Civ3 EXPANSION PACK!!!! - Page 3

Spiffor · May 2, 2002, 01:13

Quote:

Originally posted by LordAzreal
I just hope that Firaxis have been paying attention to the many suggestions posted on forums like this in planning the XP. I'd hate to see how ugly all the post-release ranting is going to be if too many suggestions were ignored.

Anyway, I'm remaining optimistic that many good things will come out of the XP, even if they weren't already suggested on the forums. So long as they allow you to create your own civs without hacking civ3mod.bic with Multitool, I'll be happy with it. If not... then it depends on what they DID do in it.

In the last chat, Soren told me they had so many things to fix, fan's ideas had to be outstanding (his word) to be applied. I still hope there will be an intelligence report about foreign civs. I don't believe there will be unit trading though.

TechWins · May 2, 2002, 01:24

[This is not intended at any one person in particular]

Who cares if any of our suggestions are taken into consideration? I know most of you think that your suggestions are great in all, which some of them are, but you can't expect Firaxis to implement one single suggestion that will be an intrical part of the game. While the suggestion does sound good on paper (figuritively), the suggestion typically is very hard to implement into a game. In fact I hope most of the suggestions on this board don't get accounted for in the XP. The new features I want to see implemented into this game are those that came from the (professional) game designers themselves and the ones that are actually making this game (Soren, Mike...). The employees of Firaxis work for a game company for a reason, and most of us that aren't employees for a game aren't an employee for a game company for a reason. Hopefully Firaxis used their intellect on this one, and only took moderate consideration of what our wants are for major game features in terms of implementation. However, I hope Firaxis did take strong consideration into what our desires are for improvements to key aspects of the game, but not neccasarily the way these things should be implemented into the game.

Don't get me wrong, though, I think small suggestions on small aspects of the game are great. The small suggestions on the small aspects are probably 'a matter of taste aspects', and the fans giving their opinion on what is better is helpful for Firaxis.

So all in all, game breaking features of the game should be left up to Firaxis and our small suggestions on the game should have some effect on the small aspects of the game. Still, though, all of our changes we wish to see should have some token of meritt to Firaxis. Does everybody agree with me on this one?

[/This is not intended at any one person in particular]

Again as I stated before, [B]Firaxis has done absolutely nothing wrong by selling MP in an expansion pack. Hey by doing it they will be reaping even more benefits, so in actuallity this was a very smart move for them while probably not intentional (deadlines!).

Quote:

Turnless multiplayer? In a turn based strategy? I have a feeling they mean some sort of simultaneous movement.

Elthered, yes, this is probably exactly what that means. Last summer (I believe Jeff Morris stated this) Firaxis had said that they were working on some 'cool' MP features. They went on to comment about simultaneous MP and how they are trying to find new ways to make MP more innovative. My bet is that this does mean simultaneous MP.

Quote:

(probably) coming out in Dec, about when this'll comes out

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Just hold on there!

That would seriously make me really sad. I've been looking forward to being able to play MP games (via the net and LAN) with my bro this coming up summer all the way since last summer. [Not enough time to play many games during the school year, especially MP] But if waiting till this fall/winter before releasing the XP to have the XP be what it 'could/should be', then I can't complain. It sure would be nice to see the XP this coming up summer. In fact if it does come out this summer I will be buying the XP the day it comes out. Hey I have nothing to lose...$30 is nada for me. But if it's during the winter I'll won't be as eager to buy it so I might wait first to see what the reaction is to it.

bowman · May 2, 2002, 01:27

I don't think people should be too optimistic about the expansion. Just look at what happened with the first release of Civ3. Bugs galore, things missing (i.e. NO EDITOR), and bunch of other stuff that we have been complaining about for months. Since the reason for all that was the greed of Faraxis to get it out as fast as possible, I see no reason why the expansion would be any different. They know scores of people would buy MP no matter what was supposedly promised in addition to that. It'll be buggy, incomplete, not worth the money or all of the above. Faraxis is just another corporation drivem by profits. Maybe they should fix all the bugs in the original and succeeding patches (where is the Mac 1.21f patch dare I ask?) BEFORE they even think about an expansion. I think I'll wait awhile to get it.

asleepathewheel · May 2, 2002, 01:33

Quote:

Originally posted by bowman
I don't think people should be too optimistic about the expansion. Just look at what happened with the first release of Civ3. Bugs galore, things missing (i.e. NO EDITOR), and bunch of other stuff that we have been complaining about for months. Since the reason for all that was the greed of Faraxis to get it out as fast as possible, I see no reason why the expansion would be any different. They know scores of people would buy MP no matter what was supposedly promised in addition to that. It'll be buggy, incomplete, not worth the money or all of the above. Faraxis is just another corporation drivem by profits. Maybe they should fix all the bugs in the original and succeeding patches (where is the Mac 1.21f patch dare I ask?) BEFORE they even think about an expansion. I think I'll wait awhile to get it.

well, we do know that there is now a decent sized beta team in place...

