design versus coding

[Kinjiru]

Dammit Vel, I hate you!

Got tired of waiting for more news here, so I checked out the forum for Humanitas. Got tired of waiting for more news there, so I....




...reinstalled SMAC.


Now I am working on four hours sleep over five days and my work productivity has dropped to nothing. And it's ALL YOUR FAULT!

Seriously though, glad to see some progress is being made. Just remember, when shipping coding duties off-shore, you will get back exactly what you asked for in your detailed design documents. Exactly. Hope you haven't left anything at all open to interpetation, otherwise, you will have to perform a pretty thorough gap analysis and resubmit for additional development, delaying a playable version even further.

Which will serve merely to drive your rabid public into higher and higher states of frenzy! But I am sure you thought of everything... you did change unlist your phone number and change residences, right?

[Velociryx]

My work here is done!

And no worries...as to that coder...I'm in regular contact with him, so any questions or snags, we'll address them immediately!

-=Vel=-

[TCO]

bullshit

[Kinjiru]

Originally posted by TCO
bullshit

And the point of that enlightening post was what exactly?

[TCO]

words don't match actions?

[Velociryx]

Had more setbacks than we ever anticipated we would, not the least of which were a pair of heart attacks. It seems that my ticker is not what it once was.

So yeah...there's been precious little news presented publically.

But we're still making regular posts behind the scenes, and doing what we can do, as I, being the lead on the project, slog thru paying medical bills associated with the heart attacks (this being the reason that we had to temporarily stop paying a coder after six months worth of coding).

Should be back on the straight and narrow soon tho....have begun making a good dent in the heart surgery bills.

More news when there's more news.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

In an attempt to address at least some of your possible comments in reply, there's more to say here.

I realize that it's not terribly "professional" to allow one's own personal life and/or medical condition to creep into the picture. That should not, in a "professional venture," alter in any way, the plan or the eventual outcome OF the venture proposed.

In this case, however, the success or failure of this project is at least somewhat dependant on my continued good health, and in fact, in some ways, is intimately tied to my health.

Not every aspect of the project, to be sure. Hex has continued to crank out artwork, even during lulls in other areas of the project, at a prodigious rate, and that fact has been inspirational to me, prompting me to get my butt in gear, even during times when I wasn't feeling particularly creative--and at least twice when I was feeling about as creative as a bale of Constantine Wire.

Nonetheless, since this project is being led by me, the coding aspect being FUNDED by me privately, and the framework of the world that the game is set in being written and designed by me, one painfully scribed word at a time (this is actually an over-simplification, as there have been notable and important contributions by other writers, but it is fair to say that some 90% of the written material for the game has come from yours truly), I think it's safe to say that there are largish segments of the project that are dearly dependant, and closely tied to my own health and well being.

Sadly, that well-being hasn't been so good of late, and while I'm sorry for it, and the further delays that it has caused the project, I don't think that anyone here, team member or casual reader, would suggest with any seriousness that I NOT get the heart surgery or the cardiac therapy, so I could save funds to continue paying the coder and keep the project moving foreward.

Based on the earlier assumption that my health may be important to the project, then one could assume (with a fair degree of certainty) that my death (made somewhat more likely by blissfully ignoring the fact of two heart attacks) might derail the project indefinitely.

This is not something I wish to see, and so I considered it an act of prudence to bite the bullet and pay those medical bills, even if it meant a further delay in the project.

And....if you're inclined to believe that this too is "bullshit" or an excuse, I will happily re-post the pictures of the arteries affected, both before and after the surgery, as proof of my words.

-=Vel=-

[hexagonian]

You have your answer troll...

now go crawl back under your rock.

[Kinjiru]

Vel - responding like a true professional

Hex - responding with venom




Seriously guys, don't even waste your energy on those with negative attitudes. Optimism is contagious, though so is pessimism. Keep plugging away when you can, your fanbase certainly isn't going to depart.

