Super Apolyton Pack! The Fan's Unofficial Patch.

[Adriano]

Thanks Dan don't worry about it, finally got zip files SAP 2.0.
Sometimes ago I played CTP1 & 2 and I was impressed of the great game possibilities but I was really disappointed with AI behaviour, the WEAKEST I ever met!!!
( Civ 2 AI is better......)
So, I was very suprised to discover someone like you try to mod AI...the REAL challenge!!!.
Thanks you all I'm having a lot of fun and I found only minor bugs!
I would appreciate to understand all the improvements done vs 1.1 original version in order to give a right tribute.
Is it a text file about it??

[Dale]

Adriano:

The only changes made between the old version and V2.0, were all AI/script changes. I updated quite a lot of AI files to bring it up to current standards. I also added in the unit-build changes that I wrote up for the WAW mod. This includes the new AI defense/attack unit-build changer. I also added in AI changes to make it want to settle more. This in turn allows the AI to collect more resources for defense/attack.

Quite simply, half the changes for SAP V2.0, were in military. The other half was to bring the AI up to the level of Cradle and WAW.

I believe that it now makes CTP2 the best damn Civ-game ever.

[Lou Wigman]

A group of us are playing CTP2 on a LAN, with a few beers of course. All of use have played Civ3 and all of us agree that even the un-modded version of CTP2 leaves Civ3 for dead. In multi-play the behaviour of the AI is clearly not as important.

As an aside, there are multiplay problems with the mods. It appears that ModSwapper does not restore all the files. Between our get togethers we play different mods and when we fire up the LAN game we get incompatibility problems. At this stage we have no idea which files are reponsible. We have to do a fresh 'Install' each night to make sure our respective files are identical. Nasty that.

[Dale]

Lou:

Sometimes I've found that files like GreatLibrary.txt, gamefile.txt and a few others don't update between MODs. My suggestion is to load ModSwapper and open the vanilla CTP2 (the original settings), come out of CTP2, then load ModSwapper and select the MOD to play. It works for me anyways.

[TheArsenal]

Originally posted by Dale
Quite simply, half the changes for SAP V2.0, were in military. The other half was to bring the AI up to the level of Cradle and WAW.

I believe that it now makes CTP2 the best damn Civ-game ever.

Also: for me one of the biggest changes (which I'm sure is in MedMod as well) are the added options of what to do with a city once you have captured it (something like: enslave/move the citizenry - then destroy it, destroy it with everyone inside or keep it). As I am finding the AI builds cities in some extremely silly places, and the gov't city number limits are too restrictive to hang on to real-estate I don't want, this is a huge improvement.

[skeeta]

Cant download from your site,text file ok rest all contain errors

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by skeeta
Cant download from your site,text file ok rest all contain errors

Maybe you could try this place: http://apolyton.net/~ctp2files/

Unfortunatly it still deosn't work with Netscape 4.5.

-Martin

[Jesper Portus]

Play CTP2 the way it should be....[/i] [/QUOTE]

Yes, good ideas, much fun, but ...

I´ve played SAP 2.0 three times, on three PC´s.

First:
No problems.

Second:
Slavehunters will not work! By trying to hunt slaves only a "cash-sound" is played and nothing happens!
First in ruins found warrior started ca. 1000 BC to move automaticly every turn! Like the posted settler-syndrom? I found this warrior prior the first founding of a city.

Third (with friend per LAN): Slavehunters will not work!
Once during the reconfiguration on the LAN-network the game crushed without any message.


Maybe a complete new installation helps.

So long
SL

[TheArsenal]

I am finding that whenever other civs ask to trade maps with me, and I accept, the position of its units are revealed for only a few brief seconds, then disappear back into the unknown. I barely have time to click the diplomacy screen shut before they are gone.

I was thinking about it this morning, and believe it may be that since other civs initiate diplomacy at the end of a turn, the map is only revealed for the few nanoseconds before the year/turn ends, instead of the next turn. I don't recall whether the units remain visible when I initiate a map request at the start of a turn (I don't have the game on this PC), but I pretty sure that they do.

