Magic: The Gathering - Page 3

Jon Miller · April 24, 2002, 22:19

yah

see Jakko, of at least what he mentioned I didn't see anything that screamed 5 color deck

I think it is more difficult to create a 5 color deck and if he has not been too successful with mono or two color decks that is the place to start

yah, I only use the sentinels in fast two color decks

isn't crusade better than devine sacrement??

Jon Miller

Urban Ranger · April 24, 2002, 23:50

Crusade is way gross for white weenie decks.

Urban Ranger · April 25, 2002, 00:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaakko
Devoted Caretaker - W - 1/2 Cleric - W, tap: target perm you control gains protection from insts & sorcs until end of turn

Amazing card this one. A good 1-drop combined with an ability that can save your ass whenever you have important stuff on the table.

For that price, it is an excellent addition to white weenie decks.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaakko
Aven Shrine - 1WW - Enchantment - whenever a player plays a spell, that player gains X life, where X is the number of cards in all graveyards with the same name as that spell

One of the most ineffective lifegain spells I've seen, especially since it works for the opponent as well.

Could be useful to play against discard decks, esp with weenie decks.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaakko
Earnest Fellowship - 1W - Enchantment - Each creature has protection from its colours

Again good for Domain, assuming you have multicoloured creatures that can take proper advantage of this card.

This seems to be screaming for combo. Very good against direct damage if you get some damage redirector such as Jade Monolith and some multicoloured creatures. Hard to set up, but should also be good against other sorts of attacks too.

Should be a sideboard card, since you don't want to play it against multicolour creature decks.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaakko
Karmic Justice - 2W - Enchantment - whenever a spell or ability an opponent controls destroys a noncreature perm you control, you may destroy target permanent controlled by that opponent.

Pure sideboard stuff against things like LD or Braids.

What are those?

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaakko
Vengeful Dreams - WW - Instant - Discard X cards from your hand, remove X attaxking creatures from game.

Good mass removal against beatdown, but only if you have the cards to take advantage of the discard.

Particularly good for weenie decks against meanie deacks.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaakko
5 Helionaut (2W 1/2 soldier, flying. 1, tap: add one of any colour)

Fulfills two functions, both extermely badly.

A little iffy to put in a weenie deck, but if there are no other flyers this might have to make do.

Urban Ranger · April 25, 2002, 00:09

Is Winter Orb available? These are cool to add to weenie decks.

MrFun · April 25, 2002, 00:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Is Winter Orb available? These are cool to add to weenie decks.

They're very nice weapons.

monolith94 · April 25, 2002, 01:26

I would only play people who use classic and close to classic, none of the fancy crap they pull nowadays. I remember the good old sea serpent...

Jon Miller · April 25, 2002, 01:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Crusade is way gross for white weenie decks.

why is it gross?

it gives +1/+1 for 2

Jon Miller

Jon Miller · April 25, 2002, 01:49

For that price, it is an excellent addition to white weenie decks.

- excellent for most any white deck

Could be useful to play against discard decks, esp with weenie decks.

- there are better cards, life gain sucks

What are those?

- torment cards I beleive

Particularly good for weenie decks against meanie deacks.

- yes, it is ok in that case

A little iffy to put in a weenie deck, but if there are no other flyers this might have to make do.

-ack, there has to be something better

Jon Miller

Urban Ranger · April 25, 2002, 02:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Miller
why is it gross?

it gives +1/+1 for 2

Jon Miller

That means any white 1/1 creatures I bring out with W is now worth 2/2. Not to mention that the benefits are cumulative (imagine what 4 Crusades do

), and works well with a number of other cards such as Castle.

Oh, yes, Balance is the white card to have.

"- yes, it is ok in that case "

Much better than plowsharing them.

Jon Miller · April 25, 2002, 02:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

That means any white 1/1 creatures I bring out with W is now worth 2/2. Not to mention that the benefits are cumulative (imagine what 4 Crusades do

), and works well with a number of other cards such as Castle.

Oh, yes, Balance is the white card to have.

"- yes, it is ok in that case "

Much better than plowsharing them.

yes so crusades are very good, that does not make them gross (or are you using some other meaning of the word gross (I think you are))

yep, every white deck needs one ballance (and the new ballance)

well yah, but I dislike discarding cards (I want to play them) and white is not great at card drawing (green and blue are though)

(actually I beleive that neither ballance nor swords are in the basic set anymore

)

Jon Miller

Urban Ranger · April 25, 2002, 04:50

What I meant by "gross" is you get a lot of power at a low cost. Maybe Castle is not that gross. Just a matter of opinion.

You can play a lot of cards at one shot playing weenie decks.

Jon Miller · April 25, 2002, 05:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
What I meant by "gross" is you get a lot of power at a low cost. Maybe Castle is not that gross. Just a matter of opinion.

You can play a lot of cards at one shot playing weenie decks.

I see, we were using different difintiions

I am not a big fan of castle, too defensive

yes card drawing is important in weeny decks (cause you are playing all your cards)

Jon Miller

Urban Ranger · April 25, 2002, 05:57

Castle is defensive, but can be a very good sideboard card.

