Sid Inyerview On Gamespot UK

[tishco]

www.gamespot.co.uk

Interview with Sid Meier!

Including: Is Civ going to come out on a next gen console?
I dont know the answer yet, havent got that far

I am first so narninarnina!

[SpencerH]

It seems to be similar comments to what was on the German site. I'm still stunned by some of them!

[tishco]

i havent been on german site
sorry, what comments are stunning?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Yo Vel,

Perhaps Sid is a bit nervous 'bout Candy's Bra


SM: It probably is more difficult, certainly games cost millions of dollars today and they cost a tenth of that ten years ago. On the other hand there's a much richer history to look back on and the profession is a little more well-defined. The internet provides an avenue for guerrilla design, or low-budget design, and it solves distribution problems. So if you're a brilliant designer who has a great game idea, you can put it on the internet and get a buzz going.

[SpencerH]

I'm not rabid about it, I realize its just typical interview banter, but here are a few quotes from Sid and Soren that caught my eye

Well, we've been able to keep the things that really made Civilization popular and fun to play - that one-more-turn idea

Maybe its just me, but I dont get that with civ3 (as I did with all previous versions)

People had been asking for us to expand the diplomacy system, give them a lot more options and this game really has a lot that you can do in terms of negotiating

Its better than civ2 maybe not as good as SMAC, but it still could be better

From Soren

We almost wish they could come to us earlier on in the process! We've seen a number of great ideas from the fans since they actually got hold of the game and we've incorporated a lot of them into the patches that we've released.

How could it have been earlier? There were ideas from fans (as there are now for CIV4) from day2 (if not day1).

From Sid

What we saw with Civ II, and we're starting to see also for Civ III, is that a community evolves around the game using the tools that we provide for creating scenarios and maps, changing rules and adding units, that really extends the lifetime of the game through a number of years.

Well hopefully we'll get the editor to do that at some point in the future

but we've been very happy working with Infogrames too, they've done a great job supporting Civ III

[Wittlich]

And during the entire interview, not one mention was made about ther possibility of Multiplayer support for Civ3!

[SpencerH]

I've been reading the German and Italien versions hoping to get a snippet about MP. Nothing.

[Velociryx]

Thanks for pointing that out, Ogie!

I doubt that Master Meier has even heard of us yet, but he's right. Guerrilla design...that would be us.

I'm not sure I get his point re: a much richer history/better defined industry.

Seems to me that neither of those things are critical to the success of Guerrilla design. ::shrug:: But then, why should Sid know much about that particular topic...it's not like he has to worry about finding a publisher....lol

Ah well, perhaps we'll yet make them stand up and take notice....

-=Vel=-

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Aaaah I see now.

Your the one that always votes banana on the 'Poly polls.

You guerrilla designer you.

[SpencerH]

Vel

For the short term, do you really need a publisher? Why let them take the profits? Start slow with a bank of fast CD-R burners and advertise here and at other similar sites. If its good (or promising) word of mouth will get it sold.

[Gibsie]

Whoo for Sid

[Velociryx]

Og...yep....now hand over that banana if you know what's good for you! I'm jonsing for one!

And Spencer....quite right! In fact, we're gonna be making use of what we jokingly refer to as the "pusher-model" for marketing our game (first one's free...after we get you addicted we'll start charging).

For the most part, with the advent of a growing number of high speed connection solutions on the 'net, I'm hoping we can avoid traditional media anyway. Oh sure, we'll need to burn some copies and send out to folks who have no access to fast connections, but where possible, I'm hoping we can handle the bulk of game requests via download.

So the plan goes something like this: We're doing this open source and in java....that rings all the right bells over at the Source Forge and Slashdot sites (LOTS of potential eyeballs there). We're planning to give it away when we're finished with Version 1.0....get a buzz going on about and around it, get people hooked on playing it, and talking with us about ways of improving it, and at that point, when it's time to secure financing for the company and doing it for real, we can go to the money-men with live data in hand (x-number of users right now, x-number of fansites right now, and the following plans for taking the game commercial.

