Zylka’s 95 theses on why Civilization 3 is an utter dissapointment

[Zylka]

Or 65 theses, whichever comes first

It has become painfully apparent that, in frustration, the bulk of the logical critics of Civ 3 have left these newbie-infested forums unscathed for quite some time. Optimists may not rejoice, for we will be back to crush your collective head in like a melon subject to a baseball bat - when that wonderful time that multi-player is released comes about. Yet with the temporary absence of our genius, will Firaxis uphold its tainted reputation in screwing up the mp release, as well? Not if we can reiterate long held dissapointment. The following 65 thesis of protest to firaxis are the result of 6 months of sh*ty gaming for all true Civ fans. No shortcoming or broken promise will be withheld, or forgiven, in our quest to dissolve the rampant corruption (pun intended), which plagues the once classic Civilization Series:

Software/Packaging

1 - The pathetically packaged “collectors edition” tin which sums up your entire operation. Anyone end up getting those designer notes? Anyone’s tech “poster” end up enlarging itself into an actual poster, or aligning its print to the paper? I do hope those biscuit tins are large enough to hold your customer's shattered expectations.
2 - Bugs upon release. I won't specify the overly horrendous and inexcusable variety of the aforementioned, otherwise it would be Zylka’s 1,425 theses on why your programmers suck.
3 - Lack of multi-player upon release. Anyone in their right mind would have waited an extra few months for it to be included, but that doesn’t work with planned obsolescence, now does it?
4 - Lack of Scenarios. One of the many steps backwards in regards to civ2.
5 - “Maps” included. Seriously, those shouldn’t have taken more than 20 minutes to make, so you’re either lazy, or incompetent. I vouch for the former with a touch of the latter.
6 - Lack of editor upon release. Current editor is a sad consolation worthy of a swift kick to the gonads.
7 - Lack of windows format, or anything close to not being a pain in the as* for minimizing. Alt + tab makes for an incredibly messy scheme, often crashes the program, and does not work without another program already running.
8 - Patches. Not enough changes, not fast enough. Quite amusing how over half of the listed “changes” for each patch have consisted of fixing typos. Care to borrow my ms-word spell check, next time?
9 - Speed. Why is it so slow, even on a hotrod of a computer? Was an incredibly dated processing engine used for this game?


Graphics

10 - The water is jade, the mountains are red. What (other than reality) inspired you to choose such an unrealistic terrain palette? And no, fixes by the mod community don’t count in saving your collective as* (thank you, Sn00py).
11 - Mountains are way too obtrusive on the land’s layout. It does not look good, quite irritating in fact. Perhaps you should have made them even more unrealistically gigantic and thornlike, I don’t think the common idiot can decipher them as mountains, yet.
12 - Civ score caveman "animation". I won't even attempt to vent my frustration on the fact that an already flawed game had some of it's production diverted to that pile of sh*t.
13 - The 3-D advisors and Leaders are so lame. Again, I would rather you had just used static pictures, with the saved amount of work put towards the intrinsic side of the game. Then again, (neo)classical portraits of leaders don’t sell as well as goofy looking 3-D animations.
14 - Joan de Arc’s cleavage really sexed up civ. No really, you sexed it right up and into a filthy wh0re of half-wit humor.
15 - Modern resources look horrific. The sight of a tire for rubber, a neon-green slab for uranium, and a garbage can for aluminum literally makes the modern map look like a garbage dump.
16 - Firing of nuclear missiles was done in such a lame manner, it makes red alert look professional in comparison. OOH BOY LOOK DAR SCREEN IS SHAKING BOOM I R USE EXPLOSIFFS!
17 - The “loser” screen. Stupid, not at all well done, tacky.
18 - More shots of the “Evolution” Tower of Babel, please. That’s what we paid for, right?
19 - Why do all naval units have such a melodramatic firing animation? Battleships don’t violently rock back and forth with active turrets, they do weigh a good 50, 000 tons, after all. This may seem petty, but it’s yet another piece of crap decision to make the game a little more radical/explosive oriented exciting for the market’s idiots.
20 - Civ colors. Saints preserve us, an Easter-egg was not a good source for influence. Looks silly, mmmk?
21 - Cities need a subtle, blending grid outwards. Current form looks like a clumsily dense mass of buildings sticking up out of nowhere, more of an outpost than anything.

