Computer Gaming World CIVIII preview

shuttleswo · March 27, 2001, 14:58

I've been lurking here a little in anticipation of the game, but I got my copy of the 05/2001 copy of computer gaming world today in the mail and it had a preview of CIVIII on the cover! the preview is complete with screen shots and detailed info from Sid. Some of it similar to his interview in GameSpot UK but way more detailed and with some early screen shots. here are some excerpts [i typed them in by hand so please excuse any typo's)

"now game worlds sport raw materials that when sitting within a city's sphere of influence can be used for the good of the player's civilization...in firaxis' design the raw map resources tie directly into the gameplay [as opposed to CTP] rather than functioning strictly as a source of revenue raw goods can be used to build certain types of units or to make your citizens happier. you can also use them to amplify your power, and possibly even win the game...
[with the addition of culture into the game] "Libraries and other city improvements accumulate culture points for a civilization expanding their borders and influence. The older the library the more culture you accumulate. The more culture you accumulate the easier it is to happily assimilate conquered cities."

"Settler units have now been split into two the original settlers and terrain-improving Workers, who can be captured by other players."

[the addition of great leaders] "any time a unit wins a battle and gets promoted to veteran status there's a small chance a leader will be spawned. When this happens get the Leader back to a city without being captured and you can use him for three tasks he can build an army (essentially a stacked unit that fights all at once), form a Military Academy (which builds armies), or accelerate the construction of one building in your empire.
Depending on how the idea comes through in playtesting the design team is also toying with allowing Great Artists, Explorers, and Scientists to be born out of cities leading in each category."

it also mentions how the design team is using Brueghel's "Tower of Babel" as a design template. and there is way more. if you can find a copy DEFANITELY get it.

here is an excerpt of a table i didn't see on the first run through:
"
What's in:
multiplayer
Diplomatic and economic victories
Raw materials and trade
cultural expantion
borders and zone of control for swift units
great leader units
armies

What's out:
Supporting military units with shield units (its only gold now)
The city view [note: this is odd since one of the screenshots in the article is a "improved" city view]
Fundamentalism

What's Changing:
Health points for units
the space race end game
advisers provide more useful info
tech tree (which can be queued up)
civolopedia
diplomacy is more complex and converstaional"
[This message has been edited by shuttleswo (edited March 27, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by shuttleswo (edited March 27, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by shuttleswo (edited March 27, 2001).]

Roman · March 27, 2001, 15:32

Whoa, this is all excellent news. I hope Dan Maghana confirms this..

The diplomat · March 27, 2001, 15:37

I don't use this word often but I will here: AWESOME!

They are putting in lots of things that I have always wanted. It seems also like they are really listening to the trade/ressources discussion that we have been having.

------------------
No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

raingoon · March 27, 2001, 16:20

This is way cool. It seems like they've heard a lot of discussions we've been having, doesn't it? I suppose, being fans of the game themselves, they've been having the same discussions...

Hey, shuttleswo -- anything about a more specific release date? How about a release year?

shuttleswo · March 27, 2001, 16:31

I just got off work and have some time to post some more from the article

"Material Goods

Each raw -good icon supplies an entire civilization with that particular good. Resources such as iron and uranium allow a civilization to produce certain goods. Luxuries such as ivory make the population happier. RULES One icon supplies all cities linked to each other by road or by harbor with that particular good. VALUE adds extra depth to the game's economic model in a tangible way. Allows players to create monopolies on certain goods within continents, in a sense becoming power brokers."

"Culture
Each civilization accumulates cultural points based on the types of city improvement built and how long they've been around. When one civilization takes over a foreign city a stronger culture rating will make the assimilation easier and avoid debilitating unhappieness. RULES If you build cultural improvements (a library, a wonder) early in the game these enhancements will generate cultural points the entire game. they may also expand your influence and your city boarders. Captured units retain their cultural identity. VALUE Creates extra tension and opportunity trade-offs around decision making. Gun-or-enhancement decisions become even more critical in the early game because of the cultural payoff. Also places more even emotional and functional value on older cities."

note that this was formatted oddly in the article. the words in capital seem to be some kind of catagorization.

shuttleswo · March 27, 2001, 16:34

quote:

Originally posted by raingoon on 03-27-2001 03:20 PM
This is way cool. It seems like they've heard a lot of discussions we've been having, doesn't it? I suppose, being fans of the game themselves, they've been having the same discussions...

Hey, shuttleswo -- anything about a more specific release date? How about a release year?

the last line of the article is as follows "with any luck, that sprint end this November or December" but that's the article's author talking not sid or jeff briggs (also quoted in the article) talking.