Contrast that with the way most businesses approach the money guys....with a sheaf of papers outlining what they wanna do, and no clear idea if it'll even be popular or not! I'm hoping that with our approach, we can generate such momentum behind the game, that securing a round of financing to make an even better version won't be seen as much of a risk at all....

-=Vel=-

[SpencerH]

Sounds great . I'm looking forward to my first version.

[fezick31]

Originally posted by SpencerH
Vel

For the short term, do you really need a publisher? Why let them take the profits? Start slow with a bank of fast CD-R burners and advertise here and at other similar sites. If its good (or promising) word of mouth will get it sold.

That's a great idea and all, but for all the bad, there is the fact that publishers also provide legal backing. Case in point is CtP vs Civ2. IF sid had pushed Civ 2 out of his garage, he would have had a tough time of sueing Activision, as he would have had to hire his own lawyer (and a cheap one at that), and would of had to stop development in order to pursue the legal action.

For all the crap that comes with using publishers, there is the positive. It may screw the consumer over sometimes, but it is usually a much better deal for the developer.

[Spec]

. I like Civ3 very much but this article is made to sell the game. Civ3 is not that complicated and the diplomacy system is really NOT as good as Sid says it is. And he didn't mention that the game crashes for no reason and kills my saves once in a while.

Did he ever played the game?

Dont get me wrong, I still play the damn game...

Spec.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by fezick31


That's a great idea and all, but for all the bad, there is the fact that publishers also provide legal backing. Case in point is CtP vs Civ2. IF sid had pushed Civ 2 out of his garage, he would have had a tough time of sueing Activision, as he would have had to hire his own lawyer (and a cheap one at that), and would of had to stop development in order to pursue the legal action.

For all the crap that comes with using publishers, there is the positive. It may screw the consumer over sometimes, but it is usually a much better deal for the developer.

I agree that publishers can provide many levels of support, but I'm not sure that seeking one out because of the possibility legal action is a good enough reason to do so. There are lots of lawyers in this country who will work for their cut of the damages. It may take time, but if you've covered your bases you'll win, and in some cases win big.

Publishers can (and do) promote and support "struggling artists" of all kinds, but they can also hinder the ability of others to find a market. Lets not forget that they can take a huge cut. For example, if you compare the beatles to the rolling stones you'll find that the net worth of each of the beatles was about 10 times the net worth of Mick Jagger. Part of the reason for that difference was Abbey Road studios that the beatles started. Once they had the clout and money to do so, they got out from underneath the record producers. Today we have the internet, and if we support "guerrilla game designers" we'll be better off and so will the designers.

[fezick31]

SpencerH -

I completely agree with you, I am alll for freeware and open source. I'm just saying that when it comes to producing anything on a large scale, you have to concerned with legality.

...Abbey Road studios that the beatles started. Once they had the clout and money to do so, they got out from underneath the record producers...

That's my point. The beatles needed the record company until they could pay for all the legal stuff and overhead costs themselves. Once they could, they did the smart thing and got rid of them.

I doubt you would find a lawyer (or team of lawyers, which is what it takes), that would work for a percentage of winnings. This is not normal civil court, as you usually don't sue for damages. You have to prove that the defendents violated copywrite, and then they are ordered to stop making their product or change it to comply with the order (Activision, for example, had to remove the word "civilization" from CtP II). There usually aren't any monetary penalties, and if there are, they wouldn't cover all the legal fees.

Also, if you happened to get picked on by large company, you'd be sccrewed. For example, say Infogrames likes your concept, so they steal it and publish their own version. You'd have to find one hell of a lawyer to represent you to even stand a chance of winning against the team that works for Infogrames and is funded not just by the game in question, but by sales from every game infogrames sells.

Not saying it's good, just that that's how it is and you gotta be careful. You are right in saying you gotta cover your bases. A cheap copywrite technique is take your Intellectual property, create a hard copy (assuming it's code, burn it on a CD), then mail it to yourself. When you recieve the package, it will be sealed and dated by the US post Office. This is a quick and easy way to prove that you did it first .

[SpencerH]

Thanks for the interesting comments. This is one of my favorite soapboxes since I (could) face similar problems over intellectual property rights with the universities. I tend to get carried away and forget we all have to live day to day too.