Gameplay

22 - Corruption. It's not, nor has it ever been realistic. It was a pathetically obvious overlay fix for an unexpectedly high timeline speed. Next time, hire logistics programmers before you make such crucial decisions.
23 - Culture, and city reversions. Nice try implementing the abstract of immigration/emigration, it was done horribly. Whole cities do not leave and join empires, “individual” populations (by that I mean 1 city size) should have been the integer. Even a choice route bank specifying to what city(s) immigrant populations should add on would have worked better. Of course, the emigration would have worked on a non-choice level, deriving from cultural formulas according from city to city. See? Even I would have made a better logistics advisor than whoever you had. Problem is, I don’t associate with two-bit operations. No wait, my solutions are too difficult for a drooling moron to comprehend – that wouldn’t work for marketability!
24 - AI cheats. However, it does its job just fine – and anything short of a human must cheat to be challenging. The issue here is admitting it cheats, against what was previously implied, and the programmer’s ego.
25 - AI exploit issues. Tends to militarily expand in odd pocket-spaces past their periphery territories, often leaving huge power vacuum areas which are easy to pick off repeatedly throughout the game.
26 - Trade was a half noble/ half cowardly streamlining change. Smart people want more options and more manual control, that includes setting up individual routes from city to city, be it moving the caravan itself. A combination of the two would have been nice, but that would’ve taken more than an hour lunch break to come up with.
27 - Domestic nag. Kill, murder, destroy, gone.
28 - War weariness. Why is it that a celebrating democracy crumbles on the exact turn that some sh*t island nation half way across the globe declares war on it? I fully realize that you were bent on making warfare near useless in this game, but this is just absolutely unacceptable. Closer to real life next time, is that yet clear?
29 - Limited terra-forming is needed.
30 - ICS has become even more a horrible necessity than it was in civ2. REX compounds the problem. Players used to work like hell to secure that perfect setting for a city; a river running through it, a nice patch of grassland, rich resources within hinterland radius… now it just doesn’t matter. Filling up every piece of the map is an immediate necessity, and it doesn’t matter where you choose to settle. Huge mistake.
31 - Ships which should, do not have even minor AA abilities.
32 - Resources. Oh goody, my civ has a near infinite cluster of gems. The concept of strategic resources was a noble one, but poorly executed. No civilization should have the need (due to shortage of) a resource as widely available as aluminum. Horses as a strategic resource - seriously? Oil is understandable, yet this kind of limiting factor will wreak havoc on multi-player. You must add an option which turns strategic limitations off. Back to the basics, to give multi-playing equality of opportunity.
33 - Lack of unit obsolescence. This ties in to dependence on strategic resources, and should be dealt with accordingly for multiplayer
34 - Modern ships do not take 20 years to trek the globe, in parallel with soldiers who can travel a continent via rail instantly (realistic given the time frame). Modern naval units really should have been given a one move infinite range, followed by a 2 or 3 single square allowance, and the standard 1 attack move. I’m pretty much talking about giving modern ships a chess queen’s move, followed by the specifics necessary for combat.
35 - 89 technologies in civ2. 82 technologies in civ3. An increase was widely expected, but a decrease is just as good! Did the other 7 techs run off to join Snow White?
36 - Submarines are useless.
37 - Wonders are handed out on a near random basis, with great leaders and lack of ability to rush production. The only plus being that caravans were taken away in wonder production.
38 - Bombers are useless.
39 - Bombers can land on aircraft carriers. Next time you’re landing 50+ meters of wingspan on a quarter mile deck meant to hold fighters, tell me so that I might take a picture.
40 - Nuclear warfare was completely botched. An immediate counter launch chance upon initial launch system
should have been adopted, but that would have made things more realistic, right?
41 - Spying was completely botched. What suggestions would you like, seeing as how it’s irreparably screwed up?
42 - The tech tree. Simplified, and dumbed down with almost no real choice of direction. I’m beginning to wonder if the repeatedly aforementioned market range is that of the 8-12 year old developmentally disabled.
43 - Civ specific units. Yet another attempt to push this game over the not so fine line between classy and red-alert tacky. You’re lucky we can disable them.
44 - Privateers are useless.
45 - There are less governments than civ2. Unacceptable. It should have been expanded with the likes of democratic socialism, fascism, totalitarianism, whatever. Fundamentalism could have easily been dealt with to make for a more realistic model.
46 - Barbarians are absolute pushovers.
47 - All your base are belong to us? You say you want a revolution? How about grow the f*ck up. Lame cult classic sayings have absolutely no place in the game we were expecting.
48 - Armies are useless, especially in the modern era. Who in their right mind would give up a wonder for a useless army?
49 - Whoever decided that cruise missiles should have a range of 2 squares should receive an on-the-spot **** punching. A fitting follow up would be Jimmytrick’s suggestion to put them on a mental disability leave as soon as possible.
50 - Colonies are useless.
51 - Whoever decided that howitzer type artillery has a 2 square firing range deserves a swift elbow to the sternum. 155 mm canons are not capable of lobbing shells 200 mile distances. It is so bloody easy to exploit this, in rendering armored warfare near ineffective.
52 - The Iron Works is: A – rarely possible B – Useless, for the amount needed to build it.
53 - UN based victory??? Do I even need to pick on that one? Just who thought it up – seriously, which member of the team was it? Again, you’re lucky we can opt out. See a pattern here? Good players want more options.
54 - Helicopters are useless.
55 - Unit hit points & firepower were brought back to a halfway point between civ 1 and 2. They should have logically been brought to a higher level than civ2; further specified so more accurate ratios could have been assigned according to unit type. Then the whole “my tank lost to a fehking spearman” complaint would have been less frequent, if not absent.
56 - Units can not use enemy roads. It’s fine enough that you can’t use enemy railroads, but roads??? Again, you’d like to render warfare in it’s entirety obsolete, I see. What’s the story here - are you a bunch of hippies, or what?
57 - A nuclear warhead halves a city’s population (point based) and infrastructure – whilst a warrior, a few hundred men with spears (or molotav cocktails, it’s irrelevant how you want to justify it), can destory EVERYTHING in an instant? Something is wrong here.
58 - Bombers can not sink ships
59 - Razing cities is a ridiculous option. It should only be an open choice to smaller cities, preferably 3 and under. A unit of a few thousand (or less) soldiers can not effectively murder and destroy an entire city of over a million people with them sitting idly by. It has not, does not, and will not happen - It’s just that simple.
60 - Bombers can not target specific improvements.
61 - Even less civs than number 2: too few to pick from. Redundant streamlining.
62 - “Random number generator” has been proven time and again to be completely out of whack.
63 - AI trades very poorly
64 – I want the 90 minutes of my life which I spent writing this back.
65 - You have sold your souls to a ship of fools.

