Cradle 1.3

[Spanscape]

Actually, the game I have crashing is only 8 civs and is on a medium size map. In addition, I have yet to conquer a single civ, and maxplayer is set to 0 while numPlayers is set to 9 (8 + 1 barb).

Playing these settings multiplayer with the Apolyton mod has yet to produce a crash in several games.

[stankarp]

I am certain it only happens on ultra-gigantic map.

Interesting that it only happens when the player saves, not during auto save. There must be a difference in the way the saves are executed. Wonder if the answer is there ?

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by stankarp
When CTP 2 first came out it had a save game bug, and from memory, it probably started to happen about the same time (turns wise ) as cradle(300). The official patch 1.1 was primarily designed to fix that. Maybe it would help to look at the patch. It always happened about the time i got gunpowder and cavalry.

In cradle it happens about turn 300 onwards as well. I tried resetting maxplayer to 0 and restarting the game and same thing is happening again at about the same time. I tried changeing the capture city code to have a chance of capturing a tech when I capture a city (as per Martins suggestion) but this did not work as well. Although I restarted the game rather than start a new one.

I never noticed this bug I only noticed another savegame bug after the patch if I am using the scenario structure e.g. premade maps. The bug was an extra turn bug I saved a game reloaded it and all the movement points of my units were reset, my cities good extra production, I got extra gold , extra PW and so on. The interesting thing is that Cradle 1.1 used the scenario structure and I know that this bug didn't occured in a Cradle game, maybe it could lie in one of the text files, I only know that the default text files and the patched ctp2.exe without the text files from the patch causes also this exrtra turn bug.

Originally posted by stankarp
Interesting that it only happens when the player saves, not during auto save. There must be a difference in the way the saves are executed. Wonder if the answer is there ?

The difference between normal saves games on the one hand and quick saves and auto saves on the other hand is that quick and auto saves are smaller. In addition a normal save game contains an uncompressed *.rim picture with the powergraph and a map on it that can you see on the preview screen on the load window.

-Martin

[hexagonian]

Come to think of it, in my last game, I was using both an altered maxplayer setting and a modified map setting size (between the normal gigantic and and custom gigantic map setting that I had set up for Cradle) and I was getting the crashes too (this was the first time I had any type of ingame crashes since I got the game). Autosave helped somewhat (in that I had to end a turn before quitting the game to save the turn - then launching the Autosave file when returning to the game) and there were times that I could also normally save the game, but it was inconsistent.

If players could report all factors that they are using in their game when it crashes, then we can narrow down what is causing the problems. It is entirely possible that the altered maps sizes and the maxplayer settings may be changes that the game engine may not have been designed to support - thus the crashes.

Has anyone tried any of the new Victory options? I'm wondering how easy/hard they are.

[stankarp]

Original prep patch bug.
I remember it was a slightly different bug. The save files were corrupted and would not reload, causing the game to crash, rather than crashing during the game.

Autosave.
Autosave does not appear to properly record PW in progress. At least 2 times I have reloaded from autosave when cradle crashed and roads that were completed before the crash were still being built when reloaded from autosave. Also, I am sure that sometimes the turns to next advance has defaulted back to the start for that advance but I cant say for certain. Curious

Settings for Cradle crash.
Maxplayer 0 or 20
Capture city code normal or altered.
Ultra gigantic map.
15 civs.
Turns - about 300 onwards.
I am playing on by managing my turns, ie, only saving after the start of a turn and only when there appears to be nothing critical happening and preferably just after my last advance.

Questions. Do ZOC extend into mountain squares. I had a barbarian legion move through ZOC in mountain squares. At first I thought it was because one blocking unit was a horse archer who cant go into mountain squares but I used a legion next time and the same thing happened.

[stankarp]

I tried something new yesterday. I let the computer create its new turn based save file each time I saved, rather than oversave an existing pre named file. So far, 8 or 9 saves, and touch wood, NO CRASHES.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by stankarp
I tried something new yesterday. I let the computer create its new turn based save file each time I saved, rather than oversave an existing pre named file. So far, 8 or 9 saves, and touch wood, NO CRASHES.

That must be the reason why I never encountered this problem, since I got CTP1 I am used to it to create everytime a new save game and some time late I will delete them from windows explorer. This procedure was quite pritty neccessary if you don't want to lose half of your empire to the AI entity.

