A short-winded plea for new "ear-candy"!

Ilkuul · April 7, 2001, 18:42

A game I've enjoyed playing is Warcraft II - and one of the really fun things about it is the "comments" the units make when you click on them. Like the peasants who say "Milord?", "Wot izzit?", "Hello?", "Eh, wot?", "Job done", "Okay", etc., in a dreary, resigned tone of voice. And the more you click on them, the more peevish they become: "Now what?", "More work?!", "Leave me alone!", "I don't wanna do this!!", "I'm not listening!" Even the sheep say "baa" when clicked - do it too often and they come out with "Baa-ram-you"!

How about buffaloes bellowing and workers whingeing in Civ3?!

MrFun · April 7, 2001, 20:01

Right - in the meantime, take a couple of pills and listen to your CD stereo player.

SerapisIV · April 7, 2001, 22:32

I agree wholeheartedly, Ilkuul

While SMAC was a major improvement with all the different quotes, they were really one-time events, like for discoveries or construction of a city improvement for the first time. The unit and battle sounds were way too lacking.

In an earlier Ask the Team, and with recent info a big move has been made to make a civilizations culture important. If all the units have different sayings like Warcraft, you'd lose the importance of culture if all your workers are saying "milord??" I'd love to hear Mongolian and Zulu phalanx sounding differently, but that sounds prohibitively hard in terms of pure size of effort and CD space.

More generic but noticable sounds like sounds of marching, or different worker sounds like that of water running for those doing irrigation and sledgehammers hitting steel when building railroads. That would be generic enough for all civilizations to use and help involve sound effects in drawing the player into the gameworld.

Ilkuul · April 8, 2001, 05:32

quote:

Originally posted by SerapisIV on 04-07-2001 10:32 PM
More generic but noticable sounds like sounds of marching, or different worker sounds like that of water running for those doing irrigation and sledgehammers hitting steel when building railroads. That would be generic enough for all civilizations to use and help involve sound effects in drawing the player into the gameworld.

That's a good point, Serapis. Of course in Warcraft they had a different set of responses for the Orcs; but that was only two, as against over 20 in Civ2...

So I think I'll have to modify my original suggestion. I still like the idea of hearing something whenever you click on a unit: and this could definitely also apply to 'resource' critters like buffalo, pheasants, etc. But how about, for instance, hearing the trumpet call whenever you click on dragoons/cavalry, engine noises for armor & mech. inf., and so on. And definitely the kind of sounds you mention; plus, whenever you click on a city, you could hear a general confused city noise appropriate to its level of development -- a traffic roar for modern cities, general buzz of human voices & wagon wheels rattling & creaking for medieval ones, and so on.

Like all sounds, this should of course be 'turn-off-able' at the player's discretion...

SerapisIV · April 8, 2001, 11:23

Those are exactly the kinds of sounds I'd like to hear. Though not just a randmom mechanized unit sound but individual sounds for armor versus mech infantry and howitzers. To tell you the truth I don't really have any ideas on what kinds of sounds would be good at least for those three to audibly differentiate them, but the general idea should be there if CivIII is to be end all be all Civ that Sid is aiming for. What seperates a good game from great isn't just the gameplay but also how the game pulls you into that world. Sound is very, very important to that and ambiance sound should get much more attention in this CIv then past games.

Adm.Naismith · April 8, 2001, 19:11

Individual units sounds can be good or overwhelming, they are really difficult to balance.

I must add they are a bit on the "tactic" side. I'll prefer if Firaxis will add more "strategic", epic and nationwide sounds and songs.

I remember my first Popolous (running on Commodore Amiga) that change music according to how well your "tribe" was doing.
I would love to ear sad or happy ballade, martial military march or simply the sound of screams and flames burning down my city.
I want to close my eyes and understand how good I'm doing, listen to my game background music.

I hope someone in Firaxis listen to the greatest epic films, and try hard to put their example of great soundtracks in proper use inside Civ III.
We already know of "Tower of Babel" painting used to inspire the team; is anyone suggesting the team to listen every other day some classical and film music?