Now before all rhetoric is lost in telling the critics to go away and stop playing the game, do remember that the majority of us do believe civ3 is an overall improvement on civ2. Take, for examples, a few of my own pros hinting to why:

I applaud the improvements made to the AI.
I applaud the higher number of units.
I applaud the increase in number of AI at a time.
I applaud the implementation of borders.
I applaud the removal of bribing.
I applaud (some) of the graphic improvements.
I applaud the addition of stacked units upon popular demand.
I applaud the recent changes to cultural reversion upon popular demand.

Yet in light of the much larger opposing list, this is not enough. This game is civ2, sprinkled liberally with stupid, in a 3-d vein. At current stance, drastic change is needed.

Just as you have heard my thoughts, you have heard critical solutions from many of the brilliant minds at Apolyton. Keep in mind that these vivid theses, which I have now nailed to your door, are in no way a complete list of common complaints. Take, for example, the doctrines of Cal-Yin-ism – if you need more convincing of the universal disappointment. I am not doing this because I am angry, nor am I doing it because I have too much time on my hands [well, for the most part ]. I am doing this for much needed change, and as fair warning. Single player is so easy, so overly streamlined, and so mediocre for replay value, that I have no want or need to continue playing. The only attractive reason to have hope in civ3 is the thrill of playing another human being, and therein lies the theme in its entirety:

Listen up, Firaxis. You had better get multi-player right.

[hexagonian]

Geeze...

Only 65???

[Ironikinit]

I tried to read it, but I had more important things to do, like rotate my spark plugs.

BTW, if you don't like Civ 3 as it is, you won't like MP. It's the same game, you see.

[Zylka]

I can see how playing against a human mind is the same game as exploiting a pushover AI. Then again, you must fall in the 12 year old chest-thumpers range. Forget the spark plugs, and go empty your saliva dish, champ.

[Zouave]

Rock on! A flame war just beginning! Can I play, too?

