Beyond Alpha Centauri::: Discussion Thread 3

[GeneralTacticus]

Quite frankly, why are we arguing over who attacked who first and why? Which side is in the wrong depends on which side you ask (i.e. it's always the other side), and the only way it matters is the way people think of the two sides. So, TA and TAF will believe Morgan is the aggressor, and the Spartans, Morganites etc will consider TAF the aggressor. No-one is going to change their minds about this, so don't bother arguing over it.

Mellian: Can you actually name one weakness in the TAF that you agree they have? So far I can't remember any...

[Mellian]

Why exactly has the TA just all of a sudden become dominate when at the first it seemed little more than a loose union.

have I not explained that a few times already? TA was the sleeping giant... morganites got into a silly war instigated by InEn, which they responded with military action way to quick which started to make TA really worried by the chironians. Then, the morganites took Capella... and now, TA is in war mode lead by the TAF which is lead by Kerensky. After seeing the problems, the Council easily see the need to make some things tighter despite Coalition and InEn complaints...and InEn as been put down by the council and will be absorbed by the TAF.

And why is the EC so humbled into accepting it when they clearly are a dominate part of the TA.

They are the biggest member, but doesn't mean they run TA... sure they may of had quite some influence, but slowly started to get countered by the TAF, the police and defenders of TA you can say, which slowly and quietly grew in military strength over the years, becoming a dominate military force within TA, not controlled by any members. When the problems and hostilies started, Coalition influence started to plummet and TAF gains in power politicly...and now leads the war, which they were chartered to do when there is a war involving all of TA. Now, after the InEn instigation of war, the union is becoming more tighter..... which does make sense. I do agree things went a bit to fast, but not my fault... and not interested in seeing TA going behind either, pushed around and loose territory...which they already have few of.

Why does the University seem so eager to drop a very advantagous partnership with Morgan for the chance to buddy up to Yang who they have had no contact with for hundreds of years.

wonder about that too

I'm just reminded of the fate of the Chiron Chroncles. This was always meant to be a way to be able to expand on the stories, when in CC there was only so much that you could do. Again these are just thoughts of mine.

BAC as more room to play with....but some people are starting to take advantage of it to much and the pace of the game way to fast.

-LMP

[Kassiopeia]

Actually, the Coalition won't be so subduing in the future - they are willing to hook up with Yang, much to the dispisement of the Alliance - this will cause friction, that will erupt in the near future.

[Mellian]

Originally posted by Sprayber
I would like to address the issue of superpowers. Exactly what do you mean when you say Superpower?

right now, the super powers i see if the Drone Republic, Morganite Interstellar, Spartan Federation, Greater Hive Empire and the Peacekeepers because they all have quite an influence and impact in Human space diplomaticly, politicly, military, intelligence, and so on....

Want to see TA to start having a impact in human space.... what is so wrong with that?

-LMP

[Kassiopeia]

What's wrong with this picture (no, this is not something to scare you up) - It appears that 'Poly is definitely acting up on me...

http://personal.phpoint.net/nortti/history.jpg

[Mellian]

Originally posted by kassiopeia


But... they are in a state of war, right? It would be crazy if they wouldn't response in some way - they just can't go around shooting at people, now can they?

Stop writing so much, I don't have the time to read...

well, i am staying out late to keep up with the discussion thread

anyway, sure they can, they are evasive and devious pirates Chironians give up trying to seriously try to put down the pirates, or try to get a long lasting treaties and so on....been state of war as general way of life...they ARE pirates. Pirate Faction is too fragmented and lack a central Gov...yet still mostly stick together TA will simply learn. besides, was thinking to have Kane Revolution happen and have them help against the morganites and other factions as one big distraction.

-LMP

[Mellian]

Originally posted by kassiopeia
Mellian:

Sorry, i was unaware of how big the TAF would be in in the battle - The Coalition Battle Squadron will be sufficient, right? Helping in taking out the Orbitals, I would presume. The Terran marines can do the groundwork...
But, who'll write about that?

I would if i can get around to it.

-LMP

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Mellian


I would if i can get around to it.

-LMP

Goodgoodgood.

[Mellian]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
Quite frankly, why are we arguing over who attacked who first and why? Which side is in the wrong depends on which side you ask (i.e. it's always the other side), and the only way it matters is the way people think of the two sides. So, TA and TAF will believe Morgan is the aggressor, and the Spartans, Morganites etc will consider TAF the aggressor. No-one is going to change their minds about this, so don't bother arguing over it.

not believe, they KNOW. the MI vs TA war started because of MI taking Capella, which had nothing to do with the InEn incident. As far as TA is concern, the Morganites took Capella because TA naturally tried to defend Callisto and retook the moon.
SO, not into the idea of having all of the CHironians vs Terrans over a TA retaliation fairly against the morganites for attacking them.

