View Poll Results: A new contest?
Sure, why not 38 86.36%
Nah, boring 2 4.55%
Big question. Thok head hurt 4 9.09%
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Old March 23, 2002, 15:32   #121
Henrik
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Quote:
Originally posted by broman
Another big difference between MP en PBEM scenarios in my eyes is the use of diplomacy. This is much more limited in PBEM games.
Should the scenario concerning diplomacy be designed for PBEM or for MP, which creates more oppertunities and is more fun in my opinion. For instance allied sides are variabele, technology is transferable and 'real' negotiations are possible instead of negotiating with the AI.
Actually I'd say its the total oposite.
Diplomacy is much more advanced in PBEMs than it is in normal games and normal MP as well.
Look at the AOW game (the original one) while only about 1/3 of the diplomacy is visible in the thread it should be evident that diplomacy is a very powerfull tool.

You can place tolls on rivers, passages, straits.
You can guarantee the security of minor nations (be this a barbarian state or a real civ).
You can have rights of passage treaties, issue loans, have peace treaties that actually work like real life peace treaties (that is, territory and money changes hands in exchange for the peace), etc.
Really the only limiting thing there is is the imagination of the humans involved, the humans signs treaties, then these treaties are conducted with the AI, or when the situation demands it, both players get online and conduct the diplomacy that way.
In some pbems I've been in we have even created text documents for treaties, with clauses and all (one of them is attached bellow).
This kind of thing does not happen when you are playing online MP (due to lack of time).

In addition the psycological aspects are a lot more important in pbems.
Blockades, bomb runs, raids, etc have a much more significant impact when you have no idea of the other players forces...

Quote:
Finally I have a question concerning the design of a scenario in general. What kind of items can't be adjusted anymore when you actually start building cities, units ect. The reason for this question is that I started building, but then discovered that I couldn't change countries names, flag colors etc . So that I don't run into the same problem again,
If you edit the civ names with the cheat menu the editors will aknolwedge the changes.


EDIT: replaced attachement with a better example.
Attached Files:
File Type: txt treaty.txt (2.6 KB, 7 views)
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Old March 24, 2002, 09:53   #122
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Quote:
Originally posted by WarVoid
Merc - You da man! I need all the maps I can get my hands on! Especially yours! Mainly Caribbean, Atlantic, North America, Europe and Africa.

Also, i'm looking for a map of England with Iceland and Denmark/Scandinavia also in it. Know where I can get one?
Well, I found 22 decent maps, but they're all a bit small. If you want anything more , let me know.
I didn't find any England/Iceland/Denmark maps.
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File Type: zip sdc_maps.zip (217.1 KB, 8 views)
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Old March 24, 2002, 11:54   #123
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What is the final ruling on team submissions?
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Old March 24, 2002, 18:32   #124
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I posted the ruling on team submissions already, Hodad.

3 ppl per team.

Thanks for the maps, Mercator! I appreciate the help.
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Old March 25, 2002, 04:59   #125
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Where do we apply for our code names?
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Old March 25, 2002, 05:36   #126
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Yeah, I want a code name now
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Old March 25, 2002, 11:16   #127
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Those who are *really* going to participate can e-mail WV to get their code names.

The contestants may, if they wish so, create a login utilizing their code name to discuss/comment/exchange info/whatever, with the explicit understanding that:

a) these logins will only be used in this forum
b) they will only be used in discussions related to the contest
c) once the contest is over these logins will be deleted

Just in case someone goes berserk and does something stupid with these logins, please remember that WV will know who you guys really are.

Thank you gentleman.

