Civ3 EXPANSION PACK!!!! - Page 5

hexagonian · May 2, 2002, 13:02

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
* MarkG tries to remember the last time in gaming history a patch added multiplayer abilities

...CTP1 added PBEM

Barnacle Bill · May 2, 2002, 13:40

Well, before I even fire up the game again (much less spend any more money on it), I'm waiting for them to fix it I don't care what combination of patches & expantions it takes - when I read the game is fixed I'll download the patch(es) and buy the expansion pack(s).

What it will take to fix the game:

1) Hard borders - can't cross without declaring war first. I'm sick of being unable to defend my territory against my so-called allies.

2) All the missing scenario/mod tools from the final iteration of Civ2 (i.e. ToT) - including the scripting language.

3) Fix the one glaring flaw in Civ2 scenario/mod capabilities - you could not restrict an advance to certain civs unless you also prevented any negociation between civs that are supposed to be ble to get it and civs that are not, because if they could talk they would trade it.

player1 · May 2, 2002, 13:43

SMAC added PBEM & Hotseat in patches.

MarkG · May 2, 2002, 13:44

hex, ctp1 already had multiplayer out of the box. it didnt have pbem, but it had mp...

Solver · May 2, 2002, 14:10

Yeah, Markos, this is an unique case.

Brutus66 · May 2, 2002, 14:37

Quote:

Great, now you can pay for features that should've been in the frigging game out of the box.

Venger is absolutely right.

I never stop being amazed at the foolishness of the average consumer. Take major league baseball for example- the cost of tickets and concessions has skyrocketed, and everbody knows what the players are being paid. A lot of them are multimillionaires. And I ask myself why these guys are rewarded like this. They really haven't made any real contibution to the human condition. They aren't curing cancer, creating peace in the middle east, etc. And yet the fans can't hand their money over fast enough. When you add in the price of parking, how can anybody afford to take the kids to the games anymore? But they keep on paying.

So I really shouldn't be surprised when I see all of the posts from folks who are going to rush right out and plunk their money down on the expansion pack of this game as soon as it hits the shelves. Hell, I'm sure there are those idiots who will steal a march on the others by pre-ordering their copy.

Capitalism is based on the consumer's willingness to pay. That system worked great in the old days, but now - it seems to me, anyway- there is a lot of consumer irresponsibility. We have gotten accustomed to paying big bucks for inferior products. You can see it everywhere- look at automobiles and housing, just for example. When you bought a car in the forties or fifties, you bought something manufactured to last. It was made of geniune steel and had plenty of room- it wasn't a plastic and aluminum box that will dent if you look at it too hard.
We will pay good money for anything these days- how else do you explain the success of the Spice Girls and N'Sync? The pet rock? Designer drinking water? Seems that the general intelligence level of the whole planet has hit a low that hasn't been seen since we became multicellular creatures.

I can't help but feel disappointed with Civ 3 when I compare it to Civ 2. Civ 2 was a really good game for it's time, even if it left out multiplayer. The designers of Civ 3 stood on the shoulders of those who came before, and still managed to release a product that disappointed and disaffected a lot of the fan base.

I can't help but feel that I am being screwed when they try to charge me again to get multiplayer functionality. Sid did it before with Civ 2, so again I shouldn't be surprised. But I am not going to pay this time. Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent. At this juncture.
I fully expect the rah-rah brigades to flame me and shout me down, label me a 'whiner', etc., so fire away; do your worst. Go ahead and whiz your money down the side of your leg if it makes you feel better. The memory of the limited edition rip-off and all the bugs that were in the initial release of this game still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I am going to sit this one out on the sidelines- I think I am going to wait to spend any more cash until another company takes a stab at this genre. Hopefully it will be from a development team with some enthusiasm and fresh ideas. The civilization-type game is far and away my favorite genre, and I continue to hope...

Shadowlord · May 2, 2002, 15:02

I'll buy the expansion...

When the price has dropped to $5. I don't believe Infogrames deserves to profit from their attempts to rip off the Civ community. Don't reward them for shipping a buggy, incomplete game, which lacked many of the features they promised.

Actually, I'm giving Firaxis the benefit of the doubt, by assuming that it's Infogrames that is pulling the strings, and by assuming that Infogrames forced Firaxis to release Civ3 before it was ready, and is forcing Firaxis to release an expansion rather than simply adding the missing features in a patch! My hope would be that Firaxis will release a multiplayer-only patch for the original Civ3. (And the patch wouldn't include the new civs, etc, which the expansion would.)

Spatzimaus · May 2, 2002, 15:13

What I'm REALLY hoping for is an engine code change that allows it to recognize icons placed in the appropriate directories (for units, techs, splashes, etc.), with no hard-coded 82-slot limits or the need to be added to a specific .pcx file. That way, they can include libraries of new icons for different settings, and allow players to do the same.