Mellian: Can you actually name one weakness in the TAF that you agree they have? So far I can't remember any...

They depend on the TA as they are solely a military organization, not really a seperate faction. seriously don't have much political power within TA or in the Council, and the powers are giving by the Council and their Charter. They have to deal with the internal problems of TA.... technologicly inferior to the Chironians and so on. they are heavily ignored by players and their factions

-LMP

[Mellian]

Originally posted by kassiopeia
Actually, the Coalition won't be so subduing in the future - they are willing to hook up with Yang, much to the dispisement of the Alliance - this will cause friction, that will erupt in the near future.

like it was planned...while hoping the SK don't get into that habit as well.

-LMP

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Mellian


like it was planned...while hoping the SK don't get into that habit as well.

-LMP

SK?

[GeneralTacticus]

not believe, they KNOW. the MI vs TA war started because of MI taking Capella, which had nothing to do with the InEn incident. As far as TA is concern, the Morganites took Capella because TA naturally tried to defend Callisto and retook the moon.

The point I'm trying to make is that while the TA may 'know' that Morgan is the aggressor, the other factions may see it differently.

SO, not into the idea of having all of the CHironians vs Terrans over a TA retaliation fairly against the morganites for attacking them.

I doubt the other Chironian factions would want to get involved if the TA just confines itself to taking a few Morganite systems and then making peace, but if they try to keep conquering, the others may not like that.

[Cybergod]

Originally posted by kassiopeia
SK?

The Saturn Kingdom you Earther!

Mellian I am unsure about our future in the TA if they continue this war with Morganities and their allies. GIVE PEACE A CHANCE!

History I'll write up the the story with Quantum Shadow up to the point their ship docks with your "diplomatic ship". OK?

Mellian, the greep faces have dropped in population but still like 10 fr1gg1n' pages after pages after pages...

--Nikola

[Frankychan]

The Hive rules!!!


Cheee Heee!!!!!!


Im drunk right now so ....my bad!

[History Guy]

Thanks General Tacitus.

I myself grow tired of this incessant gibbering and yippity-yacking! If we keep jawing like this we'll never actually get any work done! For someone who has no time to write actual posts for BAC, Mellian, you sure do write a lot of other stuff...

Cyber-- Sounds OK to me.

As for peace, don't worry, as soon as Samnos falls, we'll see some peace coming alright, if the plan Sprayber and I have cooked up works...

Kass, Mellian, and Franky reading that we have a plan:

[Sprayber]

To be fair with Mellian, he brings up good points. I hope no one thinks this is personal in the least. I know it must seem odd two people arguing about who started a fictional war and I hope everyone sees that it's done in good fun.


As for the plan, I'm sure the Hive especially might be more than disappointed in the turn of events. Poor Yang tried so hard. I

[Mellian]

I had time last night because it is weekend and unlike my last rotation, the comp doesn't crash and the internet is quite reliable, while not located on the second floor near the sleeping rooms, which would wake people up. I also stayed up until 3:30am last night too if there was less argument where i feel compelled to give my two cents about, even if it is for the fun of it, i would of been able to keeep up with the story AND start posting in the story

reason i want TA to become a super-power baseon the definition i gave is because i AM NOTinterested in seeing them be a push over, that TA as no power and so on. Also, TA seem to have the most disadvantages as well, which to me is unfair...and the looseness of TA (will become tighter) is being taken advantage of way to much....and TA/TAF is being ignored as factor too, which is so evident in the beginning and annoys me TAF exist for a reason. oh and people making assumptions as well

I don't plan to push the war longer then i wanted to, but sure depends on what the other factions are going to be. Kerensky is only interested right now in atleast attacking and taking three morganite systems, (ratio wise, loosing one and get three is a fair exchange) which they won't give up as part of negociations, or make any comprimises but a standard don't attack me and i won't attack you treaty. If the morganites and so on can't accept that, then war continues until the Aggressor(s) stop and make peace....TA may even consider asking help on mediating. TAF won't overextend themselves either, so do expect current TA systems to be quite concentrated of ships and defences. Anyway, doesn't make sense for everyone to get involve in this war anyway, bad enough that the Hive is helping because of the Coalition, and the Spartans joining in to help defend the systems being threatened (don't expect all systems to have spartan fleets) I also personally don't want seeing the Protectorate involve as well, just makes a one on one war into a Human wide thing.