If this happened in the other versions of the game, I never noticed. This version seems to be far more active in initiating diplo-requests, which may be why I never caught it before.

[mnbryan37]

Dale,

Thanks for the tip. The files were not where they should have been, so I re-downloaded and they were there. I have had no re-occurrences of that type of crash since, but did have one additional crash with no error message. It was near the beginning of the game, so I just started a new one and am up to about 300 AD with no problems.

Skeeta,

I had a similier problem with 3 of the files. Just kept re-downloading them until they came through right.

[mnbryan37]

Dale,

I'm now up to about 800AD in my first V2.0 game, and have experienced a couple of minor bugs. I have some tiles that just will not give up their former AI empire designation. I disbanded the towns, and later some fortifications they built there, but I still have two small areas (about 9-10 tiles each) that still claim to belong to the AI empire. The only thing left on any of the tiles are some roads. Secondly, I have had three occurences where a stack of 12 milatary units from a "new" empire appear from out on nowhere in a battle scene with my defenders in 2 seperate large towns that I had recently taken over. They easily beat the 3 or 4 defenders I have and take over the town. When I send in additional forces to defeat them, they act surprised that I am attacking them. After defeating them, that empire disappears again.

Bill

[Tamerlin]

Dale and Martin,

I have currently stopped working on the Super Apolyton Pack translation since two weeks as I have to face some setbacks (other would say challenges) in my life.
I will resume the translation as soon as possible, possibly this week-end...

Martin : thank you for the explanations you gave me in this forum a few weeks ago, they have already been very helpful.

Sorry for the delay,

Best regards

[Ashura]

Dale,

First, thanks you for the improved AI. Still no enough for me but it is now a real opposition (and it attacks cities). Nevertheless I have some questions.

Did you make a sum up of all the change??

When I opened the downloaded zip file there was two times the same files, why? Do I have to install both??

When I signed a peace traty a ghost diplomat appear and create and embassy for me... Is it normal (and how can I disable it if I want).

When attacking with in superiority with Infantery man or machine gunner, they do not use their range attack. Normally they should. (example 3 machine gunner against 1, normally at least one should use it range attack but they all attack as if not having range attack). In defense that work fine...

How is computed the number of PW one receive when he took an enemy capital?

Tahnks

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Ashura
Did you make a sum up of all the change??

Yes this would be a prtty good idea I miss this list, too.

Originally posted by Ashura
When I opened the downloaded zip file there was two times the same files, why? Do I have to install both??

Which file do you mean espeacily, files in the language folders or somewhere else. The main downloads comes with files for the English and German version of the game, so these one are duplicated by name not content.

Originally posted by Ashura
When I signed a peace traty a ghost diplomat appear and create and embassy for me... Is it normal (and how can I disable it if I want).

That is part of Dale's Diplomod. Of course I could now examine Dale's code to tell you how to disable it. But I think I leave it to Dale to answer this question as he is more familiar with his code.

Originally posted by Ashura
How is computed the number of PW one receive when he took an enemy capital?

That is a question about my code. It was easier to code it without a capital bonus, so it doesn't matter if you capture the capital first or an out post. For example if you your enemy has ten cities and you conquer one of them you will receive one tenth of your enemy PW reserve. If you conquer the next city you will receive one ninth of your enemy's PW reserve and finally if you capture the last city you receive the rest of your enemy's PW. Of course you can say that is unrealistic most PW should be stored in the capital and you should get more if you get the capital but you have to note that with Dale's capital move code the capital moves if it is conquered so you can see it as that the additional PW that is stored in the capital will move with the capital.

For the amount of PW that you get if you capture a city you could see it as the whole PW treasury is distributed over the empire equality.

-Martin

[Ashura]

Martin,

About the PW of the Capital I asked because I've got 5000 PW when I invade the Capital City of a computer (and not the last one). So maybe the comptuer had some 15000-20000 PW accumulated
Nevertheless I agree with you that PW should be every where so it does not bother me.
That raised another point about the AI that seemed unable to upgrade quickly their tile improvement, or change them even when they have a lot of public work.

Ashura

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Ashura
That raised another point about the AI that seemed unable to upgrade quickly their tile improvement, or change them even when they have a lot of public work.