-Martin

[hexagonian]

stankarp
Thanks for the update on file crashes - hopefully this procedure will help drcrease them

RE: ZOC
I'm stumped on this because both of the units mentioned do not have the NoZOC flag in them. Perhaps it is a terrain specific thing...

HERE IS AN UPDATE ALERT

Attached is the Cradle Beta version of Peter Triggs Diplo rewrite file - below is the email that he sent me that has the info about what he has done. I am really hoping that we can get some players to test this, so that it can be improved upon, and also because so many other Modders are taking a great deal of interest in this rewrite for their own Modwork. The files will not overwrite any existing Cradle files, but will create a new option called CRADLE 1.3 (Triggs Diplomod)

Peter Triggs Diplomod rewrite (Beta version)

A) If you look at NewDiplomod.slc, you'll see why it's taken me so long. I think it can safely be said that this is the most ambitious SLIC project yet undertaken. Somehow I got the idea that I should 'expose' a big chunk of the AI's response logic and this is what most of the code in there is doing. As a result it's virtually like we've got the source code in front of us. But this was a learning experience and if I were starting over from scratch I don't think I'd attempt to do it this way, it was just too time consuming.

I guess the main features of NewDiplomod are:

1) AI-AI Diplomacy is implemented.

2) Embassys are established by negotiation. (Actually, they come virtually automatically after the discovery of Dynasty. This might be too easy.)

3) No Trespassing, Ceasefire, Peace, Trade, Research, Military, and Alliance treaties all have fixed lengths.

B) I changed the trigger conditions for the surrender handler to those you suggested: it won't work until after 600 game turns and the AIciv has only 3 cities left. For the moment I've left the conditions for the messages unchanged: when you get a "We've won" message, that's the point at which they would have surrendered based on a military rank difference of 25. I think you'll find that it's really not that easy (with either setting) to get a civ to surrender, but I'm not sure that either of the above possibilities is the one we're after.

I've also left a few other messages in there that will spew out no end of data for your enjoyment. These will have to be taken out before releasing the thing on the public.

C) There's also a version of CRA_tileimp.txt where I used Sun_Tzu_159's technique to get the AI to terraform. If you compare it with the original you can see how it works and whether or not you like the specific chain of improvements I/he used. (Can't remember how much of his data I changed.)

D) While perusing some of the AI data files, I noticed that you had a BUILDING_BUILD_LIST_START but hadn't put it into any of the buildlist sequences.
Did you decide not to use it? There's a copy of CRA_buildlistsequences.txt where I've put it into all the sequences except the military ones. Maybe you've already tried this and didn't like it, but anyway it's there for you to have a look at.

E) I've included a revised version of the UnitUpdater that fixes the bug where if you try to update a unit in a stack of 12, you only end up with a stack of 11 and also the bug where you got the message about 0 units. Since these were the only bugs that have been reported since last Summer, I think it's safe to say it's bug free.

F) In CRA_script.slc, I've outcommented CRA_frenzy.slc. When I had a close look at it the other day, I was amazed at how many bugs I found. I doubt that it does much and what it does do is pretty much of a fluke. I suggest playing without it for awhile and seeing if you notice much difference.

Later comment: I don't know how that thing works, but it does do something under some circumstances. Playing without it for the past couple of days, I just don't see the big stacks.

G) Given the size of NewDiplomod, the chances that it's bug free are negligible. Also, I think it's going to need some balancing, but that's what beta testing is for.

Almost every time I've tried it I've got a different sort of game. I'm worried that it unbalances the science dimension in particular. See what you think, it is adjustable.

The file is below - as usual, please report any missing files, game crashes ASAP, although Peter has been testing these files on his Cradle setup.

This file has also been updated as per spanscape's post below

[Locutus]

Originally posted by hexagonian
I am really hoping that we can get some players to test this,

Woohoo! (we need a : party : smily) I've thrown my agenda and to-do list out the window. If anyone needs me: tough luck, 'cause I'll be playing Cradle all night
(Unfortunately I have to work all weekend so I can only play tonight )

[Spanscape]

Thought I'd give the new Diplomod a try, and I first got these path errors:

CRAG_govern.txt not found in asset tree.

To get past this, I pointed CRAT_gamefile.txt to CRA_govern.txt

Then, I received:

CRAG_buildings.txt not found in asset tree.