------------------
Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

Fintilgin · April 8, 2001, 21:51

Yeah, it would be nifty if they had some `enviromental' sounds.

If most of the tiles on screen are ocean you hear waves. If most are desert you hear rasping winds.

When you open a city window you could hear appropriate sounds for the era/population. With four eras, you could have a unique sound for small, medium and large cities. That's twelve ambients. Opening Rome in 30 B.C. would sound very different from opening New York in 1975 A.D.

Heck, I wonder if they could use some of the tricks used in games like Half-Life and Thief so that units sound different when walking on different surfaces. Walking units might squelch when walking swamps and crunch when walking in the desert.

While discussing sounds, I REALLY hope they bring back the civilization specific songs from Civ1. The diplomatic background music in Civ2 was fairly uninteresting, and did //nothing// to accentuate the historical flavor of the game. There is an enormous amount of public domain historically appropriate music they could use as MP3s. I'd love to have a few for each civilization. You meet Abe Lincoln and hear the 'Battle Hymn of the Republic' or `When Johnny Comes Marching Home' or the national anthem. Talking to Napoleon and hear 'La Marseillaise'. Stalin the `Volga Boatman's song'. I may be flamed and lynched, but it was little touches like this which gave Civ1 more color and personality then Civ2.

Joe

Ilkuul · April 9, 2001, 16:38

quote:

Originally posted by Fintilgin on 04-08-2001 09:51 PM
If most of the tiles on screen are ocean you hear waves. If most are desert you hear rasping winds... [and] units sound different when walking on different surfaces. Walking units might squelch when walking swamps and crunch when walking in the desert.

That's a great idea, which could be combined with the unit-specific sounds mentioned earlier.

Ilkuul · April 9, 2001, 16:48

quote:

Fintilgin:
While discussing sounds, I REALLY hope they bring back the civilization specific songs from Civ1...

Yes! I still remember how disappointed I was when I discovered that Civ2 only had generic 'anthems'. No matter how many civs there are in Civ3, each and every one should definitely have its own special identifying song - and this should be played, not only at the end, but whenever they conquer an enemy city, discover a new advance, or build a Wonder! That would really help to build a sense of 'national pride' and achievement.

Maybe this could be combined with Adm.Naismith's idea of ambient music or sound that reflects how your civ is actually doing (as opposed to playing the anthem to boost morale in times of trouble): you continue to hear the anthem when you have an achievement, but in between those times you hear other music/sounds that reflect how you're actually doing - upbeat if well, downbeat if not so good...

[This message has been edited by Ilkuul (edited April 09, 2001).]

SerapisIV · April 9, 2001, 19:39

This might be overkill, but are those animated Lincolns and Maos gonna talk in the diplomacy screens? That's be pretty damn cool

- Groucho - · April 9, 2001, 21:17

quote:

Originally posted by SerapisIV on 04-07-2001 10:32 PM
In an earlier Ask the Team, and with recent info a big move has been made to make a civilizations culture important. If all the units have different sayings like Warcraft, you'd lose the importance of culture if all your workers are saying "milord??" I'd love to hear Mongolian and Zulu phalanx sounding differently, but that sounds prohibitively hard in terms of pure size of effort and CD space.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost positive that in Age of Empires II each different culture's units had unique responses in appropriate languages (apparently stuff like "rod woobya" and "schlonjagit" are appropriate response in Celtic when you're being bossed around and I recall tha some unit keeps saying "Ere (or ear?) luv"). A few .wav files for each civ wouldn't take up an inordinate amount of HD space and would add a nice bit of depth.

Let's hear it for ear candy!

- Echinda

Hasdrubal · April 10, 2001, 09:40

Candy! Candy! Give it to me!

There's no shame in being a hardcore strategist and wanting lots of candy.