TechWins · May 2, 2002, 01:52

Just to let you know, I'm not trying to defend here, yet, oppose biased comments.

Quote:

I don't think people should be too optimistic about the expansion. Just look at what happened with the first release of Civ3. Bugs galore, things missing (i.e. NO EDITOR), and bunch of other stuff that we have been complaining about for months.

To tell you the truth Civ3 didn't have many bugs at all. Plus with the patching support Civ3 has had from, yours truly, Firaxis has even deviated more of those bugs. I remember being able to use an editor, even though, the editor did leave a lot to be desired when Civ3 was first released. A bunch of other stuff? Hmmm that sounds interesting. "Firaxis we want a bunch of other stuff

...nothing in particular but just a bunch of other stuff

...we don't know what that other stuff is but we do know that we want other stuff

"...

Civ3 dissapointed me greatly, but a lot of that was due to my excessively high anticipation and expectations. Civ3 was/is a great game (dare I say that), but for many of us we were expecting beyond perfection, so the game is only mediocre or below for us.

Quote:

Since the reason for all that was the greed of Faraxis to get it out as fast as possible,

It is pretty well known that Firaxis had a deadline set by Infogrames for when Civ3 must go gold. That has not been directly proven but I'm wiling to bet that it is true. Plus, even if it were true, Firaxis is a game company trying to make a profit of their product. I can only imagine the feelings you have towards McDonalds!

Quote:

They know scores of people would buy MP no matter what was supposedly promised in addition to that.

I won't disagree with that.

Quote:

It'll be buggy, incomplete, not worth the money or all of the above.

Oh yeah, now that is a fair statement to make. Nor would it be fair for me to say that the XP will be fantastic, completely innovative, orgasmic, etc...

Quote:

Maybe they should fix all the bugs in the original and succeeding patches

What were those three patches for again?

Quote:

where is the Mac 1.21f patch dare I ask?)

I don't know why you have to bring Westlake Interactive into this?

Quote:

BEFORE they even think about an expansion. I think I'll wait awhile to get it.

Okay.

Tiberius · May 2, 2002, 02:03

Great news!

My desire is that along with that strange "turnless" multiplayer, the XP will also have a "hotseat" multiplayer option (please!!!) included, for those who want to play it with the family but don't have 2 or 3 PC's at home.

More civs: does it mean (1) more civs in the same game or (2) more civs to choose from ? My guess is (2).

I was wondering: 8 new civs means a lot of civs with the same combination of special abilities. Are they thinking on adding new special abilities (which one??) or simply the computer, when selecting random opponents, will take care not to choose 2 or 3 civs with the same abilities?

Damn, I can't wait for the official announcement and details!

Edited: ...and yeah, Civ 3 is a great game!

Solver · May 2, 2002, 02:19

I am much satisfied. It seems that there will be plenty of new SP options.

Well, MP could be free, but what the hell. Finally Firaxis announced that new technology of MP, but I got frankly no idea on what that turnless thing is. I don't want Civ as RTS... surely hope PBEM will be there, nonetheless. Any official comment from Firaxis?

notyoueither · May 2, 2002, 02:27

Firaxis hasn't announced diddly.

Gamespot got an info-bite out of an Infogrames guy.

Take it all with a big grain of salt. May I suggest a 10 pound bag?

FrostyBoy · May 2, 2002, 02:37

ppl still complaining, ahh its beautiful, the internet wouldn't be the same without them

me on the other hand am very

8 civs and multiplayer.

FrostyBoy · May 2, 2002, 02:39

oh and 8 civs in this amount of time, thats quite quick, doesn't anyone else think so?

notyoueither · May 2, 2002, 02:39

That's what the bite boils down to.

The Thinker · May 2, 2002, 03:06

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

When you say 'buy', its in quotation marks, which I find to be quite curious. Something tells me that you didn't "buy" the game in the first place. My guess is piracy.

My understanding is bigfree1 returned his copy. I'm sure if he did that he deleted his old copy, and therefore would not be in the market for an expansion.