Got past this by pointing CRAT_gamefile.txt to CRA_buildings.txt


At long last I end up with some SLIC errors:

CRAT_NewDiplomod.slc:6637:M_TestBeginTurnAgreement s not found in string database.

CRAT_NewDiplomod.slc:6658:NDM_sender_science_resul tM not found in string database.

Couldn't find these anywhere - I figured they'd be in CRAT_NewDiplomod_str.txt?

Nice job though from what I see, damn near 7000 lines of SLIC in that one SLC file.

[hexagonian]

Spanscape,

I accidently picked up an old gamefile.txt file from my work computer and used the old file names that were in that file. Your fix is the way to fix this, but I am also attaching a new zip file below that corrects this problem, for anyone who wants the correct version.

I got the same SLIC error messages too - this will have to be addressed by Peter, but I am sure he will be keeping an eye on this thread for comments about his work.

One thing I did note, the game can be relaunched from the desktop after the crashes and played - at least I tried it for a few turns.


(Slightly) Fixed Beta file below...

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by Locutus
Woohoo! (we need a : party : smily)

Yes. Yes we do










6600 lines of SLIC, that is one immense script Peter, truly congratulations and thankyou for that huge undertaking.

[Peter Triggs]

Thanks, Spanscape and sorry about that. Looks like when I cleaned out the junkstrings from CRAT_NewDiplomod_str.txt, I left a couple of junk messages in the SLIC file. I've attached an ammended version with the messages removed.

A couple of points:

If you think that the AI civ's are not building enough units at the start of the game, go to CRAT_gamefile.txt and change CRAT_buildlistsequences.txt to CRA_buildlistsequences.txt; this will restore the original Cradle data.

As I mentioned in my e-mail to Dave, it's hard to see what FrenzyAI is doing but it must be doing something. To re-instate it, go to CRAT_script.slc and at the very bottom of the file remove the two forward slashes so that //#include "CRA_frenzy.slc" becomes #include "CRA_frenzy.slc"

I'm having another look at this code at the moment.

[Spanscape]

On another note, perhaps someone can help me get to the bottom of the multiplayer crashing issues I'm seeing...

When I play multiplayer (myself and my girlfriend) versus 6 AIs, the game will crash whenever we conquer an AI civ. This crash occurs whenever the conqueror of the civ ends their turn and it starts to cycle through the AI turns.

The crash occurs on both MedModII and Cradle. It does *not* happen with the ApolytonMod.

The crash occured tonight playing stock Cradle 1.3 on a *small* map with 2 human + 6 AI civs *very early* in the game. I have attached my savegame _right_ after I conquered the civ and before I ended the turn.

Thanks for any insight... I'm digging through SLIC, but its a new world to me. =)

[Spanscape]

Ok, interesting discovery:

I tried to load up the game I attached earlier, after I had conquered the 1st civ, and it would not let me launch it in multiplayer mode. I could copy it over and launch it single player mode without a hitch.

So I played it again from an earlier save and saved it _right_ before I conquered that 1st civ. That save game loads up fine in both multiplayer and singleplayer mode.

It looks like something bizarre happens when a civ is conquered in MP -- maybe it realigns the list of civs and replaces the human player with an AI player or something?

Anyway, game is attached. You can load this one up in multiplayer mode with 1 person, conquer the obvious city and watch it crash...

[Locutus]

I think someone will need to start a new thread for debugging the new diplomod, but I don't have much time right now so I'll just throw in a few quick comments here (in addition to what Spanscape said):

- I get all sorts of messages every turn about the status of diplomatic relationships, etc. I think most people will only find these annoying. They're useful for testing but should be turned off in Cradle.

- The AI is *extremely* weak right now. I was at war with Carthage for ages but they only sent the occasional loose unit to attack; and when I finally got around to sending in a stack to attack them (I was very reluctant to do so because normally you need more than 1 stack to attack a city and I was involved in several wonder races so couldn't build many replacements), they turned out to have only 1-3 defenders in each city, I just walked over a 15-city empire in less than 30 turns...

On to the more relevant stuff:

- This is ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC!!! I LOVE IT But a lot of work is going to be needed to get it all finished.

- I got a message 'no tresspass treaty expires in three turns/has expired', when it was really peace treaty that was expiring.

- AIs are very eager to get embassies with me but there's not a chance in hell I'll ever get an embassy from them via diplomacy (ended up sending diplomats across the globe).