[Velociryx]

Thanks, brother Kinjy.

And to give you a better sense of what we've been doing in the interim, I've been writing my fingers off.

I decided that the game wasn't the ONLY form of expression that the world of Candle'Bre could (or should) take, and to that end, have begun work on a trilogy of books to tell the story of the assassination of the King that opens the game, and of the war that followed it.

So far, book one of the trilogy has been completed, and preliminary work has begun on book two. In addition, we've got enough material in the form of short stories, historic notes, and the like, to create "volume I" of a "collected short stories" book, to be called "Tapestry Vol. I, Collected Threads"

While the first book in the trilogy is complete (pending some edits to tidy it up), the short fiction compilation is only about 85% complete, with the rest to follow shortly.

What this does, in terms of the game world, is lend it an incredible amount of depth, as it allows me as an author to explore the key characters and primary figures of the story....learning more about what drives them, the motivations behind some of their decisions, and so forth.

All of this can only help to enrich the game, and as such, I consider it time well spent.

Hex has already come up with covers for the books, but we're not planning to release them until the trilogy itself is complete....yet another long-term project then, but one that's both immensely satisfying, and a means of carrying on, even while continuing to slog thru the medical bills in preparation for re-starting the code-paying process....

-=Vel=-

[Kinjiru]

I truly don't know how you do it man. The quantity of your output, in it's many forms, is just staggering.

Soldier on my good-man!

[TCO]

I'm not surprised.

But of course I wish you the best, always have, blabla. All that said...you'd do better and be truer by listening to me vice spinning BS dreams like vanity published novels.

[Velociryx]

Kinjy - When it's closer to time, and the books themselves are released, I hope you will enjoy!

GP, or TCO as you style yourselves nowadays - What would you have me apologize for? Take your pick:

* Heart attacks, and the delays they caused (already apologized once, will gladly do so again if you like)

* NOT working on this project for the money, but for its own sake, and for the enjoyment I am, and continue to get out of it (this, as opposed to doing it primarily for the money, which would mean sacrificing both quality and the fun I've had during the process)

* The length of time it has taken to complete the (volunteer) project

* The fact that it (this project) is not being done "just as TCO would have done it."

* Something else that I missed (you will need to fill in the blank here, as I fear that my mind-reading skillz are not as "mad" as they used to be)

I particularly like the term you used. "Vanity publishing." Isn't it intriguing that if someone rents a building and puts all the fixtures and supplies in place to open say, a flower shop, we specifically DO NOT refer to their operation as a "vanity florist" operation, but when someone goes to the time and effort (easily on par with the effort taken by the hypothetical florist above, and probably far surpassing) dares to find a way other than pandering to, and laying prostrate before the all-mighty publisher, then suddenly they're a "vanity" outfit.

I wonder...when Stephen King published his short story (I forget the title) outside traditional channels (pdf, via electronic download only), was that "a vanity" as well, or is it somehow exempt because he has, in the past, pandered to the publisher?

Whichever answer you choose, you have clearly demonstrated, with your previous post, the vast power that the publishers of the world posess. Sufficient even to ascribe a commonly accepted, derisive term to what might otherwise be seen as capitalism at its finest.

In part then, you have only strengthened my argument and my position, and I thank you for it!

-=Vel=-

EDIT: At the end of the day, I guess the key difference, and the thing that seems to chaffe at you for some reason I can't quite comprehend, is that I judge my own successes by my accomplishments, either fully on my own:

* SMAX Guide
* Guardians
* Five Days in May
* Candle Light and Shadow Magic
* Gypsy Rain

or in the company of others:

* The Courts of Candle'Bre (computer game)
* Darkness Falls (the completed first book in the CB trilogy)
* Tapestry (the short fiction compilation)
* Here there Be Dragons (board game I made with Hex)

and you seem to wish me to judge (or justify?) my successes with corresponding dollar signs.