[Ironikinit]

Well, since we're apparently free to flame each other here:

Your icon and quote are speaking to me... they say you're a virgin, and would die before approaching a beautiful woman, because you have a cowardly soul. Your theses speak as well... they say you're a whiner... more, they call you a fool. Six months of shitty gaming? Dumb****, nobody forced you to play. Didn't it occur to you to stop?

Now that the opening insults are out of the way, the game will be the same game against humans as it is against the AI... you know, the same AI that you praise and then later call a pushover. You talk out both sides of your mouth like that because you're a pussified punk-ass troll. All your petty triffling whines about the (aw... the mountains are too red! you poor baby!) game will still be there, and you'll still be a total ass.

Regards to your whore mother.

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Originally posted by Zylka
Or 65 theses, whichever comes first

Now before all rhetoric is lost in telling the critics to go away and stop playing the game, do remember that the majority of us do believe civ3 is an overall improvement on civ2. Take, for examples, a few of my own pros hinting to why:

I applaud the improvements made to the AI.
I applaud the higher number of units.
I applaud the increase in number of AI at a time.
I applaud the implementation of borders.
I applaud the removal of bribing.
I applaud (some) of the graphic improvements.
I applaud the addition of stacked units upon popular demand.
I applaud the recent changes to cultural reversion upon popular demand.

Yet in light of the much larger opposing list, this is not enough. This game is civ2, sprinkled liberally with stupid, in a 3-d vein. At current stance, drastic change is needed.

Just as you have heard my thoughts, you have heard critical solutions from many of the brilliant minds at Apolyton. Keep in mind that these vivid theses, which I have now nailed to your door, are in no way a complete list of common complaints. Take, for example, the doctrines of Cal-Yin-ism – if you need more convincing of the universal disappointment. I am not doing this because I am angry, nor am I doing it because I have too much time on my hands [well, for the most part ]. I am doing this for much needed change, and as fair warning. Single player is so easy, so overly streamlined, and so mediocre for replay value, that I have no want or need to continue playing. The only attractive reason to have hope in civ3 is the thrill of playing another human being, and therein lies the theme in its entirety:

Listen up, Firaxis. You had better get multi-player right.

This is an instant classic Zylka.

Congratulations to you!

FIRAXIS, WAKE UP!

IMPROVE THE GAMEPLAY!

All the tools have been suggested. Pick the most desirable, if not all. We definitely insist. I do.

Multiplayer:OK.

But improve the SINGLE PLAYER NOW!

We'll keep buying, but better hurry,

OR ELSE,

FAIR?
AJ

[Captain]

Originally posted by Zylka
3 - Lack of multi-player upon release. Anyone in their right mind would have waited an extra few months for it to be included, but that doesn’t work with planned obsolescence, now does it?
4 - Lack of Scenarios. One of the many steps backwards in regards to civ2.
5 - “Maps” included. Seriously, those shouldn’t have taken more than 20 minutes to make, so you’re either lazy, or incompetent. I vouch for the former with a touch of the latter.
6 - Lack of editor upon release. Current editor is a sad consolation worthy of a swift kick to the gonads.

Valid complaints, but look how well it worked out for them. We paid for beta! Our modders are doing a lot of the work. Dark Sheer & Co. are coming up with some great unit flic animations. Sn00py's got a wicked graphics mod coming soon. Firaxis got it all for free! Plus, they'll probably make more$ when we all rush out to buy MP and a better editor and scenarios.

Still, I'm ok with that. It almost to be expected from any company these days. Hell, it's just like the idea of built-in obsolescence so we pay for repairs. My complaints won't change their procedure, esp. when they've got our $ already. Besides, the modders make better scenarios than anything Friaxis could come up with.

8 - Patches. Not enough changes, not fast enough. Quite amusing how over half of the listed “changes” for each patch have consisted of fixing typos. Care to borrow my ms-word spell check, next time?

IMHO, patches have been decent. I'm glad they're still working on it. Can't expect perfection. closing one loophole usually opens another. But it'll get there.

9 - Speed. Why is it so slow, even on a hotrod of a computer? Was an incredibly dated processing engine used for this game?

Well, I totally agree with you here. It makes no sense for a game that seems to have simplistic mechanics to require such vast resources to run.

12 - Civ score caveman "animation". I won't even attempt to vent my frustration on the fact that an already flawed game had some of it's production diverted to that pile of sh*t.

I agree, very lame.