Also, i also request chironian players to keep their factions to the minimal when ever the TAF/Coalition friction causes a spark... want to keep it a TA internal thing, and between the TAF and Coalition. Sure Coalition doesn't like being subdued, but TAF will have no choice to take actions against them if they cannot behave or atleast stop in meddling with other factions that counter TA policies.... then we can have bunch of internal problems afterwards

-LMP

[History Guy]

Sprayber-- I do agree!

Mellian-- Right, well I'd like to get out of any argument about a fictional war right about now, thank you.

I'd like to have peace now as much as the other bloke. Both Sprayber and Lonestar have promised that they will, with their government's support, bring some peace here...through one way or another...heheheheheh...

[Mellian]

I read the Datalinks...

Lonestar, don't name the Hferhin world Aiur I was thinking to have the Protoss in the galaxy, 30k lightyears away from Sol.... minus them having the Terran problem

I do notice that you used names from Harry Turtledoves World War books

anyway, quick note of ages of the galaxy.....

Age of the Ancients
-Fraal
-Xel'Naga

Age of Unity


Age of War


Age of Silence


Age of the Old
-Proginators


Age of Peace


Second Age of War


Age of Darkness (present)


-LMP

[Mellian]

Originally posted by History Guy
Sprayber-- I do agree!

Mellian-- Right, well I'd like to get out of any argument about a fictional war right about now, thank you.

I'd like to have peace now as much as the other bloke. Both Sprayber and Lonestar have promised that they will, with their government's support, bring some peace here...through one way or another...heheheheheh...

How in the world did the Protectorate got involved anyway?????? The coming attacks suppose to be a surprise, out of nowhere... not something known from advance and exactly where the targets are. TA isn't a open book darnit and I already said that the TAF will be leading the attacks, and will give the targets to member fleets in the last minute, so spies don't know the targets.

SO, doesn't make sense to have the Protectorate at those systems. Maybe some Spartans, but full fleets of their ships, come on!!! If factions continue to acquire information from godlike sources, and i will stop stating the intentions and plans of TA, atleast in full detail. When TA declares war, it should be like under a month since Capella was taken... so not a lot of time for a lot of things to happen, except short term stuff like the spy stuff Sure the Morganites may possible expect something from the TA, but exactly what No.

Also, not in the idea of whole sale slaughter of TA ships... they will loose enough as it is, and slightly more during the TAF/Coalition spark.

-LMP

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Mellian
reason i want TA to become a super-power baseon the definition i gave is because i AM NOTinterested in seeing them be a push over, that TA as no power and so on. Also, TA seem to have the most disadvantages as well, which to me is unfair...and the looseness of TA (will become tighter) is being taken advantage of way to much....and TA/TAF is being ignored as factor too, which is so evident in the beginning and annoys me TAF exist for a reason. oh and people making assumptions as well

Actually the Spartans talked and talked to the TA. But no one was home.

(ratio wise, loosing one and get three is a fair exchange) which they won't give up as part of negociations, or make any comprimises but a standard don't attack me and i won't attack you treaty. If the morganites and so on can't accept that, then war continues until the Aggressor(s) stop and make peace....TA may even consider asking help on mediating.

The Isralies need a PR man, anyone that can convince an enemy that gaining one system and loosing three is fair has to be working in PR or advertising

TAF won't overextend themselves either, so do expect current TA systems to be quite concentrated of ships and defences. Anyway, doesn't make sense for everyone to get involve in this war anyway, bad enough that the Hive is helping because of the Coalition, and the Spartans joining in to help defend the systems being threatened (don't expect all systems to have spartan fleets) I also personally don't want seeing the Protectorate involve as well, just makes a one on one war into a Human wide thing.

The current Spartan plan won't need Spartan ships in every system. That is unless the Terrans really are the aggressors and the Spartans are really the noble party in all of this

Also, i also request chironian players to keep their factions to the minimal when ever the TAF/Coalition friction causes a spark... want to keep it a TA internal thing, and between the TAF and Coalition. Sure Coalition doesn't like being subdued, but TAF will have no choice to take actions against them if they cannot behave or atleast stop in meddling with other factions that counter TA policies.... then we can have bunch of internal problems afterwards

The Spartans will only be too happy to allow Earth to settle it's own problems, as long as those problems remain in Earth territory. I might add that the only the Hive has been involved in fiendish plots to distabilize Earth and the TA. They are sneaky

History Guy: There are alternatives out there, aren't there

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Mellian


How in the world did the Protectorate got involved anyway?????? The coming attacks suppose to be a surprise, out of nowhere... not something known from advance and exactly where the targets are. TA isn't a open book darnit and I already said that the TAF will be leading the attacks, and will give the targets to member fleets in the last minute, so spies don't know the targets.