I am so sad to see White Knights go. They used to form the cornerstone for my white wennie deck.

Jon Miller · April 25, 2002, 06:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Castle is defensive, but can be a very good sideboard card.

I am so sad to see White Knights go. They used to form the cornerstone for my white wennie deck.

reason why I always play casual (OK, I haven't played for long and don't own any cards, but I am only interested in playing casual)

I like all the fun old cards my freind has

Jon Miller

Urban Ranger · April 25, 2002, 08:12

Some old cards are great. Ancestral Recall for starters

It is amazing that they are up to the 7th edition now

when my newest block is Ice Age and Homelands.

Man I feel like an old fart

Jon Miller · April 25, 2002, 08:21

some cards sucked though

I think that was after ice age maybe (it was arround time of 4th edition, I just don't remember on which side

Jon Miller

Urban Ranger · April 25, 2002, 08:31

There are sucky rare cards in all the editions starting from revised. I am not sure about earlier ones, those cards are such killers.

Chowlett · April 25, 2002, 09:38

By popular demand, my G rares.

Ancient Silverback - 4GG - 6/5 Ape - G: Regen
Elvish Champion - 1GG - 2/2 Lord - All elves +1/+1 & Forestwalk
Elvish Piper - 3G - 1/1 Elf - G, tap: Put a creature card from hand into play
Maro - 2GG - */* Elemental - Power & toughness equal to cards in hand
Thorn Elemental - 5GG - 7/7 Elemental - can deal damage as though not blocked
2x Might of Oaks - 3G Inst - Target creature +7/+7 until eot
Thicket Elemental - 3GG - 4/4 Elem - Kicker 1G: if paid, when comes into play, reveal cards from top of library until you reveal a creature. Put that into play, shuffle other revealed into library.
2x Verdeloth the Ancient - 4GG - 4/7 Treefolk Legend - Kicker X. All other treefolk&saprolings +1/+1. If kicked, put X G 1/1 Saproling Tokens into play
Kavu Lair - 2G - Ench - Whenever creature w. power>=4 into play, its controller draws a card
2x Saproling infestation - 1G - Ench - Whenever a kicker is paid, you put 1/1 G sparoling token into play
Restock - 3GG - Sorc - Return 2 from graveyard to hand. Remove Restock from game.
Gaea's Herald - 1G - 1/1 Elf - Creatures can't be countered by spells or abilities
2x Kavu Mauler - 4GG - 4/4 Kavu - Trample. When attacks, +1/+1 for each other attacking Kavu
Penumbra Wurm - 5GG - 6/6 Wurm - Trample. When put in graveyard, place a 6/6 B wurm token w. Trample into play.
Symbiotic Deployment - 2G - Ench - Skip Draw. 1: tap two untapped creatures you control, Draw.
2x Nantuko Mentor - 2G - 1/1 Insect Druid - 2G, tap: target gets +X/+X, where X is it's power
Nut Collector - 5G - 1/1 Druid - Start of upkeep, may put 1/1 G squirrel token into play. Threshold - all squirrels +2/+2
2x Spellbane Centaur - 2G - 3/2 Centaur - Your creatures cannot be targets of Blue spells/abilities
Stone Basilisk - 4GGG - 4/5 Basilisk - When deals comb. damage to a creature, destroy that creature at end of combat. Thresh - all creatures able to block STB do so.
Zoologist - 3G - 1/2 Druid - 3G, tap: reveal top card of library. If creature, put into play. Otherwise put to graveyard
Bearscape - 1GG - Ench - 1G, remove two cards in graveyard from game: Place a 2/2 green bear token into play
Nantuko Shrine - 1GG - Ench - Whenever spell cast, caster puts X 1/1 green squirrel tokens into play, X is no. of cards in graveyard with same name as spell.
Possessed Centaur - 2GG - 3/3 Centaur Horror - Trample. Thresh - +1/+1, is B, "2B, tap: destroy target G creature"
Insist - G - Sorc - next creature spell you cast this turn can't be countered by spells/abilities. Draw.

In multi-coloured land stake, I forgot about Meteor Crater (1 of any colour of a perm you control), Shivan Reef (colourless; or U/R, 1 damage), Yavimaya Coast (as above, G/U), Darkwater Catacombs (1, Tap: U,B)

I have far too many 4+ commons/uncs to list right now - about 150 types only considering W/G. Free cards are nice...

Velociryx · April 25, 2002, 09:38

Ohhh yeah....the old cards are heinous! Ancestral Recall, Time Twister, Time Vault + Icy Manipulator...ARG....those were da days....

-=Vel=-

MrFun · April 25, 2002, 09:52

I sometimes enjoyed using a deck that used the illegal Icy Manipulator and Winter Orb combo.

Me and my friends did not play by legal tournament rules.

Velociryx · April 25, 2002, 10:19

Hiya Chowlett! While you're cranking out the card list and gearing up to make a wampum bada$$ deck, here are my initial thoughts:

When I started playing, I played VERY competitively, and from a quite limited stock of cards. I don't know how it is today, but when I was playing, we were very serious about ante. In fact, playing for ante was how I acquired about a quarter of the cards in my collection. Highly recommend you take that approach...'s fun....