14 - Joan de Arc’s cleavage really sexed up civ. No really, you sexed it right up and into a filthy wh0re of half-wit humor.

Well, judging from some of the posts on this forum, Firaxis has found their prime market in the 15 year old boys demographic.

15 - Modern resources look horrific. The sight of a tire for rubber, a neon-green slab for uranium, and a garbage can for aluminum literally makes the modern map look like a garbage dump.
16 - Firing of nuclear missiles was done in such a lame manner, it makes red alert look professional in comparison. OOH BOY LOOK DAR SCREEN IS SHAKING BOOM I R USE EXPLOSIFFS!
17 - The “loser” screen. Stupid, not at all well done, tacky.
18 - More shots of the “Evolution” Tower of Babel, please. That’s what we paid for, right?
20 - Civ colors. Saints preserve us, an Easter-egg was not a good source for influence. Looks silly, mmmk?
21 - Cities need a subtle, blending grid outwards. Current form looks like a clumsily dense mass of buildings sticking up out of nowhere, more of an outpost than anything.

You put it so well!
that loser screen is really tacky. the accompanying word bubbles are really lame too.
As for terrain, modders should be congratulated for fixing lots of this. I now have a game that doesn't hurt my eyes (at least in the ancient age).


As for strategy and game mechanics, that's too much for me to respond to. Lots of things suck there, but my main beef is still unlimited movement on RRs. This must change!

[Zylka]

AJ - No. Not assertive enough, sound off like you've got a pair

[Zylka]

Captain - when is Sn00py's latest mod due, and what kind of change has he hinted at?

[Ironikinit]

*****.

[Zylka]

Very mature and well thought out response.

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Ironikinit
Well, since we're apparently free to flame each other here:

Your icon and quote are speaking to me... they say you're a virgin, and would die before approaching a beautiful woman, because you have a cowardly soul. Your theses speak as well... they say you're a whiner... more, they call you a fool. Six months of shitty gaming? Dumb****, nobody forced you to play. Didn't it occur to you to stop?

Now that the opening insults are out of the way, the game will be the same game against humans as it is against the AI... you know, the same AI that you praise and then later call a pushover. You talk out both sides of your mouth like that because you're a pussified punk-ass troll. All your petty triffling whines about the (aw... the mountains are too red! you poor baby!) game will still be there, and you'll still be a total ass.

Regards to your whore mother.

Oh my! I completely missed that one. You do realize you're my bltch now, correct? No fear though, friend. I don't accept high school drop-outs.

By the way, insults on family are a big no-no. Have fun in mingapulco, moron.

[Zouave]

Originally posted by Zylka



By the way, insults on family are a big no-no. Have fun in mingapulco, moron.

Hehe. I think he may have company.

[ColdWizard]

i disagree with #56, not being able to use of enemy roads/railroads makes combat more interesting than just seeing how many howies you can build

[Captain]

Originally posted by Zylka
Captain - when is Sn00py's latest mod due, and what kind of change has he hinted at?

Sorry, I'm not sure. I haven't heard anything in the last few days. some of us made a few extra requests (ie. flood plains and such)and he might be working on those before releasing the whole grfx package. Try PMing him.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by ColdWizard
i disagree with #56, not being able to use of enemy roads/railroads makes combat more interesting than just seeing how many howies you can build

There are more things i'd disagree with. Generally statements like "[insert unit here] are useless" highly depend on one's playstyle and can't be considered absolute true. Also, many issues about graphics depend on individual taste. Some issues apply to Civ2/CtP/CtP2 as well, for example, in CtP2 I also can launch Stealth Bombers from a carrier, and the railroad vs. ship movement thing applies to Civ2 as well. But there's a big part true in Zylkas post.

[Velociryx]

I....

::shakes head and sighs::

...have nothing to add, 'cept that it's a good post. Perhaps one day....nahhh. Nevermind.

-=Vel=-

[Spec]

Originally posted by Ironikit
[i]

Well, since we're apparently free to flame each other here:

Your icon and quote are speaking to me... they say you're a virgin, and would die before approaching a beautiful woman, because you have a cowardly soul. Your theses speak as well... they say you're a whiner... more, they call you a fool. Six months of shitty gaming? Dumb****, nobody forced you to play. Didn't it occur to you to stop?