May 2, 2002, 03:21

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

When you say 'buy', its in quotation marks, which I find to be quite curious. Something tells me that you didn't "buy" the game in the first place. My guess is piracy.

The rest of your post(s) I won't bother responding to other than by saying:

1. Civ1 and 2 mp and a couple other expansions were released long after the original games. SMAX was an expansion. Suprised about a Civ3 XP? For sale? Shocking, just shocking that firaxis would release an xp and have the nerve to sell it.

2. Firaxis is a business. They should be allowed to make business decisions on their own. Just as you have the right not to purchase it if you don't wanto. If they discovered that the cost of making MP was too great to include in the initial release or a patch, should they suck it up and possibly go bankrupt? What would you do if this was your business? Let it go belly up because of a statement misconstrued by a few customers?

I plan on buying the xp. sounds great. new civs added. mp, which Iwill probably try once. sounds good. hopefully new editor functionality. Great. I would pay 30 bucks for that.

First of all I do not 'pirate' anything; second I never said Firaxis doesn't have a right to try and make an honest profit. I'm saying that it wasn't completely honest(selling an XP) in as much as the game was originally touted as having MP capabilities. Are you disputing that fact?

Yes, they changed their minds, but they never said that MP was being completely dropped or that it was being planned for an XP. That being said; what stops one from wondering when MP would be made available as a 'free' add-on. There were numerous post inquiring as to why MP was left out, none, I repeat, none were ever responded too with an answer that alluded to that it would only be included in an XP.

In fact, the way I read the news as it 'leaked' out slowly to this forum was that MP was left out of the initial release because they were having problems with it, not because they thought they could get away with taking it away from the initial release and then offering it in an XP that they could further profit from.

When the 'XP's' for all of the other Civ genre games, they were expected. None of the games were ever planned or even said to have been planned to have MP abilities in the initial release. That was made abundtly clear. It was no "shock" that they were released at a later date at some cost to the consumer, it was expected.

Somehow the people who made Civ 3 didn't have the same vision or the foresight to go along with the same template created by it's predecessors. They seemed to have changed their minds near the completion of the game, it was very near to when the game went gold that the forums sprang news that Civ 3 was missing the MP component. An 'official' announcement of such came much later, if you could call it that.

For Firaxis to not be totally upfront, from the begining, about MP, well, I say it is wrong of them and I do feel cheated.

I guess there was some sort of turnover at Firaxis when the game was being developed that caused most of the confusion but it also seems like the 'good guys' are the ones who left the company.

I'm mad because I feel cheated. I feel that MP should be provided free of charge, that does NOT mean that I will somehow 'pirate' it. It's not kind to impugn the motives of others.

notyoueither · May 2, 2002, 03:33

Don't jump to conclusions either.

Is there a reason why MP cannot be made available without the extra civs and units of the XP?

We're all working up a froth over the miniscule amount of information provide by a single info-bite.

Relax. Gear up for when the b*tchin is justified by reality.

May 2, 2002, 03:35

Thank You, Thinker, that is exactly the case. If MP were a free add-on, I'd re-purchase the game, as it stands; my money stays in my pocket(or soon goes toward the purchase of NWN's, of which MP is out-of-the-box)!

LaRusso · May 2, 2002, 03:36

anything up to 20-30 $ would be no problem
i am having so much fun with 1.21 that complaining about 1.07 air superiority bug would be a crime

btw, i actually had a space RACE in my last game. all 4 remaining civs were building it like crazy, i have beaten them by 2 components. wonder what the xp will be like

morb · May 2, 2002, 04:11

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
MarkG tries to remember the last time in gaming history a patch added multiplayer abilities

ever heard of Deus Ex? Yeah, that game from one of the TRUE game gods of the industry, Warren Spector. Can you remember a single game he messed up? Didn't think so.

I've written off Sid. He had an inormouse impact on the gaming world back around the EGA days. I emphesize HAD. I don't care about the expantion or Sid. My eyes are firmly planted on Brian Raynolds.

And what's all the jazz about v1.21? I played it and it seems to have more bugs and the gameplay is completely the same. The AI still tech whores, the corruption still sucks and adjusting it only gives the AI even more of an advantage. And I wasn't even overzealous with it, I set it at 70% of original and I got the AI building railroads and ironclads in the 1200's. The editor is still a toy. So I don't get it? what's so great?

LaRusso · May 2, 2002, 04:16

Quote:

Originally posted by morb

And what's all the jazz about v1.21? I played it and it seems to have more bugs and the gameplay is completely the same. The AI still tech whores, the corruption still sucks and

it's actually too low for my taste. but you can't please them all, eh?

