'll return tommorow, I've enjoed speaking to such brainwashed guys who do not want to notice facts. Don't ask my which facts, you still will be unable to notice them even if I'll tell you. Btw I've allready named those facts, but only small part of them.

Ming · February 27, 2002, 12:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Serb
I've enjoed speaking to such brainwashed guys who do not want to notice facts.

The facts are really simple... The Russians got caught.
So who is the brainwashed guy here...

Serb · February 27, 2002, 12:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Oh well, I didn't see this thread (no big loss), but if I did, I would care no more about it than for a warm, wet fart. As well as this thread, but I just wonder how you can dare to deny proven facts, that's the reason why I post this.

Ralph,
I do not deny, that those two ladies were caught in cheating. And I am not saying that they are good or they done a good thing. I do not want to say anything about those two. The case is on investigation yet, at least for me. Until I’ll be absolutely sure that in there blood where found a traces of ILLEGAL drug, or otherwise I do not want to discuss it.
Once again-“ Kto ishet tot vsegda naidet”
I’ve talking about others sportsmans, who were treated unfair, and about fact that entire our team was treated unfair.

datakodin · February 27, 2002, 13:08

2 OT Forum Moderator if he/she exists

#1.
"Insults, flames, hatred comments, spamming, advertisements are an abuse of your priviledge to post and can result to a penalty" /Apolyton Forum FAQ/

#2.
"Ruskie is a slang term for all slavic speaking people, Croats, Bulgars, Poles, Ukrainians, and Russians"
(see post of SieGermans, 25-02-2002 18:44

#3.
The slang word - Ruskies - is used in the name of this tread. Certainly, it is insulting me and many of other Russian readers. So, it is in contradiction to #1.

#4.
Shall I expect that the tread will be renamed and the proper name for my nation will be used instead of the insulting slang word?

Sincerely Yours.

Ming · February 27, 2002, 13:14

No problem... thread name changed.