Now that the opening insults are out of the way, the game will be the same game against humans as it is against the AI... you know, the same AI that you praise and then later call a pushover. You talk out both sides of your mouth like that because you're a pussified punk-ass troll. All your petty triffling whines about the (aw... the mountains are too red! you poor baby!) game will still be there, and you'll still be a total ass.

Regards to your whore mother.

First of all, you are the man!! ROFL

Second,

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]

1 - The pathetically packaged “collectors edition” tin which sums up your entire operation. Anyone end up getting those designer notes? Anyone’s tech “poster” end up enlarging itself into an actual poster, or aligning its print to the paper? I do hope those biscuit tins are large enough to hold your customer's shattered expectations.

Boohoo...

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]
6 - Lack of editor upon release. Current editor is a sad consolation worthy of a swift kick to the gonads.

I think it's cool, but you know, I dont look for reasons to whine so that may be why I dont agree with you.

Originally posted by Zylka
[i] 7 - Lack of windows format, or anything close to not being a pain in the as* for minimizing. Alt + tab makes for an incredibly messy scheme, often crashes the program, and does not work without another program already running.

Well, your PC sucks ass cuz it never happened to me or anyone I know. And did you ever tried Ctrl+Esc? You DO know it makes the task bar appear moron.

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]9 - Speed. Why is it so slow, even on a hotrod of a computer? Was an incredibly dated processing engine used for this game?

Try standar maps if you have no patience

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]10 - The water is jade, the mountains are red. What (other than reality) inspired you to choose such an unrealistic terrain palette?

Come on man, you are just LOOKING for reasons to diiss FIRAXIS, why dont you go tell your mom, maybe she'll give you cookies and make it all better.

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]14 - Joan de Arc’s cleavage really sexed up civ. No really, you sexed it right up and into a filthy wh0re of half-wit humor.

And what about your nice pic dumdass? You mean to tell me you're a whore too?....I can beleive that...just not with humans.

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]15 - Modern resources look horrific. The sight of a tire for rubber, a neon-green slab for uranium, and a garbage can for aluminum literally makes the modern map look like a garbage dump.

And again, whinning for no reason.....

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]16 - Firing of nuclear missiles was done in such a lame manner, it makes red alert look professional in comparison. OOH BOY LOOK DAR SCREEN IS SHAKING BOOM I R USE EXPLOSIFFS!

And again.....you really dont have much to do....

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]20 - Civ colors. Saints preserve us, an Easter-egg was not a good source for influence. Looks silly, mmmk?

Hey stupid, the colors were choosen to easely make the dif between civs. I'm glad we dont have light blue, sort of like light blue, blue, somewhat dark blue and dark blue.....

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]22 - Corruption. It's not, nor has it ever been realistic. It was a pathetically obvious overlay fix for an unexpectedly high timeline speed. Next time, hire logistics programmers before you make such crucial decisions.

You can change that in editor....oh....yea right....you said it was a lame ass editor, so I take it that you never tried it....moron.

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]24 - AI cheats. However, it does its job just fine – and anything short of a human must cheat to be challenging. The issue here is admitting it cheats, against what was previously implied, and the programmer’s ego.

What?!?!?!?

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]25 - AI exploit issues. Tends to militarily expand in odd pocket-spaces past their periphery territories, often leaving huge power vacuum areas which are easy to pick off repeatedly throughout the game.

And your problem is??

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]
30 - ICS has become even more a horrible necessity than it was in civ2. REX compounds the problem. Players used to work like hell to secure that perfect setting for a city; a river running through it, a nice patch of grassland, rich resources within hinterland radius… now it just doesn’t matter. Filling up every piece of the map is an immediate necessity, and it doesn’t matter where you choose to settle. Huge mistake.

You might be surprised but I agree all the way.

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]31 - Ships which should, do not have even minor AA abilities.

I agree also.

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]34 - Modern ships do not take 20 years to trek the globe, in parallel with soldiers who can travel a continent via rail instantly (realistic given the time frame). Modern naval units really should have been given a one move infinite range, followed by a 2 or 3 single square allowance, and the standard 1 attack move. I’m pretty much talking about giving modern ships a chess queen’s move, followed by the specifics necessary for combat.

Again, use the editor man, THE EDITOR!!!!

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]35 - 89 technologies in civ2. 82 technologies in civ3. An increase was widely expected, but a decrease is just as good! Did the other 7 techs run off to join Snow White?