The diplomat · March 27, 2001, 16:50

quote:

Originally posted by shuttleswo on 03-27-2001 03:31 PM
"Material Goods

Each raw -good icon supplies an entire civilization with that particular good. Resources such as iron and uranium allow a civilization to produce certain goods. Luxuries such as ivory make the population happier. RULES One icon supplies all cities linked to each other by road or by harbor with that particular good. VALUE adds extra depth to the game's economic model in a tangible way. Allows players to create monopolies on certain goods within continents, in a sense becoming power brokers."

"Culture
Each civilization accumulates cultural points based on the types of city improvement built and how long they've been around. When one civilization takes over a foreign city a stronger culture rating will make the assimilation easier and avoid debilitating unhappieness. RULES If you build cultural improvements (a library, a wonder) early in the game these enhancements will generate cultural points the entire game. they may also expand your influence and your city boarders. Captured units retain their cultural identity. VALUE Creates extra tension and opportunity trade-offs around decision making. Gun-or-enhancement decisions become even more critical in the early game because of the cultural payoff. Also places more even emotional and functional value on older cities."

AMAZING!

The game sounds absolutely great. it looks like trade will finally work right in a civ game. Also, the idea of roads transmitting a ressource to other cities is wonderful.

------------------
No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

raingoon · March 27, 2001, 17:10

quote:

Captured units retain their cultural identity.

This is a sentence the leaps out at me. Those of us who remember back to the halcion days of the religion thread 2.0 have been waiting to hear more about how "culture" -- if not religion per se -- will be modeled in the game. Does this means every nation will have its own cultural identity? Apparently so, and that's amazing! But how does it affect the game?

Is there a way for my nation's cultural identity to expand into my neighbor's civ, even if I don't attack him? Can I see a map filter that shows how the cultural borders differ from the political borders? And do foreign units or cities near my border have a percentage chance of adopting my cultural identity, thereby making it easier for me to subsume them? Questions, questions, questions...

Sparky · March 27, 2001, 17:22

Excellent way to do materials and trade Firaxis. I always wondered in Civ 2 why the trade commodities were based on technology and not on the squares you actually had under your control. This will make a very strategic trade war.

Has Firaxis taken the environment into consideration; can you deplete your forests and other natural resources?

Sparky · March 27, 2001, 18:05

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I literally ran down the street to the drug store. They don't have it yet!

Ilkuul · March 27, 2001, 18:18

The thing that leapt out at me from Shuttle's original posting was "Diplomatic and economic victories" as something 'in' -- that's great news! I may have missed discussion of this in these forums, but does anyone have any idea of what these might be? Shuttle, was anything further said about them in the article?

That I would dearly love, i.e. different and peaceful ways of winning!

shuttleswo · March 27, 2001, 18:33

i was debating wether or not to post scans of the article b/c of copyright law & what not, but if I was in the other boat of wanting to see them but can't access them it'd drive me NUTS, so I've posted them here to save someone's sanity. hopefully CGW and Firaxis will post some better ones and eliminate the need for these poor quality scans.

http:\\webpages.ursinus.edu\jshuttlesworth
enjoy.

The diplomat · March 27, 2001, 18:57

I just checked out the screenshots and the city screen.
AMAZING AMAZING AMAZING etc.... UNBELIEVABLE

Check them out RIGHT NOW people. WOW WOW WOW WOW

The graphics are sooooo much better than civ2 and the city screen looks super good. You can see the complexity in the model but the interface is so smooth.

I AM SOOO EXCITED ABOUT THIS GAME!

I have a question: in the city screen, I don't see heads in the city radius. Has Firaxis dumped the "workers on tiles to produce ressources" system and replaced with something better? I hope so, I so hope so!

------------------
No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.
[This message has been edited by The diplomat (edited March 27, 2001).]

Zanzin · March 27, 2001, 19:00

Screen shots are encouraging!!

Except the map....that's not "bright" at all!!

Roman · March 27, 2001, 19:03

This looks great!!

Tks. for the screenshots.

The only thing which mystifies me is that the article says, the city screen is out and yet shows the city screen in the screenshot.

Roman · March 27, 2001, 19:06

I get it now!!

quote:

Gone is the original game's slightly cumbersome city-management screen.

The designer got confused with CTP, which had the city-management screen. Civ2 has the city-screen, which will also make it into Civ3.

The diplomat · March 27, 2001, 19:11

Is the second pic, the city view? It looks great. It looks like a city not like the ciity view in civ2! WOW

About the city screen: did they get rid of workers on tiles? Can you adjust the production and food directly? They look like sliders, but I am not sure. I want to know!

------------------
No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

Shadowstrike · March 27, 2001, 19:25

While this looks amazing, can it be comfirmed by Firaxis? Dan?