-LMP

I'm a bit puzzled about the appearence of the Protect. myself. But for the Spartans, the Coperate Sector is a major supplier of Spartan minerals for war production. If we want to get technical about it, the Spartans actually discoved the planets first and requested that the Morganites move in and develope the systems cause at the time Sparta didn't have the resources to exploit them alone. This was mentioned in my original timeline long ago. Over time, they just remained Morganite territory for convience and since they actually did all the development.

edit: The Spartans actually only discovered one of them and the Morganites were responsible for discovering the rest of them.

[Sovereign]

The alliance with the Hive is to counter the Protectorate threat. After all, the Protectorate is a common threat to Hive and University, especially after the Roving incident. University was peacefully exploring systems, posing no threat to anyone. They weren't attacking any systems or ships, and mainly used "first contact" procedures when encountering new aliens or human factions.

When University found the relay station, they were curious to its origins and function, so they hacked into it. They gathered tidbits of information, learning about the existence of the Protectorate, and University doesn't usually share information unless is agreed upon by both "parties".

Then the University explorer was attacked by the Protectorate, in a blatantly hostile manner, and University fired back after it was attacked upon. Therefore the Protectorate was the aggressor in this matter.

So in face of the Protectorate threat, University allies itself with the Hive to ensure both factions's survival. In addition, University was the only faction to help Hive out on Chiron, and University would want to continue beneficial relationships with Hive.

Also, when the time comes to choose sides between Morganites and Hive, it'll be the most agonizing choice for the University since leaving Chiron, as well as being compounded by the robotic civil war.

University won't become involved with the TA - MI war.


By the way, I was wondering if I could open more diplomatic channels with the TA? I mean, I'd like to improve relations with the TA, and perhaps increase trade, technology trading, or whatever? But rest assured University will be like the Scions or Fraal, staying non-interfere in TA affairs.


Phew, hope that helps explain why University allies with the Hive.

[History Guy]

LordMP-- The Protectorate entered in all of the sudden, you'd have to ask Lonestar why he came up on Morgan all the sudden, as I'm not totally sure myself. As for how we now you are coming, our sensors picked you guys up in the area, as a whole battle fleet coming for Samnos doesn't go unnoticed. Our spies have little to do with it. The direction of your ships, and of the advancing Hive ships does. We can identify the origins of the ships as well. Won't be too much slaughter of Terran ships, as I think the Hive is coming in first, and should take much of the damage.

Sprayber-- Thanks, old chap. Alternatives? Well, we two have our own alternatives, heh heh heh...isn't that 'heh heh heh' annoying?

Anyway, yeah, we know what to do when Samnos goes...heh heh heh...there it is again!!

Now, I just did that casino post. It ain't much, and it ain't even that interesting...but it does tell you the Morganite motto!!

[History Guy]

Franky-- Will you be able to do your post today after all?

[Lonestar]

Are you saying that somehow....The Protectorate wouldn't be able to relise a bloody war was going on between the TA and Morgan Industries?

Oh yeah, and as for the Morgan Industries thing, we're just deciding to "Open up" with the most profitable factions. As a prelude to coalition-building against the GHE.


And the University was the aggresor, not the Protectorate!

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Sprayber
Actually the Spartans talked and talked to the TA. But no one was home.

Look now, there really is one thing you people should understand. Sure, I did not write a single post in four weeks, but that did not mean that the TA would not listen. Sure, I made a mistake and forgot to post a response in my last post, but it does not mean that they are ignoring the Spartans. It just means that the writer is, erm, busy and has a bad memory.

[Kassiopeia]

Gack. The joints in my fingers ache. All because of you guys. Not really, playing FFVIII on PSX for eight hours straight might have something to do with it...

Hey, new post!

But, no space battle, not yet.

Like I said, my fingers are burning.

[History Guy]

Kass-- Nice post. So the Terrans aren't really the crummy little piglets we all thought they were!

By the way, my casino post may seem a little odd...but don't worry, it has something to do with the plot!

[Kassiopeia]

With my worn-out, sparkling, crackling and grinding fingers I write these words:

A man is on an island. The island is full of women. The women threaten to kill the man. The man wants a last wish. He gets it. He makes the wish, and *tadaa* he won't get killed.

What's the wish? Damn, this has kept me up for late nights! It's not "he asked a man to kill him", though that is *very* close.