On the Utility and Use of Armies - Page 6

Theseus · September 28, 2003, 14:03

The success rate is too high, yes?

I am of the believe that not all city defense modifiers work against amphib attack, although I have not tested this nor do I recall anyone else doing so.

Panag · September 28, 2003, 14:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Theseus
The success rate is too high, yes?

I am of the believe that not all city defense modifiers work against amphib attack, although I have not tested this nor do I recall anyone else doing so.

hi ,

yes and no , at one time a berserker or three ( elite ) lost against one pikeman , ......

should a coastal fort double the rate against an amph attack , .....

have a nice day

Jaybe · September 28, 2003, 15:38

Quote:

The success rate is too high, yes?

For Conquests, it has been stated that Marines would get an advantage in amphibious assaults. Is it possible the advantage was implemented into PTW 1.27??
My amphib assaults have also been surprisingly successful with 1.27.

SirOsis · December 17, 2003, 21:53

I've been looking over this thread and there is tons of great info. Thought it deserved a bump.

I'm also interested in how the changes in C3C have affected peoples use of armies. I had never really used armies before C3C but am really enjoying their capabilities now.

vmxa1 · December 17, 2003, 22:57

Of few of us used them before, but they were harder to come by. Now the MGL can be use with out much pain, before a leader would be needed for a great wonder.

Theseus · December 17, 2003, 23:46

I've been planning on re-visiting this... waiting for the C3C patch to start playing in earnest, and thus re-examining Army issues.

nbarclay · December 18, 2003, 17:50

I'm another one that didn't have much interest in armies prior to C3C but loves them now. Before, I hated how if I combined four units into an army, I often just got one attack instead of four. But with the extra movement point for armies in C3C, the worst case is two attacks with an army where four with individual units would be possible. With the greater power and survivability of armies compared with separate units, that is a good trade.

A less obvious difference is in how armies heal. Before, the benefit of healing all damage in a single turn in a city with a barracks did not apply to armies. Now it does. So not only can armies attack more when they're healthy, but they spend less time healing than they did in the previous version.

And then there are those four-movement-point-away cities that used to require positioning forces one turn and attacking the next. With an adequate number of MA armies, those cities are now in range to be taken in a single turn.

Before, I didn't regard building a Military Academy to crank out armies as all that big a deal. But now it's a very definite priority (although the armies tend to sit empty for a long time waiting for MAs to fill them).

Nathan

Theseus · December 18, 2003, 20:16

Nathan, Nathan, Nathan... not interested in Armies?

FOR SHAME!!

They are pretty insane now. I haven;t played epic enough, but I've been daydreaming (a LOT) about how the added movement changes their use. Slowmovers mixed and defensive Armies keep up with Knight-level and Tank-level units... hmmm. 3xKnight Armies... yeah, I'd still use up some Cavs there. 3xCav Armies should NEVER be polluted with a 2-mover... save'em for MA adds.

And don;t forget free pillaging!!

Don;t just let'em sit there, Nathan.

vmxa1 · December 18, 2003, 20:42

I am wondering if they will have to reconsider the army healing in such short time. It is so strong now.

MrWhereItsAt · December 19, 2003, 01:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Theseus
I haven;t played epic enough, but I've been daydreaming (a LOT) about how the added movement changes their use. Slowmovers mixed and defensive Armies keep up with Knight-level and Tank-level units... hmmm. 3xKnight Armies... yeah, I'd still use up some Cavs there. 3xCav Armies should NEVER be polluted with a 2-mover... save'em for MA adds.

And don;t forget free pillaging!!

Don;t just let'em sit there, Nathan.

Theseus you are really missing out here! Stop daydreaming and PLAY! Stuff the corruption, FP and gpt things - play on Monarch or something. Sounds like you really long for armies in C3C - so don't wait for the patch! Play with the express purpose of checking out armies! One of my games was just that, and that is where I started to really witness their awesome power.

As one of my friends says to me frequently

get over it and get on with it!

Master Zen · December 19, 2003, 01:47

bah,

post-beta I have only played C3C for about 2 hours (Mayans, demigod, standard size). Sadly don't know when I'll bother to continue playing as I have other stuff to do and I am really looking forward for the patch.

Then again I am also looking forward to seeing a new Army in practice, maybe I'll try and get one and see how it goes, like WIA says.

Mountain Sage · December 19, 2003, 06:23

A quick question for the Army experts.
In C3C, I loaded a 4xMarines Army in a Transport (capacity 6) and I added another Marine. Now the Transport is full.
Does the 4xArmy count as 5 or was I too tired that night to calculate 6-4-1=1 left?

geniemalin · December 19, 2003, 09:20

Yes, a 4x Army counts as 5.

An Army (even with no units in it) always counts as one unit 'by itself' and each unit loaded into it counts normally.

vmxa1 · December 19, 2003, 13:33

Look at it as having to haul the leader around. So you have the units in the army and the leader that created the army.

Theseus · December 19, 2003, 15:50

Not such an important point for Transports, but DEFINITELY something to keep in mind at Galleons and lower.

Arrian · December 19, 2003, 16:38

Mr.WIA is right, T. Play around some, even if it's on a lower level.

Armies are so powerful now, and you like armies... you gotta toy around with 'em.

Hell, I even made a 3x archer army one time (3.1.2 if I understand the bonuses correctly). I had a 13hp mounted warrior with blitz ability.