Ilkuul · April 10, 2001, 15:18

quote:

Originally posted by SerapisIV on 04-09-2001 07:39 PM
This might be overkill, but are those animated Lincolns and Maos gonna talk in the diplomacy screens? That's be pretty damn cool

A cool idea, but what language would Mao speak? Chinese?! In which case we'll need interpreters etc. etc., which all begins to sound rather cumbersome...

quote:

Originally posted by Echinda:
A few .wav files for each civ wouldn't take up an inordinate amount of HD space and would add a nice bit of depth.

The problem might not be the amount of HD or CD space, but the sheer time and effort involved in getting (1) translations and (2) recordings for however many civs Civ3 is going to give us to choose from (see estimates/wish-lists in other threads of 64 or more!).

All that said, however, let Firaxis pile on the ear-candy! Can't be too much for me...

[This message has been edited by Ilkuul (edited April 10, 2001).]

SerapisIV · April 10, 2001, 15:49

I like Fintilgin's idea to be the focus of ambient sounds, that reflecting the terrain type most dominant to the terrain, though with devolopment, if roads are dominant, then wagon sounds, if automobile is discovered, some cars driving by, with a few railroads, a train now and then. But these should be subtle, transitioning nicely, not overpowering ambient, otherwise I'd just turn them off if they're obnoxious. I think unit sounds should only be used when they are given a particular command, not repititiously, because in the end game, there are a hell of a lot of units to move around, and I'd rather not here sounds from them unless I'm actually using them.

- Groucho - · April 10, 2001, 19:02

quote:

Originally posted by Ilkuul on 04-10-2001 03:18 PM
The problem might not be the amount of HD or CD space, but the sheer time and effort involved in getting (1) translations and (2) recordings for however many civs Civ3 is going to give us to choose from (see estimates/wish-lists in other threads of 64 or more!).

Do you need translations? Everytime that little Celt said "Rod-woob-ya" (I swear that is what he said) he went off and did what I told him. He could be telling me to stick my sceptre up my arse for all I know. It still makes good ambience.

As for talking Maos, I agree that it's probably best avoided. It would be very cool, but they would have to get new voice actors everytime they localised the game for another market - money which would be better spent elsewhere IMHO.

- Echinda

SerapisIV · April 11, 2001, 09:40

About the talking leaders, I was thing more along the lines of they speak English for US/UK version, German for the German version, etc. All you'd need is the accents. Though hearing the arguements, I think that'd dynamic music (changing from happy to pissed with my usual demands) and the cartoonish facial movements would be sufficient. For lack of speaking, dynamic music in the diplomacy screen is a must though!!
[This message has been edited by SerapisIV (edited April 11, 2001).]

EnochF · April 11, 2001, 15:44

Talking units have become a staple in many real-time strategy games. But actually, I don't want them in Civ 3. I found them an interesting but ultimately frivolous addition to Call to Power.

I wouldn't mind some background noise when I pull up the City Screen, though, gradually changing with the times. Horses and marketplace babble at first, then wagon wheels and blacksmith hammers, and eventually cars and gunshots.

Lung · April 12, 2001, 01:13

Yeah, ambient sounds for sure! Certainly when you start your game with your lone settler dude, you should have ambient bird noises or whatever to accentuate the feel of walking through the countryside. Perhaps these sounds should only apply to settlers, as they would generally interfere with the game, particularly if there is background music, which i'm sure we all want.

Hey! Why not have a choice of background music or ambient noises? To make it simpler, the background ambience should be determined by the square that the unit whose turn it is to move is?

For example;-
Grassland - bird and animal calls
Plains - mostly animal calls
Forest - mostly bird calls. Oh, and owls, too
Jungle - monkey calls, toucans, etc.
Swamp - Ribit! Frogs

hills - birds, animals
rivers - babbling brook sounds, especially on hill/mountains
oceans - sound of water lapping on ship hulls
mountains - swirling wind sounds. Oops, i forgot mountain goats!
desert - wind sounds and snake hisses and/or rattles!
cities - city sounds appropriate to age/size
shoreline - surf

In the case of non-city squares with roads or rail, an occasional train/car/horse & cart/carriage interrupting the default sounds would give some immersive qualities to the game. Terrain improved tiles such as farms should have occasional cows, sheep, etc.