I agree about more techs, but you just dissing for the fun of it. Did they join Snow White.....Ya, that MUST be it.

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]36 - Submarines are useless.

For you and me maybe but not for all

Originally posted by Zylka
[i]
I applaud the improvements made to the AI.
I applaud the higher number of units.
I applaud the increase in number of AI at a time.
I applaud the implementation of borders.
I applaud the removal of bribing.
I applaud (some) of the graphic improvements.
I applaud the addition of stacked units upon popular demand.
I applaud the recent changes to cultural reversion upon popular demand.

Wow man, you really made an effort here!

Originally posted by Zylka
[i] Just as you have heard my thoughts, you have heard critical solutions from many of the brilliant minds at Apolyton. Keep in mind that these vivid theses, which I have now nailed to your door, are in no way a complete list of common complaints. Take, for example, the doctrines of Cal-Yin-ism – if you need more convincing of the universal disappointment. I am not doing this because I am angry, nor am I doing it because I have too much time on my hands [well, for the most part ]. I am doing this for much needed change, and as fair warning. Single player is so easy, so overly streamlined, and so mediocre for replay value, that I have no want or need to continue playing. The only attractive reason to have hope in civ3 is the thrill of playing another human being, and therein lies the theme in its entirety:

Yea well, read your post again and tell me that's what you really think.

You surely know you wont get any positive response with a post like that. All you do is b|tch. I dont call that constructive criticism, I call that plain arrogance.

Dont expect any respect from guys like me when you write sh|t like that. You had some good points, I agree, but there's a better way of saying it.

Personnaly I think you got issues. You the kind of guy that'll comin in at McD's and shoot everyone cuz life mistreated you. Well let me tell you something, there's more to life than just Civ3, like beer, women, friends, etc.....I'd hate to see your face when you want to see the next episode of, let's say the X-files and you find out it's a re-run. Do you like bang your head against the wall? Nooooooooo. You must take it out on smaller ppl than you. Right? Yea you know I'm right.

Yours truly,

Spec.

[Ironikinit]

Originally posted by Zylka


Oh my! I completely missed that one. You do realize you're my bltch now, correct?

You missed it through being a stupid bastard. And I'm not scared of any ***** who's too stupid to:

A. Notice a response that's been right in front of him.

and/or

B. Figure out how to get around the language filter.

Since you're too stupid for either, you'll have to excuse me if I don't bother to cower in fear, *****. You'll also notice that I'm not exactly scared of getting banned, because your mother's still a whore.

I'm tired of being polite to rude little ****s such as yourself. Dunno if you noticed, but this isn't the "Let's ***** About Civ 3" forum, mother****er. This forum is for fans of the game, and you can't even back up your bullshit with logic, because it's all just bullshit, as anyone can plainly see.

To sum up:

You = worthless whiny *****.
Your mother = whore.
Me = not scared of the worthless whiny ***** spawn of a whore, nor worried about getting banned, or I wouldn't've flamed you in the first place, DUMBASS.

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Spectator

Personnaly I think you got issues. You the kind of guy that'll comin in at McD's and shoot everyone cuz life mistreated you. Well let me tell you something, there's more to life than just Civ3, like beer, women, friends, etc.....I'd hate to see your face when you want to see the next episode of, let's say the X-files and you find out it's a re-run. Do you like bang your head against the wall? Nooooooooo. You must take it out on smaller ppl than you. Right? Yea you know I'm right.

Yours truly,

Spec.

That's a very interesting interpretation. Do you realise you just took a good piece of time responding to something you feel is moronic? That's quite pathetic, but to reitorate, I expect nothing from a 30 year old virgin.

By the way, life is going just fine for me. Women, money, a post-secondary education, etc. (oddly enough, I have no need to escape with the aid of beer)

Anyhow, moving right along. I'll stop by the next time my BMW needs gas, you failure grease monkey

[Velociryx]

Iron: Respectfully I would point out that while this is not a "let's b*tch about civ3 forum," it is also not a "for fans of civ3 only" forum, nor a "firaxis love in" forum. It's a Civ3 general forum, and as Zylka's initial post was, in fact, all about Civ3, it seems to be in more or less the right place (not my call, ultimately, cos it's not my board, but it does seem to be in keeping with the spirit of things).

Also....I understand if you and Zylka wanna have a little flamefest....go for it....but was that last post really necessary? I mean, did further your argument in any meaningful way?

