Lighthouse.

markusf · May 6, 2002, 01:37

Today in a game with eyes i built the lighthouse.. For some reason it seemed nearly impossible to sink eyes ships with vet tirimes.

Image my shock when i finally won a battle and it said your ship is now vet after i won.. Has anyone ever seen the lighthouse build non vet ships??????????? I built 6 ships after i built light house and only 4 where vet.. The other 2 where somehow non vets in the battle zone.

finbar · May 6, 2002, 03:33

Never heard of it. Sounds like the Lighthouse effects couldn't possibly have expired.

Alexander's Horse · May 6, 2002, 06:30

Uh Oh - looks like Eye's modified rules.txt may have struck again

Could we have an explanation please Sean?

rah · May 6, 2002, 08:28

Never had that happen either. I doubt a rules.txt change could make it random AH.

Never miss a chance to stir it up.

But I have had ships built the same turn as Lighthouse not be vets because those cities built first. Until I thought about it, I wondered too.

RAH

Ming · May 6, 2002, 08:56

Ditto what rah said...

I have been surprised to see non vet ships when I had lighthouse, but then I remember that they were built BEFORE I had lighthouse...

Alexander's Horse · May 6, 2002, 09:02

Another option is Markusf is clutching at straws, equally delicious

The random thing is possible I suppose but would be disappointing

DrFell · May 6, 2002, 09:28

Quote:

Originally posted by markusf
Today in a game with eyes i built the lighthouse.. For some reason it seemed nearly impossible to sink eyes ships with vet tirimes.

Image my shock when i finally won a battle and it said your ship is now vet after i won.. Has anyone ever seen the lighthouse build non vet ships??????????? I built 6 ships after i built light house and only 4 where vet.. The other 2 where somehow non vets in the battle zone.

Excuses excuses

SlowwHand · May 6, 2002, 09:36

It is odd, therefore providing a reason and/or excuse.

rah · May 6, 2002, 09:43

Quote:

Originally posted by markusf
Today in a game with eyes i built the lighthouse.. For some reason it seemed nearly impossible to sink eyes ships with vet tirimes.

Image my shock when i finally won a battle and it said your ship is now vet after i won.. Has anyone ever seen the lighthouse build non vet ships??????????? I built 6 ships after i built light house and only 4 where vet.. The other 2 where somehow non vets in the battle zone.

It's hard to accept a claim of "NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE" when you only had 4 vet ships. Not enough of a sample.

RAH

Alexander's Horse · May 6, 2002, 10:05

Who is hosting?

Eyes_Of_Night · May 6, 2002, 11:35

I'm hosting and what markus forgets is that veteran ships have an attack of 1.5 and a defense of 1. That's only a .5 higher attack than regular triemes. And if you're trying to say I edited the rules.txt to make the effects of lighthouse expire early, that's ridiculous. This is just markus trying to find some reason for losing when he had an awesome start and even took my capital.

markusf · May 6, 2002, 13:03

Look, i built the lighthouse at 600 some BC, i had 1 ship built before then and it got destroyed.. The ship in question that i know for an absolute fact (and i have saves) was built around 300 AD and it was non vet. I have those saves because i saved the turn before eyes built the chapel and the turn after.

rah · May 6, 2002, 13:27

Post them for downloading. If I get a chance, I might want to look at them.

RAH

markusf · May 6, 2002, 14:01

3 saves..

140 AD, proving i had no non vet ships in my empire.

360, non vet ship
380, non vet becomes vet.

Ming · May 6, 2002, 14:09

Some one has to say it...

Maybe he bribed a barbarian ship

markusf · May 6, 2002, 14:15

restless tribes on king = no barb ships.

Ming · May 6, 2002, 14:41

Did you bribe any of his

markusf · May 6, 2002, 15:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming
Did you bribe any of his

bribing in all forms is banned.

rah · May 6, 2002, 15:43

No bribing of barbs? hmmmm, never played that.

I'll try to make time to download it when I get home.

Rah

markusf · May 6, 2002, 17:15

Quote:

Originally posted by rah
No bribing of barbs? hmmmm, never played that.

I'll try to make time to download it when I get home.

Rah

Well, since there are no barb ships with those settings you can't bribe them

rah · May 6, 2002, 17:46

Quote:

Originally posted by markusf

Well, since there are no barb ships with those settings you can't bribe them

Didn't realize you were playing those setting.

DOH

RAH

markusf · May 7, 2002, 15:21

So did you look at the saves?

The only thing that i know of that could cause this, is if someone tried to toggle the vet flag for a ship using a hex editor.... But instead he could have screwed up and toggled one of my ships. Unfortunately i didn't save every turn to see if his ships became magically vet

rah · May 7, 2002, 15:39

No, not yet. My daughter has been monopolizing the PC at home chatting with her friends. I highly doubt a hex editor switched yours off instead of his on.

markusf · May 7, 2002, 15:46

Quote:

Originally posted by rah
No, not yet. My daughter has been monopolizing the PC at home chatting with her friends. I highly doubt a hex editor switched yours off instead of his on.