- After a diplomatic proposal is received from an AI, it is sometimes followed by some sort of messagebox which gives additional explanation. Very nice idea, but once the messagebox appears the game continues and soon the diplomacy screen disappears again, sometimes too early for me to have had a chance to continue. You should probably disable the EndTurn event when sending out messageboxes in diplomatic negotiations.

- I got messages like 'no tresspass expires in three turns/has expired' when the AI had a treaty with me but not the other way around, quite confusing. At the very least you ought to give a different message if the tresspass treaty is not a mutual one.

- At one point I noticed that I was all of a sudden at war with 2 new enemies (next to the 2 with whom I was already at war earlier) but I had never gotten any sort of warning about this. When I asked for Cease-Fire, the AIs gladly accepted; it looks like they weren't particularly happy with being at war with me... Bug?

- Science treaties which are supposed to last forever in reality don't do so.

Probably unrelated but 2 other possible bugs:

- The same city (not mine, fortunately) got struck by an earthquake *very* often, can't be a coincidence anymore

- Plagues did not seem to have any effect anymore. I didn't notice a decrease in pop at all.

[hexagonian]

Peter,

I ran a test last night with the new Diplomod setup. My test was run for about 150 turns. I basically hit endturn (I also built a diplomat, more on that later) and when in contact with another civ, I tried to do as much negotiation as possible. Here are some observations and opinions, but I know I was not able to try everything your code encompasses.

First off, this is an incredibly ambitious code. This may be one of those things that might need other SLIC creators to take a look at and make suggestions, mainly because of its sheer complexity.

You already know about the pre-game SLIC crashes. I had a crash at approximately turn 150 when I made a request to the AI to withdraw its units. At that point I stopped for the evening.

EMBASSIES
1. Instant Embassies are very nice and is a welcome addition from the standpoint of gameplay – however, after playing with it, I agree with your statement that it is too easy. There are a few ways this can be addressed
a. There should always be some sort of cost to establish an embassy, and actually the cost can be high (500-1500 gold). I like the fact that there were actually some counterproposals when setting up the embassy, but at the same time, there were instances where it was automatically accepted, no questions asked.
b. In combo with the above, I would suggest making the enable advance to be either Bureaucracy or Republic (in Cradle). This will make diplomats of some value, and will not hand the human player the store right off the back, and actually makes for a nicely-defined goal for the player in the game.
c. After a war with a civ, I attempted to establish an embassy again, which was quickly accepted. However, in checking with the diplomacy box, I did not have the embassy. Several attempts to re-establish the embassy resulted in the same thing – in fact on the second attempt, I got back the message that I already had an embassy up and running. Also, it probably is not a good thing to be able to so quickly establish an embassy after a war – (I know historically that is not the case though – but from a gameplay standpoint, might be more challenging). This is also where having a few diplomats around can be of some value too, because they wouldn’t be under that part of the code (or would they???)

TREATIES/TECH TRADE
1. The request for a specified time period for any treaty is VERY nice indeed.
2. Straight up Tech trading should always have a counterproposal of a request for Tech from the AI (This seemed to be the case). At the same time I would like to see that any Human/AI tech trading also come with a request from the AI for gold or maps at the same time (if possible) – in essence making the AI the one who always benefits more from the dealings. (It doesn’t have to a huge amount of gold either). And at the same time, the AI should turn down requests for tech most of the time (80-90%). (I did get turned down with the test run too.)
3. You are right, the Science pact is too powerful. I was flying through the tech tree. As a player, I feel that tech is probably the most important aspect of the game, and I do not want it to come so cheaply to me. In fact, I would like to see the science pact disabled, because it becomes a feature that a player can exploit. (I had a multiple AI Science pact going at the same time too). From playing PBEM, Science Pacting was a necessity, but this was against other human players who all would do it. The only way to give the AI a chance in this setup is to make sure that it is doing it with the other AI players too. This ends up accelerating tech progression too fast and IMO, ruins the flow of the game. (You have no time to build what an advance gives you because you are already at the next level)

OTHER
1. One thing that became clear to me is that a peaceful AI is a militarily weak AI, and can easily be exploited. Dale’s Diplomod (3.5) that is in Cradle inadvertently does a good thing in locking the AI in a warmongor state, because all the AI players have a huge military. Couple this with the recent TileImprovement code, and the AI does have a fairly good support system. Plus, I have noted that although it is in a warmonger state in Cradle, the AI will build City Improvements. (though there is always room for improvement)

This may be the reason why you did not see the stacks roaming around in your games either – because there weren’t a lot of units. I went into the other AI queue list and they were all building city improvements, and all had small militaries. Granted, this was only for approximately 150 turns, (before the crash). A possible fix may be to go into the BuildingBuild list and rearrange the priorities, bumping up unit production near the top of the lists. (BTW, I ran the test with my old BuildingBuild list, which doesn’t have the added layer of BUILDINGS_START)

2. Is there any way to monitor AI/AI relationships (are they tech trading, for example)

As Locutus said, this does have tremendous potential...