Then there was my 4x infantry army, working in tandem with 3 4x cavalry armies. Remember "Fun and Games with Modern Armor?" It felt like that, in the early industrial age.

And I haven't played a militaristic civ since Conquests came out...

-Arrian

Orz · December 19, 2003, 16:55

Army is a great thing and I think there are only a few Ancient/Medieval wonders I'd always prefer to an army...

Theseus · December 19, 2003, 17:26

Well, I was waiting for the patch.... I guess this weekend I'll screw around with a MIL civ in the ancient era.

Wanna guess who?

Rhothaerill · December 19, 2003, 17:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Theseus
Well, I was waiting for the patch.... I guess this weekend I'll screw around with a MIL civ in the ancient era.

Wanna guess who?

Scandinavia.

MrWhereItsAt · December 21, 2003, 08:23

Rome!

/me suddenly realises how good a Legionary army would be.... 4/4/2

Rhothaerill · December 21, 2003, 14:48

Quote:

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Rome!

* MrWhereItsAt suddenly realises how good a Legionary army would be.... 4/4/2

Yes that's definitely a good army, but think about a 7/3/2 Berserk army with amphibious attack and blitz.

There is absolutely nothing that could stand against it in it's age.

Theseus is well known for his love of Scandinavia. An army only makes them better now.

Solomwi · December 22, 2003, 12:12

Bonuses? Theseus isn't the only one missing out here. I can already tell what my post-holiday weekends are going to be like.

/me drools on himself imagining 2-move 4xMarine Armies with this added offensive bonus.

There won't be a coastal city alive that can withstand my power.

radegast · December 22, 2003, 12:42

I just finished a C3C game as Mogols (Militaristic Civ, yeah) on the largest map size and early on decided that the only victory condition for me was going to be Conquest. So I was very agressive (once in a position to do so, was very backward until chivalry), Long Live the Golden Horde, and ended up with an insane amount of Leaders/Armies/Elites. I'll admit I used the VP screen to keep below 66% territory and even built a number of useless cities within my borders to up the number of armies I could have/build.

My keshik armies were usefull to the end, even after MA arrived as their ignore hill/mountain allowed them into otherwise inaccessible places. My crusader army(!) was the perfect defensive unit for my massive artillery stacks, Cavalry armies can still finish off a well defended city once its been bombed to the red line, Tank and Mech infantry armies (either pure or mixed) are effective killers even against entrenched MI and MA armies are unstoppable.

With the extra movement point and blitz, armies become over-powered against the AI, it simply has no response or defence.

And I reckon I'd got about 30 of these things all lined up, 1/3 on attack, 1/3 moving into position, 1/3 healing.

How do you spell 'walkover'? Still, I did enjoy razing those 20-30 size cities full of French, Vikings and Romans!

OPD · December 22, 2003, 13:14

Hah I laugh at your cavalry armies, you should get yourself one of these.

Can attack any unit up to 9 tiles away in any direction. Can pillage 8 tiles each turn and can take a city with only 2 defenders from 6 tiles away...

I've just been pillaging the hell out of everyone as it's loads of fun, especially when they're in their GA.

Theseus · December 23, 2003, 00:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhothaerill
Yes that's definitely a good army, but think about a 7/3/2 Berserk army with amphibious attack and blitz.

There is absolutely nothing that could stand against it in it's age.

Theseus is well known for his love of Scandinavia. An army only makes them better now.

Correction, at 3xBerserk: 9/3/2, 2 move, blitz, AND amphib bonus.

I've been screwing around with a Scandy game, pre-patch... it is absurd.

I did some bad things... posts to follow over the next few days.

MrWhereItsAt · December 23, 2003, 01:23

Quote:

Originally posted by OPD
Hah I laugh at your cavalry armies, you should get yourself one of these.

Can attack any unit up to 9 tiles away in any direction. Can pillage 8 tiles each turn and can take a city with only 2 defenders from 6 tiles away...

I've just been pillaging the hell out of everyone as it's loads of fun, especially when they're in their GA.

Not bad..... any more impressive, and possibly unconventional armies?

And Theseus - YAY for you playing with armies. And the patch is here, so no-one should feel any need to hold back now, for ANY reason.

Cerbykins · December 23, 2003, 01:51

On a quick note, Jaguar Warriors could make for a novel pick for an super-early army, if no-one's yet thought it up
(remembers seeing talk of Jag Warrior rushing somewhere

)

Patch? Did someone say PATCH? I been waiting all day and all the week before it for this

-gone-

jshelr · December 30, 2003, 17:31

Anyone not convinced about c3c armies might try a couple of turns of this game with, I think, six Rider armies runing amok in the middle ages. LoL

Rhothaerill · December 30, 2003, 18:14

I'm finally experimenting with the armies (didn't play too many pre-patch games) and I have two legionary armies in the Rise of Rome scenario. Whoo, between them those suckers have almost singlehandedly spelled the defeat of Carthage. As it stands currently they've spelled the defeat of 9 Carthaginian cities, about 7 elephants, 10 or so swordsmen, and at least 20 Numidians/Spearmen. All for two armies with a combined total of six legionary units, and some judicious use of healing and a few supporting legions.

Rhothaerill · December 30, 2003, 18:15

BTW, I used to hate "wasting" a great leader on an army in PTW. No longer in Conquests.