Last edited by Jay Bee; March 26, 2002 at 09:11.
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Old March 25, 2002, 11:19   #128
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Does that mean WV is not going to be a judge?
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Old March 25, 2002, 11:22   #129
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WV is the chief of judges. I am just a member of the jury. I do not have his e-mail handy, that's why I did not write it out up there. You can PM him as well if that's easier.
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Old March 25, 2002, 22:37   #130
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Is it really that hard to send me an e-mail asking for a code name? Nah, didn't think so?

warvoid@aol.com

Just drop me an e-mail and i'll send you a code. Do NOT give it to anyone else unless you're working on a team, and only then to your team members.
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Old March 25, 2002, 23:07   #131
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Seriously, how are the code names to be handled? Who gives them out and who knows and doesn't know to whom they refer? I think this is an important point. Code names aren't just for fun, they have a real purpose, namely to provide objectivity in the judging.
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Old March 26, 2002, 00:01   #132
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As pointed out earlier, the point of having codenames is so the judges do not know who the contestants are. If the judges are issuing the codenames, there is no difference from using our known names.

(actually this is a moot point, some of the more experienced guys might be able to tell that a scenario was created by me just by playing it)
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Old March 26, 2002, 00:09   #133
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Kobayashi,

Re. "some of the more experienced guys might be able to tell that a scenario was created by me just by playing it"

You might be surprised how difficult it is to pick the author on the basis of the scenario alone unless you have a very obvious 'singature' to your games. Techumseh was quite surprised as I recall with the authors of the SDC#3 submissions when the names were finally revealed.
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Old March 26, 2002, 02:09   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cam
Kobayashi,

Re. "some of the more experienced guys might be able to tell that a scenario was created by me just by playing it"

You might be surprised how difficult it is to pick the author on the basis of the scenario alone unless you have a very obvious 'singature' to your games. Techumseh was quite surprised as I recall with the authors of the SDC#3 submissions when the names were finally revealed.
Actually, picking out Kobayashi's will be pretty easy. It'll be the only "Age of Sail" scenario with Klingon boarding parties!
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Old March 26, 2002, 05:08   #135
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The point of the code names is not that the judges do not know who the contestants are; the point is that nobody else knows who the contestants are. The scenarios will be posted somewhere and will be discussed on these boards. For that to be done properly, real identities should be hidden. As to the judges... come on, do you think I would be influenced by the author's identity? If there was a cash prize or something, that would be understandable. If not, even the suspect seems a bit out of place. In any event, you can always apply with a pseudonym as I did for the first SDC. Just open an email account in Hotamil and Yahoo and e-mail us from there.
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Old March 26, 2002, 11:17   #136
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Bee
The point of the code names is not that the judges do not know who the contestants are; the point is that nobody else knows who the contestants are. The scenarios will be posted somewhere and will be discussed on these boards. For that to be done properly, real identities should be hidden. As to the judges... come on, do you think I would be influenced by the author's identity? If there was a cash prize or something, that would be understandable. If not, even the suspect seems a bit out of place. In any event, you can always apply with a pseudonym as I did for the first SDC. Just open an email account in Hotamil and Yahoo and e-mail us from there.
I'm sorry, but I don't agree. At least in SDC#2, in which I was a participant, and SDC#3, in which I was the judge, the judges DID NOT know the names of the participants. In the end it really doesn't matter if other contestants know who is who, but blind judging is very important to ensure fairness. People will invest thousands of hours in this contest; they need to know that there will be objective evaluation. No one is free from bias at some level, not even you JB.

Do you need a contest administrator? Someone to receive the files, issue code names and transmit the files to the judges without names attached? If you think a participant in the contest can do both, I'll volunteer. In the last contest, Cam was the administrator and a contestant.
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Old March 26, 2002, 12:12   #137
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Last edited by Jay Bee; March 26, 2002 at 12:37.
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Old March 26, 2002, 20:27   #138
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Currently, i'm the contest admin. As it stands, techumseh's outline was the plan I was originally going to follow. It can be followed now, as neither of our two judges know the names of the currently registered entrants.

techumseh, if you want to be another judge, that'd be good too. When it comes down to judging your scen, i'll take your place and judge it myself.