I would contend that the ONLY thing such colorful displays of language do is make the boards a less friendly place to be.

It is entirely possible to disagree with someone without resorting to name calling.

Perhaps the truth of that eluded you both for a time?

-=Vel=-

[Ecthy]

Am I missing pro-centre on that list of theses?

[Spec]

Ironikit, yu are going pretty far here but I understand the" Iam tired of being polite to whinners like you" stuff. I feel the same. So if you get banned, i'll march for you man!!!!
But stop with the mom whore thing, he's gonna take personnaly soon...


Spec.

[Ironikinit]

Now he's a lying *****.

I don't care if I get banned, I fully expect to. If there's any fairness, he'll get banned too. If not, hey, it's not my call. The people who run this site have their rules and since I haven't paid a red cent to post, that's all cool.

I just get sick to death of the whiners. I'm not talking about people who have a legit problem, I'm not talking about new players who are frustrated. I'm talking about WHINERS who don't add a damn thing and do nothing but WHINE. Many of them don't even play the damn game, they just think it's cute to spew their stupid little complaints. Petty, repetitive, boring, stupid, lame, sickening. I don't like this sort in real life, and I don't like them here.

Then some of them have the nerve, THE UNBELIEVABLE BRASS, to try to take credit for improvements to the game. Shooting's too good, really.

**** them, man. They're scum and should be treated as such. Their little sewing circle/circle-jerk should be rooted out and rousted out of the forum. I have more respect for Enconium than some of them, and Enco's been on ignore for a couple months now.

I've just had it.

[Zouave]

Ironikinit: Dude. Are you trying to get banned? I completely agree with you about Zylka lying his ass off about his BMW and girls, and the fact that he does little else but whine, and the fact that his life must be pretty boring if he can spend that much time compiling a list of whines. Granted, I have gleaned much amusement out of this thread, but why bother getting banned over some punk?

[Spec]

Originally posted by Zylka


That's a very interesting interpretation. Do you realise you just took a good piece of time responding to something you feel is moronic? That's quite pathetic, but to reitorate, I expect nothing from a 30 year old virgin.

By the way, life is going just fine for me. Women, money, a post-secondary education, etc. (oddly enough, I have no need to escape with the aid of beer)

Anyhow, moving right along. I'll stop by the next time my BMW needs gas, you failure grease monkey

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! BTW man, you talk to fast. It's completly unlike me to say this or to "up" myself infront of everybody but your are just to much of an ass. I'm an Enterprise solutions consultant, I got a paid RX-7 94 (327 Hpb, dyno tested), a house and I dont have a girlfriend cuz I meet a different girl every month. I can buy you off anyday man, and you know what! I'm only 24 years old. Dont get yourself to high on a fake ballon man cuz I'm sure a lot of peeps here can pop it anytime.

For the record, I dont think I'm better than anyone here, this is just the path that I chose, I dont care about what yoyu do or what you are, as long as I get along with you and you have toughted out opinions I'm ok. I'm sure that a lot of peeps are better than me here to, in fact, there's always someone better than you somewhere in the world. Keep that in mind asswipe and dont talk to fast.

Spec.

[Zylka]

You're such a flaming gimp, go masturbate or something

[Spec]

Originally posted by Ironikinit
Lying *****.

Me?!?!?!

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Spectator


HAHAHAHAHA!!!! BTW man, you talk to fast. It's completly unlike me to say this or to "up" myself infront of everybody but your are just to much of an ass. I'm an Enterprise solutions consultant, I got a paid RX-7 94 (327 Hpb, dyno tested), a house and I dont have a girlfriend cuz I meet a different girl every month. I can buy you off anyday man, and you know what! I'm only 24 years old. Dont get yourself to high on a fake ballon man cuz I'm sure a lot of peeps here can pop it anytime.

For the record, I dont think I'm better than anyone here, this is just the path that I chose, I dont care about what yoyu do or what you are, as long as I get along with you and you have toughted out opinions I'm ok. I'm sure that a lot of peeps are better than me here to, in fact, there's always someone better than you somewhere in the world. Keep that in mind asswipe and dont talk to fast.

Spec.

HAHAHA Who are you?

I'm a 19 year old runway model who's close to finishing one of three degrees. You pump gas for a living - admit it.

Now run along, kiddo. This is debate about civ3, not my repeatedly spanking your ass. Moving right along, back to civilized discussion, please