I would simply point to the above as being all the proof I need.

Each item above is (or was) its own project, and each item on that list is, I feel, a successful project, CB included, although we are not yet finished. If we stopped here and now, I would mark it as a success, and one of the most rewarding, rampantly creative periods in my entire life.

If you disagree, then I think it's fair to ask the question "and where is your list?"

I mean, it's easy to criticize from the galley, is it not? It's easy to belittle, especially if you have no direct experience with just how grueling a thing (like the creative process, for example) can be, yes?

You know me, and you've been watching this adventure (misadventure?) unfold since day one, so you already know that I'm not talking about criticism in the general sense of the word. A quick review of the threads in this forum will reveal that I have never bitten anyone's head off for having a different opinion about what the game (or the game world) should, or could be. In fact, an enormous number of suggesstions born RIGHT HERE have altered my thinking a great deal, and many of the ideas presented here by other folks have made it into the very fabric of the game world at the bedrock level.

I believe that's pretty compelling proof that I'm not exactly closed-minded to different viewpoints or ideas.

But that's not really what you're talking about, is it?

What you're talking about cuts to the core of the very motivational reasons behind doing the project in the first place, and because my reasons are not what yours would be, you seem to regard mine with hostility and derision.

That's why I think my question is a fair one.

My list of creative achievements is above.

Yours?



-V.

[TCO]

bla bla. Excuses, excuses. It worked out just like I said. Well...you can always go for the late night real estate no money down scheme...

[Velociryx]

I'm not sure if "heart attack" really counts as an "excuse."

If it does in your book, I would hypothesize that there may well be some priorities out of whack somewhere?

Key points you seem to have forgotten:

* We're a volunteer project (not entirely accurate, since we have paid for code work in the past, and as soon as I get the money sorted out, we'll be doing so again)

* We're not in it for the money, but for the community, the spirit of creativity, the experience, and the love of the process and the game.

and perhaps most importantly:

We are still here

Your prediction was that we'd never accomplish anything and we'd die out like GG&S and so many others.

Given that this has not yet occurred, I think that you are perhaps a bit premature in your victory dance.

Speaking of excuses tho, yours was a pretty decent dodge. My hunch is that it was issued because your "list" doesn't have much on it?

This too, is only a hypothesis, however.

-=Vel=-

[TCO]

you weren't getting it done, regardless. I've been right on target with my predicitons.

So...yes...the heart attack is an excuse.

[Velociryx]

I remember those predictions.

Let's see:

* We wouldn't accomplish anything (wander in the wilderness for years, a la Free Civ)

Status: We have a working prototype that's kept in-house, and are working toward something with sufficient polish to release. In the meantime, the work on the game has already spawned two book-length works (one novel and one compilation), with two more planned.

Conclusion: The prediction has not come to pass.

* We'll make some noise, and then disappear quietly like GG&S

Status: We are still here, and still working at it.

Conclusion: The prediction has not come to pass.

* Our refusal to use project management tools, set arbitrary deadlines, and give out hard numbers will doom us.

Status: As above, we are still here.

Conclusion: The prediction has not come to pass.

Did I miss any?

Much as it chaffes at you, we haven't died out.

Much as you would like to call a heart attack (two of them, actually), an excuse, deep down, you know it isn't.

Don't you?

-=Vel=-

[TCO]

bullshit...it turned out like I said.

[Velociryx]

read above. were those not YOUR predictions? Did I miss any?

-=Vel=-

[TCO]

you're a bullshitter. how many deadlines have you missed? you don't have squat and that's what I predicted.

[Velociryx]

Deadlines?

You know firsthand, having repeatedly asked for deadlines, that I don't set them.

I've refused to set them from the start, because we don't work that way.

It might not suit you, but that is, in fact, the lay of the land.

So to answer your question.....none.

I haven't missed any deadlines, because I haven't SET any deadlines.

I see that you're artfully dodging MY questions, however.

