Homm4 - the Good, the Bad, the Ugly - Page 4

Triped · May 2, 2002, 16:08

The hexes make the battlefield look like some sort of sweater. Movement shadows are nice, though.

Standup · May 2, 2002, 17:52

But no patch outside the US

Does it change much other than the battlefield shadows ?

moomin · May 3, 2002, 08:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Standup
But no patch outside the US

God, I'm getting so tired of this. Not only are we Europeans expected to fork out roughly twice as much as our Amrican fellow gamers for the same product, they can't even release internet downloadable content simultaneously.

And then they b1tch and moan about piracy, would you believe?

Scouse Gits · May 3, 2002, 09:14

Yeah - just like the Heroes Chronicles rip-off -

"when you buy three HC you get this free extra one from the net..."

Were we surprised when the 'Free Extra' d/l said - sorry you do not have three US versions of HC!!!!!

What a sorry excuse for a company - pity the games are so bloody good!

SG[1]

moomin · May 3, 2002, 16:45

Game companies in general seem to be a sad lot these days, don't they? The only company I really trust to deliver as promised and to listen to their customers is Ambrosia, and they - of course - are Mac only.

Their game is the only reasone I still buy a mac along with my pc. Well, apart from the fact that the latest "lamp" eMac is just so cool my gf lets me have it in our bedroom.

Triped · May 3, 2002, 17:19

You can thank the publishers for forcing the companies to be a sad lot...nobody's allowed to spend the time and money it takes to deliver as promised anymore...they get cut short all the time.

chronocrator · May 4, 2002, 06:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Standup
But no patch outside the US

Does it change much other than the battlefield shadows ?

Asd far as I read it seems mostly a bugfix patch, there seemed to be a memory leak in the game which has been fixed among other bugs.

Concerning the no patch outside US issue. While I would like to have the patch for the German version why should the developers wait to release the American patch when it is one that is finished first

moomin · May 4, 2002, 07:28

Quote:

Originally posted by chronocrator
Concerning the no patch outside US issue. While I would like to have the patch for the German version why should the developers wait to release the American patch when it is one that is finished first

Well, that's borderline acceptable with translated editions, which seem to be popular in countries like France, Germany and Spain. But for those of us that bought the English edition it's really untolerable.

[RANT]
Why oh why do software companies feel the need to distinguish between the American and the English version by having extra copy protection on European verisons, thereby redering US patches unusable? Whithout exception, every warez release I ever saw was the American version of the game. And to think they won't travel over the pond seems like sheer lunacy in the days of the internet. Read my lips, manufacturers and distributors: your current practices are counterproductive, because they leave paying customers shafted compared to the guys who download warez. If I had stolen your game instead of pouring out hard-earned cash, I would now be playing with the patch as opposed to being left out to dry. Pondering how I will approach an expansion is left as an excercise for the reader.
[/RANT]

Grumbold · May 7, 2002, 09:55

There's a massive memory leak in the original game. Playing it this weekend it managed to eat up over 1Gb of extra disk space the swap file had grown so large. How on earth can mistakes this obvious get past testing? Like moomin I curse the software company structure that makes it necessary to compartmentalise different English language versions of the software even though i know a few of the reasons they do it that way.

On the Heroes v Creatures arguement, I swing both ways (ahem) in that I find Heroes can wipe through moderate monster stacks but eventually hoarding monsters will give you stacks so large that they can squash any hero. One of my favourite combinations is a chaos hero to cast mass confusion while my orcs and medusae eradicate even the most dangerous creatures from a safe distance. Heroes are too vulnerable to instant kill syndrome. Whoever gets to go first can unleash a spell that will kill or incapacitate several heroes. Magic resistance never seems to bounce indirect spell damage. You might argue that this stage is beyond the scope of most scenarios but the later campaigns (like the pirate one I'm currently playing) seem to make quick victories impossible. They've even got quest 'gates' set up so only certain players can pass through for the entire game. So the enemies have teleporters to your heartland while you have to spend weeks marching to their towns the long way round. It might help make up for a limp AI but it does make the game drag at times ... especially when it runs out of memory again as a result

I give HOMM4 a gold star for value, since it will take ages to play through all the campaigns, let alone the short scenarios, but a poor rating for originality and excitement. The maps are now so big and tangled that you can spend days and days riding around achieving little, especially when you have to repeatedly eliminate the random monsters that keep blocking the caravan routes. Once I complete all the games once I doubt I will be inclined to go back and strive for better or faster victories. Bigger is not always better.