Viva la internet revolution!

[Velociryx]

Another cheap, effective way to protect yourself is to talk about it openly and publicly on forums like this....date and time stamps are your friends....

-=Vel=-

[Soren Johnson]

Originally posted by SpencerH

From Soren

"
We almost wish they could come to us earlier on in the process! We've seen a number of great ideas from the fans since they actually got hold of the game and we've incorporated a lot of them into the patches that we've released.
"

How could it have been earlier? There were ideas from fans (as there are now for CIV4) from day2 (if not day1).

Well, we certainly looked at fan suggestions concerning Civ2, but at a certain point the two games were different enough that Civ2 suggestions were no longer applicable (such as with the culture system and trade/resource network). I hope that clarifies my point (I explained this fully in the interview, but my response was abridged in the final piece...)

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis
Well, we certainly looked at fan suggestions concerning Civ2, but at a certain point the two games were different enough that Civ2 suggestions were no longer applicable (such as with the culture system and trade/resource network). I hope that clarifies my point (I explained this fully in the interview, but my response was abridged in the final piece...)

Its clear that firaxis has looked at fan suggestions and there is an example cited in the interview with respect to the great leaders. In addition, I have also seen other hints that our comments are examined for their possible inclusion in future patches. I was not looking to be inflammatory, and stated that I thought it was "interview banter" by which I meant that these were not carefully scrutinized thoughts but merely part of a conversation.

On the other hand, I think there is a strong feeling here that firaxis remains aloof from fan involvement and suggestions. It was that paradox in your statement that caught my eye. The continued participation by firaxis at these sites to discuss realistic, and perhaps more importantly, unrealistic possibilities helps to counter those feelings. There are two sides to this argument, but I believe that serious communication rather than the (relative) seclusion of one line comments in occasional threads will serve us all better.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis


Well, we certainly looked at fan suggestions concerning Civ2, but at a certain point the two games were different enough that Civ2 suggestions were no longer applicable (such as with the culture system and trade/resource network). . .

Yea, and who told you to come up with this unrealistic, nonhistorical, bizarre Culture Flipping garbage?? It is CRAP to have a city that was Roman for 5,000 years to suddenly decide to become Iroquois based on what the stupid bean-counting AI decides. Happened to me. The huge garrisons of flipped cities vanishing into thin air without even taking out a population point is a joke. Culture Flipping borders - flipping over another civ's improvements - is equally stupid.

It is NONSENSE to have a recently conquered city flip back to the enemy civ just because it is near their capital - even though it is the ONLY city left in their civ and the winning civ has two dozen cities.


Resources?? It has already been admitted that the absurdly low values for post-gunpowder units is the result of the absurdly low number of resources, especially iron and coal.

Espionage? Generally considered good only to get another civ to declare war on you.

Naval Warfare? Mindless and pathetic, and even worse than in Civ II. Privateers and submarines should be useful to atack merchant shipping on trade routes; they are not in reality built to attack warships. This is why Civ players rarely build them.

Bombers that cannot sink ANY warship??? How dare you offer us such idiocy.

No scenario-building or cheat mode? Outrageous.

Maybe Firaxis and Sid - who SOLD his name for cash to be slaped on a box in an advertising campaign - SHOULD have listened more to what Civ II players wanted. You showed contempt for all of us by not doing so, and by releasing a beta game.

[Coracle]

Originally posted by SpencerH


. . .I think there is a strong feeling here that firaxis remains aloof from fan involvement and suggestions.. . .

True.

Firaxis has PROVEN they look at us only as a source of cash by releasing an underdeveloped Civ III = which really should have been titled "Culture" as it is too different from the Civilization series to be considered part of it.

The Corruption problem is another Firaxis insult. It is obvious the massive corruption in outlying cities was a last minute designer patch to slow down Civ development. Hell, we can't even sell or move that Forbidden Palace! Even Editing such as temples and cathedrals to fight corruption is of minimal help in parts of your civ.

[tishco]

cool, i'm in the civ3 news! 1st time!
btw, you spelled my name wrong, tischo when its supposed to be tishco
altho i wrote "inyerview" so it balances out