I like the idea of the 8 new civs as long as they add a new civ trait. Seafaring would be nice (free Harbor in every coastal city, +1 move to all boats), or Agricultural (adds food in the same way that Industrious adds shields, Irrigate in one turn). Diplomatic could be useful (+10% to the value of your side of the table when trading with the AI, and free Embassies once you get the tech). Personally I'd go with Seafaring since I think the naval system needed the most work.

As for which civs, one thing you need to check is the list of Barbarian tribes. If something is listed as a possibility there, it wouldn't be important enough to count. My guesses (and I'm assuming Seafaring is a new trait):
Vikings (Seafaring/Militaristic)
Spanish (Seafaring/Industrious)
Turks (Commercial/Expansionist)- Ottoman?
Incas (Religious/Expansionist)
Phoenicians (Seafaring/Commercial)
Atlantis (Seafaring/Scientific); okay, not likely, but it'd be neat. Crete maybe?
and two more civs that'd have to double up on abilities, but I can't think of any good ones. Europe's already too crowded, and if you add Arabs or Assyria, they'd be right on top of Babylon or Egypt on an Earth map.

They could alter the traits of some old ones:
English (Seafaring/Expansionist)
Japanese (Seafaring/Religious)

centrifuge · May 2, 2002, 15:44

I want to see the Mongols, otherwise I don't really care about the xp.

centrifuge · May 2, 2002, 15:45

Oops I take that back, it will be nice to have scenarios as well, and not just custom maps.

JtheJackal · May 2, 2002, 16:31

Come on people! The Koreans are going to be in!

SirSebastian · May 2, 2002, 16:34

Turks

Ottomans

Byzantines

When will people actually learn what went on in history? =P

PS - Civ III rules... the post on the downfall of capitalism because we buy inferior products is particularly hilarious. Talk about no perspective on recent history.

The Rook · May 2, 2002, 16:38

I'm just waiting to see what other features are going to be implimented. Multiplayer, new scenarios, and an editor are not really stuff I am willing to pay for. The 8 new civs sounds promising, but still that's not enough to whet my appitite. I would definitely go for a future era, or such gameplay changes like civil war and/or more in depth diplomacy options. We shall see what Firaxis has in store for us. I'm sure I will eventually buy it, but it's a matter of when I will buy it. It may turn out to be a "bargain bin" buy.

civman2000 · May 2, 2002, 17:09

Quote:

When will people actually learn what went on in history? =P

What's wrong with the turks?

Spatzimaus, I think free harbors in every city might be a bit TOO advantageous...

Steve Clark · May 2, 2002, 17:10

"New scenarios" imply that there were "old" scenarios, as someone had said. I certainly hope that they don't call custom maps and hacks/mods - scenarios for we have not seen a single scenario created yet for Civ3, from Firaxis or from the scenario community. If this XP includes a scenario editor (unlike the rules editor we have now) and MP, then my and number of other's prediction have come true. We'll wait and see.

Jamski · May 2, 2002, 17:19

What worries me, is advailability in Europe, I mean it was months after the US release before I could get civ3 in Germany, and I finally got the US (import) version, which is cool, although post patch the editor is half in German and half in US English which is weird, anyway if anyone knows a good (cheap) way of getting XP import within a week of release in South Germany, I for one, would be very interested to hear from them

-Jam

Cesa · May 2, 2002, 18:11

Quote:

Originally posted by War of Art
What worries me, is advailability in Europe, I mean it was months after the US release before I could get civ3 in Germany, and I finally got the US (import) version, which is cool, although post patch the editor is half in German and half in US English which is weird, anyway if anyone knows a good (cheap) way of getting XP import within a week of release in South Germany, I for one, would be very interested to hear from them

-Jam

The german version is translated right? I guess that's why it takes so long for it to get released. It seems that you are ok with buying it in english, so I suggest you buy it from another EU country, the shipping will probably be cheaper and faster within EU.

In Sweden the games usually are released pretty soon after the US release, I guess it's the same for all EU contries that doesn't translate the games.

Jamski · May 2, 2002, 18:24

Cesa - do you have an Address for these Swedish guys. I should try to get the US Xp to match what I have. Don't wanna cause any problems with mixed versions...

-Jam

Powerslave · May 2, 2002, 18:30

I think Fireaxis and many other companys hold back many of the features in the original package for an excuse to sell the game again with the 'new' features. That is smart and creative marketing and we the consumers as the suckers we are will pay for the new expansion pack anyway.

With that said... yes regrettably I am one of those suckers and I will probably buy the expansion pack.

star mouse · May 2, 2002, 20:11

You could always wait a month or two before buying the XP, when it is likely to be cheaper.

Jethro83 · May 2, 2002, 20:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Powerslave
I think Fireaxis and many other companys hold back many of the features in the original package for an excuse to sell the game again with the 'new' features. That is smart and creative marketing and we the consumers as the suckers we are will pay for the new expansion pack anyway.