Standup · May 7, 2002, 13:45

I was about to say something similar. Heroes 3 felt like a puzzle sometimes and often there was certain things you had to do to win. I found this quite limiting (possibly because i never worked it out) whereas IV feels much more like a conventional wargame with [so far] several different routes to victory.

I think because of this I do find the quest gates very artificial and limiting. In my current game - the second barbarian scenario i want to attack one of the AI cities but can't because i need a key. This key is probably way over the other side of the map and once i head off there the AI is going to run through a one way gate for one of my towns...i'll then have to spend time chasing and recapturing but having to go the long way round. I'm getting bored with runnning round maps when i know i'm in the strongest postion and all i want to do is attack the town and do the next scenario.

I tend towards monsters but i think thats just because i'm still playing it like 3. Hopefully i'm adapting. Note to self: Must remember caravans and that griffins now have 95 hit points.

Grumbold · May 7, 2002, 18:32

Yes it takes a mind shift to discover that a single hero can defeat four black dragons even if their normal talent is spellcasting (which I found out still doesn't work against them even with a ring of negation thats supposed to disable creature resistances). A warrior of the same level could presumably have handled several more.

moomin · May 12, 2002, 20:51

And two weeks after the American patch there's still no sign of the Euro one.

I'm getting so fed up with that I've taken to badmouthing HoMM4 and making darn sure everybody who values my opinion understands it's a stilborn game you'ds be crazy to pay for, at least if you're in Europe.

I honestly never thought it'd come to that with the HoMM series. Sic transit gloria mundi.

Triped · May 13, 2002, 01:57

Just get yourself the American iso or something if it's that big of a deal...

moomin · May 13, 2002, 06:32

Well, if I wanted I warez release I could have saved $50 I paid for the game, couldn't I?

It's stupidity beyond belief that 3DO is leaving their support into the hands of the warez crowd.

Pray tell, with this in mind, what's my reason for buing the next NWC game or exp, exactly?

Triped · May 13, 2002, 06:53

I'm just as disappointed in 3D0 as you are. Are you able to return your copy, and maybe buy an American one online?

I only suggest warez because you deserve to get your money's worth, and that's an easy option.

All in all, though, it's a very enjoyable game, patch or no patch.

thinkingamer · May 15, 2002, 19:02

1 thing about the patch: homm4 before the patch lasted about 2 hours then crashed, but with the patch it crashes every week! (7 turns), but then im playing a saved game before the patch, so maybe that can be the reason....

Asher · May 15, 2002, 20:31

Actually by far the most popular warez HOMM4 is the UK version anyway.

thinkingamer · May 30, 2002, 03:22

(note: i do admit that my PC is not a stable one)

I just downloaded the patch version 1.3. After and after 2 hours of play the results are:

No patch: it crashes every 20 min.
1.2: it makes the game crash every 10 min.
1.3: it makes the game crash every 30 min.

Conclusion: Homm 4 will never be stable as HOMM3 (crashed like 3 times in 4-5 years)

chronocrator · May 30, 2002, 04:33

I have no problems with the unpatched version, it never crashed, I still want the patch though since it changes gameplay a bit. Patch 1.3 is out but no German patch has been released yet.

moomin · May 30, 2002, 04:36

The UK patch is actually out, although it's difficult to download - 3DOs ftp servers are sloooowwwww and it weigths in at a whoppin' 16 MB. I let my home computer chew on it before I left for work. We'll see if things have improved tonight.

chronocrator · May 30, 2002, 10:51

I am quite sure the German version of patch 1.2 isn't out yet.

Standup · May 30, 2002, 13:20

16MB

even with my shiny new ISDN line that could take me a while. Anyone seen it on any (UK) magazine CDs ?
Even if not i've got Morrowind arriving tomorrow so i'm sure that'll keep me amused. Collector's edition (£52 - well it was the only one left) so i'll need to make sure i get to the post before the girlfriend as i don't think she'll understand !

OzzyMander · May 31, 2002, 17:45

I was all merry when i heard that my friend got it, i ofcourse went to see how it was like, it sucked alot. ill rather make new maps to 3 and play them than go buy 4 and play it.

Its a really shame how they make new and "better" games with more of 3D support nowadays. They end up being lousyest games ever came on the market..