MarkG · May 2, 2002, 04:29

Quote:

Originally posted by morb
ever heard of Deus Ex?

/me tries to remember a certain saying about exceptions and rules....

ChaotikVisions · May 2, 2002, 04:34

Good thing people come to posts about the expansion to explain why it is/will be bad, and that they aren't buying it. Cause if they didn't, we might not even know!

I don't care much for mp in civ3, good games really just take too long. Besides, I like being able to waste time between turns, not worry about wether Joe Schmoe is getting impatient for his turn. And morb, one more thing, if your getting beat that badly and having the AI build railroads in 1200s, your playing on too high a difficulty level. Warlord seems to best level to learn on, and its what most people I think started on. Though if you still have trouble you could go to Chieftain.

ChaingKaiShek · May 2, 2002, 04:38

of COURSE they are going to make you PAY for the multi-player expansion and of course the added new civilizations and hopefully gameplay changes will be an' added bonus. I mean, this IS the American way afterall, we have to choke every last cent from man woman and child in order to assure the dominance of a capitalist society over the radical idea of communism!

Actually it just helps to assure there is enough profit to warrant a Civ 4 - and you ALL KNOW YOU WILL BUY IT! :P

I personally will buy the expansion pack (Sorry, I wont help out Microsoft by using "XP" instead of expansion pack, we all know that everytime someone sees XP now they want to go out and BUY a microsoft product. It's the first rule of marketing you know, the repeating of the letters "XP" will make everyone want to rush out and buy ANY product with the letters "XP" on it, thus completing the cycle by draining all of your money just so you can have needless shiney object with "XP" labled on them) Because I also, personally like Civ 3 [shameless plug] mainly due to the Balancer Mod by Elucidus and crew [/shameless plug].

Oh well, anyone heard about the 'turnless' multiplayer? That just sounds like a bad idea. heh.

Dont let the man get ya down!

Chaing

lockstep · May 2, 2002, 04:42

Hopefully Firaxis will fix the U.N. victory in the expansion pack.

FrostyBoy · May 2, 2002, 04:47

well considering I am making civ4 and selling it for $2 (thats NZ, so its $1 US), you won't be needing to spend much for Civ4.

FrostyBoy · May 2, 2002, 04:48

what was wrong with the UN victory?

ChaingKaiShek · May 2, 2002, 04:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Sn00py
what was wrong with the UN victory?

The whole idea of world control through peace is the first problem! But actually, the idea of the UN victory was fine, I was happy with it and think that the ending was 'fine' however there should have been nifty movies for ALL victories, then people would not be whimpering as much I think. (CTP II had movies for all victories.)

Oh, and fraxis needs to change the advisors so they SWITCH WITH YOUR GOVERNMENT TYPES!

- instead of just changing with the 'ages'.

Chaing

LaRusso · May 2, 2002, 04:57

UN victory becomes meaningful only if more than 10 civs start the game, otherwise it is too easy.
also, you are absolutely right about the movies

jabroni154 · May 2, 2002, 05:44

I think I am in the wait and see camp. I bought Civ3 right away and I was quite disappointed (especially with the air superiority bug

).

I have been quite impressed with the level of patching and the responsiveness of the folks at Firaxis to the forums. So, I am hoping they will do a thorough beta test and release a winner right away so I can end up picking myself up a copy.

UltraSonix · May 2, 2002, 06:10

Humm decided to check Apolyton since I heard of the new expansion pack...

I guess mayeb I shoudl mention that I've never played Civ2 multiplayer, even though I went and bought it... I was never into it

Maybe "turnless" multiplayer will do the trick for me - I get the feeling that it might also actually encourage some other new people to play Civ3, actually. People who are a bit apprehensive of TBS and can try some "turnless" civ3 before they dive into the full TBS experience.

[old memories]
hahahaha I remember way before Civ3 was released some of us was arguing what it should be like - and I distinctly remember that there was someone/some people arguing hard for Civ3 to be an RTS. Well whoever it was, I hope you are laughing now

[/old memories]

Cesa · May 2, 2002, 06:44

UltraSonix, regarding you sig, neither do polar bears walk the streets in Sweden

And I really hope the vikings are one of the new civs, then I'll rule the world for real

MidKnight Lament · May 2, 2002, 07:28

Quote:

Originally posted by notyoueither
We're all working up a froth over the miniscule amount of information provide by a single info-bite.
Relax. Gear up for when the b*tchin is justified by reality.

Agreed. Glad to see some people on here can still maintain perspective.