PATCH v1.21f bugs and issues.

[Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by The Rusty Gamer
I just tried it again. I did not press cancel at any time. Same problem. I'd changed the number of players to 4, and for each player I set to starting with future tech and goverment democracy. The difficulty level was set to "Any" by default. After saving and reloading, the number of players had changed to 8, it had put starting techs back to Ancient Times, and had changed the difficulty settings to "Regent" but had left the goverment at democracy. Something is definitely wrong here.

Hmmm.... it seems you found a bug. It is saving the data properly, it's just not loading it back into the editor properly (so it will work in the game). Also, if you have a map, it should load the player data properly. Needless to say, this will be fixed (and so will the issue with the cancel button).

[Willem]

Originally posted by Grrr
Yeah, but it won't happen, sadly. They won't be in a hurry to create one as long as people like gramphos do it for them.

They're not going to be in a hurry as long as there's the possibillity of some dweeb who doesn't know what he's doing ends up crashing the game by making changes. Which is not all that difficult to do.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the ability to add units a product of the hacked editor, not the Firaxis version?

There was a back door in the editor which apparently they've closed. Not that it really matters. As I've mentioned before somewhere, it's more convenient using the MultiTool.

[Willem]

Originally posted by lorddread



Something I noticed, but can not confirm it due to a lost book, is that SOME cities over size 6, and next to large lakes no longer need aquaducts. Cities next to oceans do but lake front property don't.

It's always been that way. Being adjacent to a fresh water lake works the same as being next to a river, you don't need an Aqueduct.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Kamrat X

¤ Why can´t the AI separate the civs better? I´m playing archipelago. There´s approx. 20 islands of various sizes. 6 ( ) civs (including me) is located on the same frigging island!! And the AI don´t build triremes, so every friggin´civ keeps barging into my territory and wanders aimlessly around until it finds a patch of land on the fringes of my empire (not a big problem, since I´ll eat them in a hundred years or so anyway, but still STUPID!)

You can change that in the editor in the World Sizes area. There's an option that allows you set the spacing between the various civ's starting positions. The maximum is now 256 squares apart.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Willem


There was a back door in the editor which apparently they've closed. Not that it really matters. As I've mentioned before somewhere, it's more convenient using the MultiTool.

It may be fixed now (I couldnt find a post that said that for sure) but the copy tool had some problems with adding units to 1.21.

[Willem]

Originally posted by SpencerH


It may be fixed now (I couldnt find a post that said that for sure) but the copy tool had some problems with adding units to 1.21.

Well even Gramphos needs time to make adjustments. I haven't checked his thread yet, but I suspect he's already come out with a new version. At least that's what I read in a post just awhile ago. If not, it won't be long before he does.

I never bothered much the editor's back door, I always used the MultiTool for adding units etc. And I just read that JimmyH has come up with a new hacked editor with the Add/Delete buttons, so losing the back door isn't a big deal.

[SpencerH]

I like the multitool too but I cant add units with v0.91 and civ3 1.21. As you said Gramphos is adjusting.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Willem


You can change that in the editor in the World Sizes area. There's an option that allows you set the spacing between the various civ's starting positions. The maximum is now 256 squares apart.

Thanks! I haven´t used the editor before, maybe I´ll have to now...

But what I really want is a better AI regarding civ starting positions

[Harovan]

Why are the 3 awake workers in Tonawanda in the Military advisor's screen (F3) shown as my Iroquois workers, while the right-click menu says they are American? I want to get rid of my native workers, as all improvements are built, and these 3 "American" workers are all workers left for which I pay upkeep.

Another question, why have all my workers still the ancient look? I'm a Democracy, and researching Motorized transportation.

[Yurt]

Here's what I've noticed (sorry if this has been posted, but I don't have time to read all these posts):

The foreign advisor screen isn't fixed in any way. I'm not sure how it was supposed to be fixed, but there are still only eight spots and the first civs that I meet don't necessarily show up first.