How's that sound?
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Old March 27, 2002, 02:32   #139
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Thanks for the offer WV, but I've had a turn already. I'm willing to help in another capacity if I can. Kull was the winner of the FW contest last time, and William Keenan was runner up in ToT. Perhaps they might be asked if you need additional judges.
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Old March 27, 2002, 11:13   #140
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Prepare to eat my dust fellow scenario creators!

Last edited by DarthVeda; March 27, 2002 at 11:23.
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Old March 27, 2002, 14:45   #141
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I'm considering entering, but is there anyone in the judging panel I can pitch my scenario idea to first to see if it acceptable? There will be very little naval warfare involved in it, so I'm wondering if this would make it uneligible.
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Old March 27, 2002, 17:53   #142
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Quote:
Originally posted by DarthVeda
Prepare to eat my dust fellow scenario creators!
DV, you poor deluded fool
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Old March 27, 2002, 18:10   #143
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Quote:
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DV, you poor deluded fool
Indeed
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Old March 28, 2002, 00:18   #144
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Quote:
Originally posted by our_man
I'm considering entering, but is there anyone in the judging panel I can pitch my scenario idea to first to see if it acceptable? There will be very little naval warfare involved in it, so I'm wondering if this would make it uneligible.
I not a judge but it stands to reason that if the theme is Age of Sail, the naval part must be substantial. If not, the theme would just be 1500-1800 A.D.
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Old March 28, 2002, 00:30   #145
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cam

You might be surprised how difficult it is to pick the author on the basis of the scenario alone unless you have a very obvious 'singature' to your games. Techumseh was quite surprised as I recall with the authors of the SDC#3 submissions when the names were finally revealed.
I'm brought this up because I need to know if I should bother to 'disguise' my (and WillemO) entry. There are many other traits other than Klingons - the format of the readme.txt, my standard three races/four tech tree branches format, corny (yet tasteful) event messages ...etc.
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Old March 28, 2002, 00:37   #146
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi
corny (yet tasteful) event messages
"We are the French, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile, ..."
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Old March 28, 2002, 01:34   #147
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cam


"We are the French, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile, ..."
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Old March 28, 2002, 14:26   #148
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I think it should be clarified by the judges, kob. By Age of Sail, do they mean "in the age of sail" (this just covers 1500-1800), or is the center of the scenario supposed to be naval combat?
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Old March 28, 2002, 18:56   #149
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I remembered seeing this on page 2 of this thread.

Quote:
Originally posted by WarVoid
Goingonit - The Age of Sail can be simulated in Civ2 very easily. We've seen it done with some of Case's and Gothmog's naval scenarios. But the focus of the scenario should not be entirely on naval combat. Rather, it should be a combination of land and naval warfare. For instance,
in the 1630's, the Pirates of Tortuga and the Bahamas, collectively known as the Brethren of the Coast, attempted to gain a land empire in the Moskito Coast (modern Nicaragua), but were foiled by British and Spanish forces. That's a perfect example of combining both the naval and land aspects of the theme.
I assume this to mean that naval warfare doesn't have to be the focus at all, although a reasonable amount of sailing should be involved.
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Old March 28, 2002, 20:11   #150
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Quote:
Originally posted by winterfritz
I assume this to mean that naval warfare doesn't have to be the focus at all, although a reasonable amount of sailing should be involved.
What i'm saying here is that the scenario will be judged for the COMBINATION of both land and naval warfare, as it truly was a test of both during the Age of Sail. But this is not the only thing the scenarios will be judged by.

They'll be judged by quality, originality, accuracy, dependability (i.e. no bugs) and play/replayability.

The actual subject of the scenario can be anything within the range, either partial or whole, of the years 1500 thru 1800. Whether you choose to utilise this entire period or focus on a single set of battles is entirely up to the author. As I said above, the scenario will be judged moreover by it's workings rather than it's subject.

A scenario is nothing if it has no value to the people that play them.
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