[Shadow]

Howdy...

Just wondering how I'd go about altering the passage of time in CTP II???

I realise you've (Hex) slowed the earlier periods down, but unlike what seems to be most of you I kinda dislike this era in a lot of regards, and much prefer sending cruise missiles around, having nuclear-subs waiting offshore, and getting things like force-fields over my cities...

Now while CRADLE is a GREAT step forward, I just wish I could advance the game quicker. Is there a way I can do it without hours of fuss from you guys that know what you're doing?
Are there any somewhat simple fixes that I could apply myself???

A beer to whoever can help me... [grin]

Cheers,
Shadow

[Spanscape]

Hmmm... so I continue to discover that in a multiplayer game using either the Cradle 1.3 or Medieval II mods, whenever any human play conquers an AI player, the host will crash to the desktop.

I've even tried commenting out most of what I figure is the bulk of the SLIC in these two mods to no avail.

Yet, playing Apolyton's mod, we can conquer the AIs to our heart's content.

I don't suppose someone can grab the savegame I attached earlier and confirm it's not just my computers? It's up a few messages. Note: loading it in 'single player mode', it won't crash. But you can load it on a single computer in 'multiplayer mode' and take the city with 8 units outside of it over, and it should crash the second your turn ends.

Thanks, I appreciate anyone's help, as the AI in these 2 mods is vastly more challenging that Apolyton's.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Spanscape
mmm... so I continue to discover that in a multiplayer game using either the Cradle 1.3 or Medieval II mods, whenever any human play conquers an AI player, the host will crash to the desktop.

Does the crash happen in GoodMod?

-Martin

[Immortal Wombat]

I think that the only code firing on the capture city event, which is in both Cradle and MedMod, but not the Apolyton Pack, is the militia triggers.

[hexagonian]

Shadow,

There are a couple of ways to go about this. You can go into the various CRA..._Const.txt files and look for the following line of code

BASE_WAGES 5.0 # gold per person when slider is zero (was 4)

and change it to

BASE_WAGES 4.0 # gold per person when slider is zero (was 4)

This will reduce the gold you pay out for wages, leaving more for science. Probably the easiest way to fix this - and I believe you can go down to 3.0

The second thing you can do (also in conjunction with the first) is to go into CRA_Advance.txt and reduce the cost of all the advances you want to be researched quicker.

20 minutes and a calculator should do the trick.

Spanscape,
I don't know if I can help you on this matter, having never even attempted to do multiplay in any computer game. But, as it has been pointed out by Martin and Ben, the problem might stem from the SLIC coding that is in Cradle/MedMod. Both of these mods use a great deal of coding not found in the Apolyton Pack.

There is a city improvement destruction code that fires when a city is attacked, but that is also part of the Apolyton Pack (I believe Dale made that code).

[Leonidas]

Regarding Crashes: I have a standard computer: PII 350, 128 MB RAM, Voodoo3 2000 Video card.

I play with huge maps and min 10 civs, and after playing ALL the mods I have never had a crash. So the mods are stable.

I never save over a previous game, but save each game separately.

Current game: Cradle v1.3 beta; year 553 AD

After a furious start -- wars raging between me (Carthaginians) and the Nubians, things seemed to settle down to a tolerated peace (we were still at war, but there was no fighting). So after several hundred years, I was lulled into a false sense of security. I stopped building military units and concentrated on infrastructure.

Well, just when I thought the AI had taken a header off the bell tower, it pulled several surprising moves:

1) Both the Celts and the Nubians asked me to sign a peace treaty, which I refused. I did before but they used the peace treaty to attack me without warning.

2) So the Celts surprise-attacked me at sea, culminating in a major naval battle to rival that of Salamis. It was a major defeat for the Carthaginians (me).