Standup · May 31, 2002, 20:15

I keep getting the address not available messge. I presume this is becuase of low bandwidth and lots of people wanting to download the patch ? Has anyone got the non-US patch installed ?

chronocrator · June 1, 2002, 05:54

I actually prefer HoMM4 to any previous part concerning gameplay (have not played HoMM 1 though

). The new magic system is well done IMO and I prefer the new battles with heroes and instant defense, too.
I agree that the graphics aren't that good. BTW there are no 3d graphics in it, there are some prerendered graphics though, but no 3d card is needed.
What annoys me are the poorly designed campaigns. There's usually an exit-portal somewhere near your first town and whenever you move your main hero away from it a level 1 enemy comes through and threatens to take your town. Dividing your forces between your town and your moving hero makes the latter weak so it often isn't a good solution either. Each mission usually takes quite long because I always have to defend my colony from those coming through the one-way portals. Well at least I got the "Town Portal" spell when playing the order campaign, but that doesn't help much once I've got my second town. I wish they would hwould have gotten rid of the one-way portals but then the AI wouldn't be any danger I guess...

moomin · June 1, 2002, 06:10

Quote:

Originally posted by chronocrator
I actually prefer HoMM4 to any previous part concerning gameplay (have not played HoMM 1 though

).

I agree the overall system is the best yet. Magic and specialization is great. Remeber how your main hero always winded up looking just the same as every other main hero in H3? No more. But there are holes - AI, lack of TP - that get very annoying soon enough as you play.

[QUOTE]
The new magic system is well done IMO and I prefer the new battles with heroes and instant defense, too.
[/QUTOE]

The heroes in battle system will be _very_ difficult in MP. Very entertaining in SP, for sure.

Quote:

What annoys me are the poorly designed campaigns. There's usually an exit-portal somewhere near your first town and whenever you move your main hero away from it a level 1 enemy comes through and threatens to take your town. Dividing your forces between your town and your moving hero makes the latter weak so it often isn't a good solution either. Each mission usually takes quite long because I always have to defend my colony from those coming through the one-way portals. Well at least I got the "Town Portal" spell when playing the order campaign, but that doesn't help much once I've got my second town. I wish they would hwould have gotten rid of the one-way portals but then the AI wouldn't be any danger I guess...

My main beef with gameplay is that they removed the TP spell. Caravans - the propsed solution to the hero chain - just plain suck. This renders games larger than normal virtually unplayable, I think.

The AI is just to lousy as is. And given the annoying layout of the campaigns, they will be very close to impossible if they ever fix it to H3 level.

moomin · June 1, 2002, 06:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Standup
I keep getting the address not available messge. I presume this is becuase of low bandwidth and lots of people wanting to download the patch ? Has anyone got the non-US patch installed ?

Got it installed here. It's nice - battle shadows and grid are finally in. Although the grid is close to useless, unfortunately. The battle shadowing just rocks. The memery leak seems plugged. The music now works without a hitch. But the AI still sucks.

Sava · June 1, 2002, 09:07

In terms of the copy protection... go to http://www.gamecopyworld.com/ and you can get something to disable it.

chronocrator · June 1, 2002, 13:07

Quote:

Originally posted by moominparatrooper The heroes in battle system will be _very_ difficult in MP. Very entertaining in SP, for sure.

That could be true. Devils with their teleport ability could mean instant death to the enemy hero. Since the AI isn't using that strategy, combat is still fun but in MP many player will try to kill the enemy hero asap and there devils won't be much fun in that situation. It seems like the game needs to be reballanced for MP... on the other hand heroes can be freed again.

Quote:

My main beef with gameplay is that they removed the TP spell. Caravans - the propsed solution to the hero chain - just plain suck. This renders games larger than normal virtually unplayable, I think.

Is TP townportal? Then it is still there, its an order-magic spell. I agre that caravans aren't perfect but they are useful especially for collecting all the creatures from the nearby dwellings. Of course it is really stupid when a few creatures appear at the beginning of the month and block the path between your towns but this didn't happen that often to me yet.

Perhaps a size limit (a hp limit might be best) for aries could make the game better. The way it is now you basically need to make one huge main army otherwise you don't stand a chance (which will be also true in MP). Yet one main army cannot effectively control a lot of territory and a divided army would be defeated one by one by the enemy, so IMO a hitpoint limit for armies makes sense and heroes would play a more important role in those armies, too.

moomin · June 2, 2002, 09:23

A hitpoint limit would be very interesting. But I don't see it happening, unfortunately.

And TP is not in. The spell Order has now will just take you to your nearest castle, so it's impossble to jump around to defend you cities or to collect your critters. I really don't expect to play maps larger than Normal any more - I simply can't be bothered to run around like crazy retaking castels over and over again. I never finished most campaigns because this got old too quick.