Trading with the computer has been completely screwed up. Any time I offer them any gold per turn, it goes to "they would never accept this deal". Even if the deal would otherwise be acceptible, they still won't take any gold per turn. Not only this, but they refuse to trade me any technology. I couldn't get Theology or Engineering, even in exchange for 300 gold, World Map, and all my cities. The price of Contact with so and so seems to have risen a lot as well.

[player1]

Originally posted by Yurt
Trading with the computer has been completely screwed up. Any time I offer them any gold per turn, it goes to "they would never accept this deal". Even if the deal would otherwise be acceptible, they still won't take any gold per turn. Not only this, but they refuse to trade me any technology. I couldn't get Theology or Engineering, even in exchange for 300 gold, World Map, and all my cities. The price of Contact with so and so seems to have risen a lot as well.

AI doesn't have positive income.
Since they put very high science rate.

And if AI doesn't have positive income, it won't offer per turn deals.
NEVER!

This usually happens in ancient & medivial eras.

[The Viceroy]

Yes, Id noticed that the AI would never seem to take GoldPerTurn .. you can offer 100gold .. no probls, ask for 1 gold per turn (equivellent to 20gold) and NO WAY ... (I saw this in 1.17f also)

Im wondering if this is because the Civ's now will not go for GoldPerTurn if they are running a negative per turn economy themselves ???

Has anybody noticed the AI being fine about gold per turn later on in the game, after banks ?? cos you get a nice little gold boom just after building a load of banks, and maybe the AI has more money then with which to trade for Gold per turn.

I think the algorithm should say, if I can accept (eg 200Gold) then 10GPT or less is acceptable. In the opposite situation, where the AI has little money in the treasury, but it does have say 30GPT .. it should accept a GPT rate which may not be in its favour .. eg 15GPT (as we all do in our lives, LOANS) but of course, only where it really really see's value in the purchase. eg lots of rioting, need luxury desperatly .. falling behind in Science .. need science desperatly ..

Has anybody tried trading Gold for GPT ?? I use to do this on previous versions, and if the treasury of the AI was low, you could sometimes give 200, and take 13GPT ... anybody done this recently ???

[The Rusty Gamer]

Originally posted by Mike Breitkreutz FIRAXIS Hmmm.... it seems you found a bug. It is saving the data properly, it's just not loading it back into the editor properly (so it will work in the game). Also, if you have a map, it should load the player data properly. Needless to say, this will be fixed (and so will the issue with the cancel button).

Real soon I hope. There's a bug with setting the starting tech to future in any case because when you run the mod, within a couple of turns the program crashes to the desktop.

[heidlejohn]

I just played a new game started under v 1.21f using my Dell Windows XP computer.

There is NO OIL in the game. On my completely random maps theres was no tundra and no desert, hence no oil.

I started a thread called Firaxis: why is there NO OIL in my game? (heidlejohn is my member name). I also found only 6 luxuries in the game. The no oil thread has a zipped file to verify this problem.

Anyone else having resource oddities with the new patch?
What OS are you using if you have the problems?
Checking the postings to my no oil thread, I haven't seen any Firaxis response to this problem nor have I received any emails to see if they are looking into it.

[player1]

Originally posted by heidlejohn
I just played a new game started under v 1.21f using my Dell Windows XP computer.

There is NO OIL in the game. On my completely random maps theres was no tundra and no desert, hence no oil.

I started a thread called Firaxis: why is there NO OIL in my game? (heidlejohn is my member name). I also found only 6 luxuries in the game. The no oil thread has a zipped file to verify this problem.

Anyone else having resource oddities with the new patch?
What OS are you using if you have the problems?
Checking the postings to my no oil thread, I haven't seen any Firaxis response to this problem nor have I received any emails to see if they are looking into it.

It's not having no Oil a real problem.
Oil appears only on Tundra & Desert (sine 1.17f patch)

The real problem is why that random map has no Tundra or Desert.