I'll make it very simple for you.

You keep saying you have a better vision of what this project could be, and how it should be run.

Perfect.

Sign on.

The job's yours if you will but take it.

Help us.

Be the project lead and marshal us some coding resources to get us across the finish line.

Prove yourself correct.

Or....barring that, at least have the good graces to tell me what (if any) of your prognostications I failed to include in my list, cos of the ones I highlighted earlier, you're batting exactly zero.

So what'll it be?



-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

I've been working on this project since May 5th, 2002.

That was the date of the very first post in our CB forums here, and seems like a good date to use as the date of the project's inception.

In a couple months, that will make the project four years old.

Four years, and nothing released to the public.

That's what you mean when you say what you say.

But of course, that does not mean that we haven't done anything. In truth, a *tremendous* amount of work has been done, but because we haven't put something in your hands, you don't want to hear about the successes.

In a way, I can't blame you.

You're right.

We set out to deliver a computer game, and we haven't done that yet.

Of course, we ARE still active, and despite the setbacks, we ARE still working.

Add to that the fact that I've said from day one that the game will be finished when it's finished, and have shied away from giving a more specific timetable than that.

And, our little project has had more than its share of mishaps, including losing our first and second code leads, acquiring a third, and then having to suspend payments for the code on account of heart surgery.

So...the project as a whole has seen setbacks, and real life has happened to ALL the volunteers on the project at one point or another.

During the life of the project so far, my own catastrophe list has included:

* Eleven months of unemployment
* Babysitting my neurotic cousin for several months
* Three hospitalizations and near-death experiences
* My house flooding twice
* My grandfather's' death by complications arising from stroke
* My father's suicide
* A pair of nasty car accidents

and several others besides.

If you surmise that the above just might be slightly detrimental to one's focus and creativity, I assure you that you would be correct, and yet....we carried on, because that's what we do.

We're still here, despite all that.

Having said that, perhaps you're right.

Perhaps I'm not the best person to lead us across the finish line.

I've got the persistence for it, but maybe there's something missing.

Something lacking.

Anyway, if you'd like to take a crack at it, you are more than welcome to.

-=Vel=-

[Kinjiru]

He is never going to step up Vel. He is not interesting in helping, or even being creative at all. All he wishes to do is drag you down to his own level of failure.

/ignore TCO
/ignore [ *
FROM user
WHERE user.ip_address = [SELECT user.ip_address
FROM user
WHERE user.name = "TCO"]
]


Aaaaahhhhhhhhhhh, that is so much better. Silence can certainly be golden...

[hexagonian]

One final thought...

TCO
I pity you and anyone who has any sort of social contact with you. Obviously, you have some sort of deficiencies, and it is my hope that you will seek out the professional help you so sorely need.

Help is out there if you just take the time to look...

[TCO]

Vel:

I wish you the best with your health and with rest of your life.

[Velociryx]

Thanks man....and I'm guessing this means you are unable to assist us with the PM work?

If so, I completely understand, and we'll have more to report once we get back to paying a coder.

-=Vel=-

[JustinSane]

I just want to say I've got the utmost admiration for your continuing optimism and creativity and I can't wait for the game to come out. I wish you all the best, as it relates to this project and to life. Ignore jerks.

[Velociryx]

Thanks Justin.

I think that this will probably be the last major project I ever undertake, so as you can imagine, I've got a lot riding on its completion.

That's how I know we'll get there....

-=Vel=-

[fed1943]

"It is easy to critizise from the gallery";I will do that right now:So,you are spending your money,your time,your energy while your health is poor,all that for a free project,and still feel the need to explain that you need your money for taking care of your health?Are you crazy,my friend?
I am happy to see you posting.And don't forget: primum vivere,deinde philosophare.
Ave atque vale,Velociryx

[Velociryx]

Crazy? Probably so, Master Fed.....probably so.

And thank you.

-=Vel=-