I think this is a great idea. Perhaps this should be added to the "epic" thread?

[This message has been edited by Lung (edited April 12, 2001).]

Ilkuul · April 12, 2001, 20:54

quote:

Originally posted by Echinda on 04-10-2001 07:02 PM
Do you need translations?

As a linguist I have to say, YES, you do! There are plenty of people from many different languages and cultures who play Civ (just look around these forums!), and they're not going to be too pleased if a supposed French or German or Chinese unit comes out with a babble of nonsense!

Maybe Serapis's idea of customising the game for the major languages, and having all speech sounds be in that particular language, would be the best solution. Plus all the wonderful ideas for ambient sounds, or course!

King Richard · April 12, 2001, 21:05

Hellooooo!

This isn't a real-time strategy game!!! It doesn't make sense!

SerapisIV · April 12, 2001, 21:09

No this isn't RTS, but the diplomacy screen is where you put a face to all those multicolored sprites you see moving around on the screen. A really great feature of SMAC was how it really gave life and personality to the game leaders. It was more fun as you weren't plotting against whichever civ was the white color in this game, it was against Miriam, or against Morgan. It gave me a mental picture to aim my strategy darts at. The diplomacy screen must have personality. Maybe not talking, but its got to draw you in.

King Richard · April 12, 2001, 21:11

quote:

Originally posted by Ilkuul on 04-12-2001 08:54 PM
As a linguist I have to say, YES, you do! There are plenty of people from many different languages and cultures who play Civ (just look around these forums!), and they're not going to be too pleased if a supposed French or German or Chinese unit comes out with a babble of nonsense!

Maybe Serapis's idea of customising the game for the major languages, and having all speech sounds be in that particular language, would be the best solution. Plus all the wonderful ideas for ambient sounds, or course!

Good idea! If it is done, that is... Age of empires has something like this.

SerapisIV · April 12, 2001, 21:13

Oh you were talking about the ambiance sounds of trees and forest and stuff. Well, I'm all for it, just because I want the world to be alive and grow as I play. Its little touches like hearing the surf that add to the epic feel of a game.

King Richard · April 12, 2001, 21:21

quote:

Originally posted by SerapisIV on 04-12-2001 09:13 PM
Oh you were talking about the ambiance sounds of trees and forest and stuff. Well, I'm all for it, just because I want the world to be alive and grow as I play. Its little touches like hearing the surf that add to the epic feel of a game.

Yes, but as long as it doesn't annoy your gameplay (could be optional).

SerapisIV · April 12, 2001, 22:12

The sounds would be subtle, not obnoxious, sort of as in AOE if you moved across the map to an area without any units. Nature sounds are there, but relatively quiet. Just as nature is, a hell of a lot quieter then humans

King Richard · April 12, 2001, 22:25

quote:

Originally posted by SerapisIV on 04-12-2001 10:12 PM
The sounds would be subtle, not obnoxious, sort of as in AOE if you moved across the map to an area without any units. Nature sounds are there, but relatively quiet. Just as nature is, a hell of a lot quieter then humans

What about hearing trains pass, cars moving, and so on.

SerapisIV · April 12, 2001, 22:29

Mentioned earlier in the thread. The ambiance sounds would change with time and the level of tech shown on the map.

King Richard · April 12, 2001, 22:33

quote:

Originally posted by SerapisIV on 04-12-2001 10:29 PM
Mentioned earlier in the thread. The ambiance sounds would change with time and the level of tech shown on the map.

Ooops! Sorry! I didn't read everything...

SerapisIV · April 12, 2001, 22:36

$hit happens, these threads get long enough I myself usually end up only skimming too.

King Richard · April 12, 2001, 22:43

quote:

Originally posted by SerapisIV on 04-12-2001 10:36 PM
$hit happens, these threads get long enough I myself usually end up only skimming too.

Yeah, and when you are answering to many topics, it isn't easy...