One extra thing:
EARTH map (both sizes) which comes with game has no Aluminium.

Why?

Since there is no more Aluminum on plains from 1.17f patch.
And when map is made 6 months ago, Aluminium was on plains.

So this MAP is useless, if not redone.
No spaceship possibility.


To MapMakers makers:
Some of old pre 1.17f maps won't work correctly, since they have aluminum & oil on plains.

[surt]

Originally posted by Tre976


I play on Marla's 255x255 map with well over 150+ cities and too many units to mention , and my wait time is no more than 10-15 secs in the modern age during peacetime and MAYBE 30secs when its fullscale war..

go buy a new processor or a better MB and shutit!

The problem with that is that I did read the box before I bought it, and I'm safely well above the _recommended_ specs for the game.

If they want to make a game targetted for faster computers, that's fine with me, I have no issue with that, but I consider the game unacceptably slow on a computer well above the _recommended_ specs.

I also have the background to know that the problem is fixable, and i'd like to see them fix it (since they can't change the recommended specs at this point ....)

[SlowwHand]

Aw yes, patches are so wonderful.

[lorddread]

Originally posted by heidlejohn
I just played a new game started under v 1.21f using my Dell Windows XP computer.

There is NO OIL in the game. On my completely random maps theres was no tundra and no desert, hence no oil.

I started a thread called Firaxis: why is there NO OIL in my game? (heidlejohn is my member name). I also found only 6 luxuries in the game. The no oil thread has a zipped file to verify this problem.

Anyone else having resource oddities with the new patch?
What OS are you using if you have the problems?
Checking the postings to my no oil thread, I haven't seen any Firaxis response to this problem nor have I received any emails to see if they are looking into it.

I had to modify the Viv3mod file in order to get some strategic resources.

You may have just lucked out on this map. I had one similar where there was only 1 iron on the entire map. I was playing the 5 billion yo wolrd where there were no mountains.

[Redstar]

another problem (other than the loss of mouse function i reported earlier)...

sometimes when i load a game now..CIV crashes to the desktop.
These are game instances i never previously had a problem with.

Its not a consistant problem since more times than not the map instance will load properly.

-------------------------
(O/S ==win2kpro sp2 and a couple hotfixes)

AMd 1.3 GHZ
----------------------------------

Also playing on a previous huge map (1 i sent in for that shift-p problem that is now fixed)...overall auto movement of settlers seems much slower now!!

I have everything set to off (no showing moves and such) to speed things up.

This goes well for the main turn over between players.
But, when it comes time to auto move my settlers --the screen moves to various areas on the map...it doesn't show the settler moving..might hear the odd settler noise. But the point is...this time takes LONGER than the main turn changeover! Long enough that i have to go have a cup o tea ..

My mil advisor says i only have 47 workers now. But that's not right. I had close to 200 listed with the old patch and i can see there is many more than 47.


Still having fun though

[Redstar]

Originally posted by lorddread

I was playing the 5 billion yo wolrd where there were no mountains.

hello

A young world you would expect to have mountains created by all that fiery upheaval of birth.

But on very old planets, the atmosphere will have worn down all the mountains until you have nothing but flatness the world over.

---------------------------------------

"I play on Marla's 255x255 map with well over 150+ cities and too many units to mention , and my wait time is no more than 10-15 secs in the modern age during peacetime and MAYBE 30secs when its fullscale war.. "

I don't believe that for 15 seconds --why not even 1.

[bigvic]

So far, so good for the patch. Have not seen many probs w/ resources yet, except that coal is rare in the game I'm playing. Feels like overall the game is approaching its potential.

[bigvic]

And, am I crazy, or did I see an AI power use a land bombardment unit on the offense? I think I did.