3) Then the Nubians maneuvered 4-5 unts on my far left flank and attacked me. Seeing that this was my weak side, and since I didn't really know how many units the Nubians had in reserve, I moved several cavalry and foot units to defeat these enemy units and guard this flank.

4) No sooner had I done this, when the Nubians appeared on my far right flank with two 12-unit armies made up of their finest units including Praetorians, legions, horsemen, catapults, etc. They maneuvered both armies to cut off my largest city from receiving reinforcements, and to prevent any unit from escaping.

To make a long story short, over the next 5 turns I was on the edge of my seat fighting, maneuvering my units, and rush building military units.

5) Needless to say, I didn't lose my city, but the bloodbath was horrendous: in total over the course of about 6 or 7 turns, about 70 units were lost on both sides. When the dust cleared all I had left were a few weak units guarding my frontier!

Well done. I thought the AI had given up initially. But now I know I've got to show it more respect and be prepared for anything.

I'm looking forward to this game. . .

[Dale]

Originally posted by hexagonian
I don't know if I can help you on this matter, having never even attempted to do multiplay in any computer game. But, as it has been pointed out by Martin and Ben, the problem might stem from the SLIC coding that is in Cradle/MedMod. Both of these mods use a great deal of coding not found in the Apolyton Pack.

There is a city improvement destruction code that fires when a city is attacked, but that is also part of the Apolyton Pack (I believe Dale made that code).

Apolyton Pack uses quite a large chunk of text files from the original Cradle settings, and fills in the gaps with the text files with Med Pack II files.

As for SLIC, the only scripts running are bug-fixes and enhancements. All my scripts are in it, including the city-capture code, airunit code, diplomod 3.6 code and withdraw.

[Spanscape]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
I think that the only code firing on the capture city event, which is in both Cradle and MedMod, but not the Apolyton Pack, is the militia triggers.

Hmm.... I'm looking for code in the SLC files to comment out and see if I can at least isolate the problem and disable it by creating a version of Cradle for multiplay.

I don't think its SLIC getting called by the CaptureCity event, given that the crash doesn't actually occur until I end my turn. I can destroy the civ completely by taking its last city, and then do hundreds of actions before ending my turn. It's precisely upon ending my turn, and it getting to just start another human player's turn that it crashes to desktop.

Which means I'm thinking it has to be a BeginTurn event that cycles through all the players and is unhappy when it finds a dead AI amidst 'em.

[Agusta]

Originally posted by hexagonian
Has anyone tried any of the new Victory options? I'm wondering how easy/hard they are.

Just a quick note to let you know I have started a new game using the 1000 turn SETI Colony option. I must say I am very impressed so far. Of course 200+ turns into the game I am last on the chart but listed as 1st in the rankings ( I know I’m last so not sure where that is coming from). I love the option to add the captured city to the empire or pillage and destroy. So often my Gov. will not support another city but I need to keep eliminating the others cities before the regroup. The frenzy AI mode does work. All was well at first until I started taking over the first civ. Before the take over was complete they were coming at me from all sides with stacks of 10 – 12 units. It took me over 70 units , some gold in peace treaties and some good old fashioned diplomacy to get through that round. All as settled down now and I am amassing a huge army on the boarders before I do that again. Hats off so far. This is 10000% more realistic. I also noticed “Assassinate ruler” but nothing in the lib. Been afraid to try it until I know how it works.

Chuck

It’s been along time since I played a game for 20 hours straight. I installed the beta Friday night and did not stop until the wife made me go to bed Sat night at 9pm. I only stopped long enough to eat and well you know :>

[stankarp]

Leonidas,

Rule No 1- Never trust the AI

Rule no 2- refer to rule no 1

[Immortal Wombat]

spanscape, have you write-protected userprofile.txt?

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by stankarp
Leonidas,

Rule No 1- Never trust the AI

Rule no 2- refer to rule no 1

stankarp: Wise words to live by

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Agusta
Just a quick note to let you know I have started a new game using the 1000 turn SETI Colony option. I must say I am very impressed so far. Of course 200+ turns into the game I am last on the chart but listed as 1st in the rankings ( I know I?m last so not sure where that is coming from).

The game will list the civ names in order of turn (I believe). Where your line is in relation to the other civs on the Power graph is the important info.

Have you played civ3 and how does Cradle measure up???

Glad to hear that we here in the Mod community can bring back those marathon sessions.