POLL: No Unit Workshop in Civ3

[Dry]

What I would want, for the units, the same kind of problems as I have for trade or resources: to have to decide on what to focus.
In trade, I have to divide my arrows between tax, research and lux;
for resources, I have to decide to put my peasants in high food, high prod or high trade squares.
I would like to have the same 'problems' for units.
How this should be done, this is less important.
It could be done via a unit workshop, but as many said here, not a workshop a la SMAC, where I can build "the best of the best of the best (sic MIB)", but more a la MOO2, where I have a limited amount of points with which I have to decide what to 'buy'. Do I build fast light units or do I build strong but slow units?
It could also be done by having to decide between quality and quantity. Many cheap/small support/green units, or fewer expensive/high support/elite units?

I am no military specialist, but I think that *these* are the questions that were asked to all generals since ages: the 3 characteristics
- offense: catapults, canon, artillery
- defense: pikeman, musketeers, infantry
- mobility: horsemen, dragons, tanks
and the quality/quantity problematic.

I would like to have these problems reflected in CIV3.

SMAC general: "Let us put those catapult on our horses, we will have speed AND firepower".
CIV2 scientist: "no general, I am afraid you can't. You have to choose between the two, but now you say it, what I could do, is something called chariot, it should increase your firepower, but not as much as a catapult".
CIV3 General: "Wait, wait, you two, let me think...we have horses, wheel, Iron, ...could we think about a much less powerfull chariot, but best armored?"
CIV3 scientest: "Yes, why not, instead of a 3-1-2 chariot, a 2-2-2, why not?"

Remember also the story of the German scientist showing to Hitler their new invention:
- Here, mein Fuehrer, the jet engine. With it, we will have the fastest fighters of the world.
- Great, forget the fighters, put them on bombers and we will have the fastest bombers of the world.
- But, mein Fuehrer, fast bombers, why...?!?!
- Do as I say!
- ?!?!?

Quality vs quantiy can be done by 3 means:
- CIV2: different production cost. This is IMO not enough.
- different support cost, including money. This is a little better, as all of us know a stealth bomber cost more than a group of partisans.
- different experience level. I think this point is the one to be improved. Experience level is usually underrated in civ/smac games.
Put a few veteran of Napoleon's 'vieille garde' in fron t of 5 times so much austrian/prussian peasants of the Landwehr and there is no doubt about who will win.
I would like to see a 1 to 5 ratio between (very) green units and elite.

Ok, this is a long post, but to summarized, I would like to have, for military units, the same triangle problem as tax-trade-lux, or food-shield-arrow: offense-defense-move and/or a real quality-quantity problem.

[quinns]

Good. No workshop. Civ and SMAC already have a billion options, even without the workshops!

I loved the comparison with Chess and Go. Chess has only SIX different types of fixed units, played on a fixed sterile 8 by 8 board. "Go" has ONE type of unit (the bead) played on a fixed 19 x 19 square board. Yet there are still infinite undiscovered strategies to be found in Chess. And "Go"... there still isn't a computer around, (no matter how big), that can beat the best human GO player!! The strategies in GO are probably even more elaborate than chess... WITH JUST ONE TYPE OF UNIT!

Civ games and SMAC are quite enjoyable (well Civ games anyway ) with all the incredibly diverse options already available. But to argue that a "Unit Workshop" is needed to add MORE diverse strategy to the game is abosolutely ludicrous.

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[beyowulf]

You know, I really don't care. But there are two types of units I would love incredibly. A balloon(zeplin) trader, or cargo balloon(to replace camels) , and the harbor mine.

A limited form of unit workshop would allow me to accomplish the former, and maybe the latter.

Of course, I'll be happy if this game has balloons(zeplins), period, let alone, different varieties.

Or maybe something like this. Choose a chassis, decide for what purpose you want it. Diplomatic, military, trade, cargo, or spy, and that would be the end of it.

Two choices. Choice of chasis, and its purpose. That it. Offensive and Defensive values of military units would automatically be chosen depending on the type of technology you have.

Say we have a technology that allows you to produce spears, and nothing better. They would automatically be equipped with spears. Say, then you discover how to make rifles, now all future units would be equipped with rifles, with maybe an option to upgrade your spear units to rifles.

I WOULD like to be able to produce cheap units to overwhelm my opponent, like the Russians in WW2...

quote: Originally posted by quinns on 02-28-2001 04:07 PM Good. No workshop. Civ and SMAC already have a billion options, even without the workshops! Civ games and SMAC are quite enjoyable (well Civ games anyway ) with all the incredibly diverse options already available. But to argue that a "Unit Workshop" is needed to add MORE diverse strategy to the game is abosolutely ludicrous.

I too have to agree with Quinns on this one. IMO, CIV3 will have enough variety to keep the game interesting to say the least.

final results

Civ3: No Unit Workshop in Civ3 Option Votes / Percentage Good, I dont want it! 58 / 43% Bad, I want it! 51 / 38% No difference 24 / 18% Total Votes: 133 View Comments Forums Main Page