Cyclotron · March 27, 2001, 19:32

Yeah, these shots are really dark... is this because of you scanning it, or are these shots really photonically challenged in the magazine?

------------------
Any shred of compassion left in me was snuffed out forever when they cast me into the flames...

Sparky · March 27, 2001, 20:30

Speaking of scanning, would someone pease do that for those of us who can't get the magazine? I'd REALLY appreciate it.

Kull · March 27, 2001, 20:47

Ya gotta love this place. I found my copy of CGW in the mailbox, goggled at the cover and the screen shots(!), raced in to the computer to announce the news and post some scans......and shuttleswo beat me to it by a mile!

The scans he posted are pretty accurate in terms of color. Maybe a tad darker than the mag. My first thought on seeing the terrain was "vibrant", especially the city-view.

Well, now I guess I've got some time to actually sit down and relish....uh....read the article.

yin26 · March 27, 2001, 20:50

Well, the screenshots still look awfully rough. I can see why Dan wouldn't rush to post them. Encouraging, however.

BTW, shuttleswo, are you studying at Ursinus College in PA? If so, we have just starting working on a Sister Campus relationship (we: Kyung Hee University in Korea). In which case, if you ever want to experience Korea through this (hopefully soon-to-be signed) agreement, I'll be the guy helping get you here.

Kull · March 27, 2001, 20:51

One of the best things about this is.....it STILL looks like CIV!!!!!

Fiera · March 27, 2001, 22:12

Wow, what can I say... I'm impressed...

But, has anyone else realized that the units depicted in the first screenshot, as well as in the last one, have nothing to do with the ones already posted by Firaxis at the official site?

Might these be old, and posibly obsolete, screenshots?

Zanzin · March 27, 2001, 22:49

On second viewing, I'm not so critical. These are scanned images, so the quality ain't that great.

Good things :

- City View!! Yeah!! Looks absolutely awesome...although I wonder, things like the aquaduct...will this disappear in modern ages? (Like when a sewer system is built) The fact that the city view screen is in the game makes me almost fall immeadiately in love with Civ3 (as if I wasn't already)

- Lighthouse Wonder (looks like it from city view)

- There will be advisors

Bad:

- There's going to be no Public works system...sigh

The unknown:

- Still nothing concrete on stacked combat (although it looks hopeful)
- How far along are these graphics?

Anybody from Firaxis want to comment?

Chronus · March 27, 2001, 22:53

Alright, already! Enough! My concern is that nobody has said anything negative yet. Didn't we go through a similar scenario not too long ago with CTP2? Everybody was gaga over it until the product finally reared its ugly head.

With that said, having leader units appear (and possibly artitists, scientists, etc.) sounds pretty interesting. Culture sounds cool and more emphasis on economy/trade and such just tickles my ears.

My expectations for this game is much higher than CTP2. I suppose this is unfair but ...

Now let's just hope the actual game can live up to its reputation.

me_irate · March 27, 2001, 22:55

does the magazine have a website?

I found a website www.zdnet.com/cgw but it doesn't mention anything about civ3. Am i in the right place? or did i just miss something?

Zanzin · March 27, 2001, 22:56

Kull, or shuttleswo, are the images (that shuttleswo posted) that "grainy" in the magazine? Or was it just the scanning?

shuttleswo · March 27, 2001, 23:11

quote:

Originally posted by Zanzin on 03-27-2001 09:56 PM
Kull, or shuttleswo, are the images (that shuttleswo posted) that "grainy" in the magazine? Or was it just the scanning?

it's probably a little bit of both, i saved the files as gif's to reduce the size of the files a bit, this causes them to loose some color, which consquently could make them look more grainy/darker or distorted. like i said, i really hope the CGW or Firaxis will post some better ones soon b/c any scan of a print magizine isn't going to be as good as a screen capture, no matter how big the file or detailed the scan. although the "city manager" view is really small and dark in the mag. the city view takes up nearly two pages and is clearly the 'money shot' of the article - the rest are small accent shots in the margin.

quote:

Originally posted by yin26 on 03-27-2001 07:50 PM
BTW, shuttleswo, are you studying at Ursinus College in PA?

actually i'm an employee at the collge in the cs department.

[This message has been edited by shuttleswo (edited March 27, 2001).]

Zanzin · March 27, 2001, 23:23

I see.

Well, now that the cats out of the bag, as such, Firaxis might loosen up and post some nice screenshots.

I can understand that if the other pics were little ones then the quality is going to suffer. In "the early main map screen", would people agree that the city looks like a "castle" style?

Also, in the other pic with a whole heap of units, I can pick out four differnt tanks!! Interesting. There also appears to be Arhcers, warrior type units, and a funky little cannon