First: No walls. Some people will argue against this line of thinking, but it's my experience that if you use walls, you sacrifice offensive potential, and you NEED an ace up your sleeve to counter the loss. I'd highly recommend against making use of walls in this deck. In the absence of 4 copies of the power cards you have, you need as much flexibility and options as you can get from every card you draw. Walls don't give you that.

Second: Use the heck out of deck thinning cards. Any card that lets you draw more cards, use it if it's got an ability that will add value to the deck's design. Again, this is to partially circumvent the lack of 4 dupes of many of your cards. More draws = More options.

Third: If you're interested in playing a 3+ color deck, stay well away from cards that cost three *color specific* mana or more. About all you'll do is wind up holding a fistful of cards you don't have the mana to play. You'll choke yourself on your own cards with steep casting costs.

More to come....but chew on those three notions and see how they sit with you....the MOST important things are this: a) That you feel comfortable with the deck, and know EXACTLY how it plays and what it's capable of, and b) That you personally like it. Not much fun playing a deck built around philosophies you don't agree with....

-=Vel=-

Chowlett · April 25, 2002, 10:27

I like your thinking. I've never been particularly fond of walls, except perhaps ... of Swords, which is cheap and effective against flyers. But I agree, walls are essentially wasted space.

I have never used thinners too much - but I see the potential there indeed. Unfortunately, I don't have any kick-ass thinners like, say, a howling mine. I do have a number of cards with "Draw" as part of the rules text.

And yep, I know all about mana screwed - last game I played I had a 65-odd card deck with one third mana - and I had drawn 3 lands in the first 21 cards. Ugh. Colourless is always good

As for style and philosphies - if it helps you, I suppose I play the same way I play SMAC. I'm a builder there, and here I prefer finesse over brute force. I like the theory of no-creature decks, but never got the hang of them. I LOATHE token deck players, they're just so dull.

MtG:Online has no automatic Ante system - how does it work in real life? Does the winner choose one card from the loser's deck, or what?

FrustratedPoet · April 25, 2002, 10:31

also, i would advocate avoiding Creature Enchantments.

There are some that are worth having - Sigil of Sleep comes to mind, and Armadillo Cloak is AWESOME - but in 90% of cases they are just ways to lose card advantage. They can also be too easily dealt with by creature removal or bouncing. Unless the card has 'Draw a Card' or 'May not be the target of Spells or Abilities' in the rules text then it is usually not worth having.

there was an interesting article on this over at www.magicthegathering.com eariler this week (or was it last week?).

try this for starters

Chowlett · April 25, 2002, 10:33

I have an armadillo cloak. In fact, I have 7. For the benefit of Vel:

1GW - Ench Creature - Creature gains +2/+2, trample. Whenever it deals damage, you gain that much life.

FrustratedPoet · April 25, 2002, 10:34

Velociryx · April 25, 2002, 10:40

::nodding:: Yeah, I noticed that you had a number of "play this card and draw" That's good, especially if you are starting from a somewhat limited base. That'll help you speed yourself through to the cards you want...good stuff....

With regards to your personal style then, I'm thinking we're looking at a 2 color deck (White/Green or White Blue?) with a splash of a third (red?) color (make sure any red spells you put in only have a one red mana requirement tho), we'll use some multi-colored mana producing spells, critters, and effects ('specially those disposable artifacts that let you draw more cards....four of those!)...with a good mix of critters, common/uncommon combos where we can find them, and spells/fast effects.

Ideally, most of your cards will cost 1-4 mana to play, with some specialty cards that may be more expensive. This'll give you a fast tempo deck that you can get stuff fielded pretty quickly and reliably....also nice cos by mid-game, you'll have plenty of mana left after your turn for fast effects during your opponent's turn.

And given your builderesque stance, you really wanna consider putting liberal amounts of fast effects IN your deck....the ability to mess with your opponent and potentially stall his attack before it even begins is the virtual equivalant of Builder Style SMACing....

As to ante....when we played, we'd cut to a non-land card (I cut your deck, you cut mine) and set that card aside (it doesn't get played). Winner gets the loser's card.

-=Vel=-

Velociryx · April 25, 2002, 10:41

Armadillo Cloak....a beefed up Spirit Link...use it....

EDIT: In fact, on the basis of that card alone, unless you've got some really heinous blue cards, I'd stick with White/Green (red) as your deck....

-=Vel=-

FrustratedPoet · April 25, 2002, 10:43

wow

I'd be too scared to play games with ante rules ... i just know i'd end up losing my best card ... if i was a little better at the game then that would help, of course

Velociryx · April 25, 2002, 10:47

Heh...yeah, but that's the fun....the risk...I loved it!

-=Vel=-
(who got a Mox Jet that way one time....that was far and away the best ante card I ever got tho...)

FrustratedPoet · April 25, 2002, 10:56

btw, i was browsing this thread and i came across several references to 'Apprentice' ... what this? it sounds like a way to play M:tG over the 'net, how good is it?