With that said... yes regrettably I am one of those suckers and I will probably buy the expansion pack.

I am also one who just has to buy expansion packs. I may be a student and to an extent, a socialist, but I'm not a tightass, and I want the best gaming experience possible. If that means forking over $AU49.95 for an expansion set, so be it.

Jethro83 · May 2, 2002, 20:58

Quote:

Originally posted by star mouse
You could always wait a month or two before buying the XP, when it is likely to be cheaper.

That's the attitude I had about SMAX. But look what happened. By the time I was ready to buy it... IT VANISHED WITHOUT A TRACE!!! Due to that experience, I rush over to buy XPs nearly as soon as they're released. This is because in a month or two, they might no longer be available.

Venger · May 3, 2002, 00:06

Quote:

Originally posted by LaRusso

wow, venger is back with a vengeance
good to know that there IS a game that passes his stringent tests. i did not doubt it's the same game that have put me to sleep many many times...

Well, what I noticed about SMAC was - first, that Civ3 blatantly piggybacked the game engine. I mean blatantly. I bet if you could ever pull the source you'd have the proof that 50% was lifted clean.

Next - options. So many options. There are four options for social engineering in 4 categories. And that's after choosing one of what, 8 factions? So, you have 256 basic options. That's kicks the high holy hell out of the joke Civ3 ruling options.

Next - more options. Units have so many more options than in Civ3. Yikes almighty.

Next - smooth. The game WORKS smoothly. Menus are quick, clean, to the point. Civ3 is bloatware.

Alas, I didn't come in here to compare the two of them. Just to see what the lackeys think of the 'expansion pack', which ought to rightfully be called Civ3 1.0 (I thought the patch was, but it ain't...).

Venger

Spock · May 3, 2002, 00:40

Quote:

bloatware.

ewwww...bloat.

kring · May 3, 2002, 01:27

I am guessing the cost will be more like $40-50 US. Also, likely it will not be a stand alone program. And if it is stand alone, then most definitely $50.

Why haven't we heard from Firaxis, since they do visit here frequently? Neither have they been seen at CF last time it was up. Leastwise in responding to comments about the new release.

If there were one or more new traits, I doubt they would give free anything as major as improvements. Cheaper builds for certain improvements.

I bought Civ 3 based on all these great reviews from gaming mags, not knowing the truth about such reviews.

The exception to the rule is a fallacy BTW. Otherwise, there would have to be an exception to that exception, creating a paradox.

Firaxis has been less than forthcoming about a lot to the point of being misleading at best, encouraging bad feelings among those of us who spent $30-50 or more for their product.

As has been asked before, why not tell us MP would cost extra?

Hurricane · May 3, 2002, 01:38

Seafaring sounds as a reasonable trait. Maybe reduced cost for harbors and +1 to sea movement. Could have a big impact on those Galley rushes over the seas.

markusf · May 3, 2002, 01:55

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkG
* MarkG tries to remember the last time in gaming history a patch added multiplayer abilities

Heros of might and magic 4.

MarkG · May 3, 2002, 01:56

Quote:

As has been asked before, why not tell us MP would cost extra?

can you answer a question about the cost of a product that you dont know if it will exist?

MarkG · May 3, 2002, 02:07

Quote:

Heros of might and magic 4

the only downloads i see on the official site are 2 wallpapers
http://www.3do.com/mightandmagic/heroes4/downloads.html

marc420 · May 3, 2002, 02:23

Don't encourage game companies to rip you off!

If you want to put an end to this foolishness where...

a) a game so buggy as to be almost unplayable is rushed out the door for Christmas. Lots of idiots buy it. (including one family member who gave it to me as a gift).

b) three to four months later they finally get the game patched to the point where it doesn't crash constantly on my otherwise very stable computer system.

c) then, they announce that they want another big chunk of money from everyone to pay for

1) 'features' like multiplayer that are consider standard in the rest of the gaming industry.
2) some new civilizations that sound like mods you can either download off the internet or create yourself if you've just been dying to play some civ that isn't in the game.

So what, are you going to run out and chuck another $30 to this company for stuff that should have been in the original game and stuff that you could download off the internet.

Firaxis has been treating its customers like some warmed over cow-patty throughout Civ3. And if you want any respect from them or any decent treatment from them in the future, then what needs to happen is that when they release this patch, absolutely no one buys it.

Let them sit there during the day and get reports back that they sold maybe 5 copies of this patch (and I say patch cause that's really what this is), then maybe they'll sit back and start rethinking what they are doing.

If you all run out like a bunch of sheep and hand them your money, then they'll laugh, pat themselves on the back, and then start planning on how to rip you off even more in Civ4.

Maybe they'll take the whole Diplomacy section out of the first release of Civ4 and make you buy an expansion pack to get it later on next time.

Send Firaxis a message, don't buy this Expansion Pack