[LaRusso]

hum, some things i have noticed (and i do not like them so far):

- AI now simply won't trade techs at all. I find myself lagging behind very badly and NO MONEY will buy me a tech. i am aware that they tried to plug the 'no research, buy techs' exploit, but the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction. crude fix

- culture is now well balanced and so are the flips

- on two continents, in my last game, i contacted the other continent civs, but i had no option to sell communications to the civs based on my continent. might that be because i did not have astronomy and navigation and crossed the ocean with my trireme by pure luck (other continent civs had caravels but i am almost positive they did not sail the world first because civ's on my continent did not have option to offer me their communications). it might be a bug. i do have a savegame somewhere

- i was offered an MPP while i had no nationalism (other side did). that was during my war but the other side did not join (yes, there were multiple battles on my soil). that was odd


all in all, there are a number of oddities in this challenging patch. i am not sure if they are bugs or just my misperceptions, but the game certainly feels different

techs are still wayyyy too quick and ai trades like crazy. on 12 civs, standard map i lag about 7-8 techs by modern times, and cannot close that gap at all, despite having a sizeable empire and cool research. at the same time, miniscule AI nations somehow get those same techs that i have been refused (and it really is silly). i mean, indians, who i reduced to one city, no treasury and are about to fall, have 3 techs more then me, despite having only 3 cities in the past hundred years.

[Shambul]

The MAIN reason I got the patch to begin with, is because it would allow me to see 8+ civs at a time...

That doesn't work. I know this has been brought up before, but I don't see an answer for it. Terribly annoying. o.o

Any plans on fixing this? Being able to communicate with all the civs you encounter would be super groovy.

[Redstar]

you have to play more than 1 game to determine if resources are shallow or not...or even if civs will trade tech to ya.

Afterall, these things are random and will swing. You have to play, say 10 games, before you can say oil is scarce.

I have played 3 games now..with the patch.

I have had no problems getting tech from money (its pretty cheeky that they offer you a tech for 20 gold on the same turn as you are about to discover it

I have yet to have less than 2 of any resource. But until i have played 7 more full games...i'm not gonna predict which of us has the more normal experience.

I agree with the culture thing already though...a definate improvement!

And yeah..the corruption is something i can finally live with but only so long as i'm not done in by the commie flat tax.

[ixnay]

Originally posted by Shambul
The MAIN reason I got the patch to begin with, is because it would allow me to see 8+ civs at a time...

That doesn't work. I know this has been brought up before, but I don't see an answer for it. Terribly annoying. o.o

Any plans on fixing this? Being able to communicate with all the civs you encounter would be super groovy.

It was never said that this patch would address this. You can communicate with everyone with Shift+D or Shift+Right clicking on the portraits in the foreign advisor screen.

[star mouse]

Please examine the issue of resource availability on randomly-generated maps, particularly those that are at the extreme ends of the range (warm, wet, 3 billion etc.) For example, with Oil only found in Desert and Tundra, warm and wet maps may have little or no oil.

[lorddread]

Originally posted by Redstar
I have had no problems getting tech from money (its pretty cheeky that they offer you a tech for 20 gold on the same turn as you are about to discover it

Man are you lucky, I was researching infantry and the Indians offered me the Free Artistry tech for 2,450 gold + 34 gold / turn.

These seem to be normal trades lately. Did Fraxis do something in the patch to make trading with the AI outrageous?

In another game I was playing the Americans. There were 8 other Races. I had Greece and Egypt for neighbors. I found Rome and traded techs with him. I was the first to find him because he wanted comms with G & E. I said no and traded tech for tech. When I talk to Babylon he already know's G & E and when I switch back to Rome, so does he, plus they have traded techs all within my turn. This problem has not been fixed. Does anyone know when they might? It is getting to be a headache.

[alexman]

Has anyone noticed this?

When you create a custom map of any size, the game uses the optimal number of cities for a standard-size map. This was not the case before 1.21.

So, playing on a tiny user-created map will have optimal cities = 16 instead of 12 if you don't change anything else.