Hes edited units in memory before, so this wouldn't be the first time. There is no other explanation for me having a non vet ship. Just a week or 2 ago, he wanted to test something similar out on the zone. Or i suppose this could be some kind of strange bug that no one has ever heard of before, and has only ever happened to me.

rah · May 7, 2002, 15:56

After all the years I've played, I've seen so many weird things happen, that I'm more likely to believe glitch then cheating. (especially with the way you've discribed this one) I'd want way way more proof before accusing anyone. Which is probably why I don't accuse people often.

RAH
But with rare exception, every weird thing I've seen was replicated in a later game or reported by someone else. I've seen a unit upgraded by leos and remain a vet.

markusf · May 7, 2002, 16:01

If it was any other player i would agree. But with his history of cheating...

I was already getting pretty suspicious when i lost 3 vet ships against 3 of his non vet ships in a row. Thats a virtual imposibility.

In cheat mode i created a line of 20 ships vs 20 non vet ships. 18 times out of 20 the vet ships won.. To win 3 times in a row, the odds are 1/ 10^3 in other words about 1 in 1000 now he claimed in the game while we where playing that his ships became vet after each attack, that would further increase the odds.

rah · May 7, 2002, 16:16

I hope you're not saying that he can influence the combat.
Are you saying he's changing stats on his ships to make them tougher?

With the low attack and defense values of triemes is so low, probability can appear strange especially in only 3 attacks.

When I plan to repel enemy ships I always use two. And in the last or second to last game I was playing with you, I attacked a ship (not your's but yours was right next to it) with a vet ship, (I don't think his was a vet since you had the LH) and drained it down to almost no color but didn't sink it. Sent the second ship (non vet) out and lost even though the other ship had no color. Not deterred, i spent the money and rushed another ship for the next turn since I knew he couldn't move out of range hurt that bad. That ship also lost. That stuff happens.

And yes, Eyes may have a history, but I'd want something a little stronger than that. And if you're that suspicious, I can't believe you weren't saving every turn.

RAH

I'm not defending anyone, just offering other possibilities.

markusf · May 7, 2002, 16:25

I did save afterwards.. But those previous turns where critical to the game. I am saying those attack rolls only make sence when vet ships attack vet ships. And i am saying its possible to change a non vet unit to a vet unit using a editor.. Just like you can create settlars, gold etc. It would also explain why i suddenly had a non vet ship.

rah · May 7, 2002, 16:56

In three attacks, anything is possible, I've seen weirder many times. Still isn't strong enough. Without the prior saves, there's not much to be proved. And I assumed by now someone else would have reported building a non-vet after LH, but I guess it hasn't been long enough. Maybe you should post it in the strat section to see if any of the SPers have experienced it.

Rich

Heck saturday Epik sent vet crusaders against my vet phal fortified on river forest. He attacked two or three times and lost everytime. The next turn I sent my vet crusaders against his vet phal fortified on river forest. Killed three of them and then the subsequent elephants without losing an attacker. Go figure. S**T happens. Not enough attacks for probability to even out.

Eyes_Of_Night · May 7, 2002, 20:12

2/12/2001
"Yup you must be the best, you will only play duels, you will only play on a medium map, and you will only play if you can host, and you will only play if i am not allowed to build a single caravan the whole game. First game we played you had a bunch of free techs, and 2 settlers allowing you to get rep by 2200 bc. All the huts you tripped where tribes or huts on the path to rep. Where as mine where 6 techs to no government, leaving me with a mess till 500 bc both games. I notice that you have 2 icq accounts online a lot, and sometimes 3 online at the same time. I guess all those extra computers really add to your playing ability? Anyways if you played in simul games with 4 or 5 players you might actually learn how to play, and not be the laughing stock of apolyton."

"Hes edited units in memory before, so this wouldn't be the first time. There is no other explanation for me having a non vet ship. Just a week or 2 ago, he wanted to test something similar out on the zone. Or i suppose this could be some kind of strange bug that no one has ever heard of before, and has only ever happened to me."

Anyone see a trend here? Yes, I toggled the veteran flag of your one unit because I saw how crucial that unit was to the game and the entire game hinged on that trieme. I have stolen victory from you time and again markus. Next time I will thwart you by changing the names of your cities so you get confused!! MUWAHAHAHA!!! I'M SO EVIL! Lets go over the excuses used thus far...
1) I was treating the games as practice, I didn't realize they were serious games.
2) I was new to dueling, I had no idea what I was doing.
3) You toggled the veteran flags on my units.
4) You used 2 computers to cheat.
5) My land was horrible.
6) MY huts were horrible.
7) You got republic first.
8) I got tons of techs from huts.
9) You got all the war wonders.
10) You got all the happy wonders.
11) I was banned from using caravans.
12) Your start was too "fantastic".
Did I miss any? Are there any other excuses to use?