Ashura

So far as I know the default setting is to consider to build 50 tile improvements per turn for the. So look on the AI empire and see I much improvements are there I guess there is no room for more ones, know you could use the cheat editor to find out if the AI has the necessary techs to build more advanced tile improvements. From my experience the AI will upgrade its tile improvements once it got the necessary advance and then it needs all the stored PW.

-Martin

[Ashura]

Yes I think this is this way. I've overreacted over this point.
I have just finish a game in 2200, without having all the technology thought all my cities were 35_42 pop and I control half the map.
So two thing bother me. Is the cost of technology the same on all map size (where is it in the SLIC I have to learn the SLIC ). I like to play on small map with few City to manage (quicker to play especially in multiplayer)
Second after reaching the end of modern age I was offered only one or two technologies for choice. I find that a bit disappointing not to be able to made technology choice...

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Ashura
I have just finish a game in 2200, without having all the technology thought all my cities were 35_42 pop and I control half the map. So two thing bother me. Is the cost of technology the same on all map size (where is it in the SLIC I have to learn the SLIC ). I like to play on small map with few City to manage (quicker to play especially in multiplayer)

Yes that is really a problem the tech costs are the same for all map sizes. They were even the same on the ultra gigantic map version of ApolytonPack 1.02. The tech costs can't be find in a slic file you have to edit the advance.txt (in ApolytonPack APOL_advance.txt) to reduce the costs for all techs. You are right the costs maybe right for an ultra gigantic map but not for a normal map. That is one of the next things I have to do in GoodMod for ApolytonPack, therefore I already use the end yeah of the original game in GoodMod for ApolytonPack. CTPEdit will be a good tool to fix the tech costs.

Originally posted by Ashura
Second after reaching the end of modern age I was offered only one or two technologies for choice. I find that a bit disappointing not to be able to made technology choice...

You have to be shure that there are more techs for that you have the prequisites. If you only have all required techs for just two techs than you can only select between two techs. To find this out use the Great Library.

-Martin

[Ashura]

Thanks Martin,

I will change the Advance cost, may be half or 2/3 should be good. any opinion??
For the Advance I think IMHO that it came from the age requirement (there is a lot more age and fewer future tech). May be you can explain me how to reduce the number of age?? and the age requirement.

I think that the tile production of Ocean tile has been change isn't it? Where can I modifiy that to my liking...

Sorry, I ask a lot of things (it is because the pack is upgrade a lot of things and that good)

[J Bytheway]

You can change the ocean tile production in terrain.txt.

[Martin Gühmann]

I think it hasn't to do anythink with the age requirement, you find the number of advances required for each age in the age.txt for APOL'Pack APOL_age.txt. But that hasn't anythink to do two with for research available advances. You need to enter one particular age as many advances as specified in the age.txt from the age that should be enterd. Actual there are not more or less advances in APOL'Pack, there are just members of different ages that has no influence on the discover time.

-Martin

[Ashura]

Thanks every one indeed,

I will look at all this things and try my mods with a few luck...

[ETB]

I don’t have the files in front of me, but I seem to recall a multiplier for the costs of (all) advances in the diffdb.txt file. I remember adjusting it to make advances cost more so I would run out of advances closer to the end of a long game (on extra-huge-gigantic maps). The multiplier seemed to work and it seems to me far easier to change the one multiplier in diffdb.txt than to change individual advance costs in the advance.txt file. Hasn’t anyone modified diffdb.txt to adjust the costs of advances?

[ETB]

I just downloaded all the version 2.0 (beta) files from Dale’s website. I am looking forward to facing the improved AI in battle and at the negotiating table. I am very grateful to those who have dedicated their time and effort to producing the Apolyton Pack. I know that version 1.2 made the game much more challenging and interesting, so I bet that version 2.0 will be even better!

I have some few questions - do I need any of the smaller bugfix files identified in this thread? Or have they been incorporated into the files I downloaded? I think that I should just grab the small bufixes that I want from this thread, right?

I enjoyed playing against about 15 AIs on the oversize maps in version 1.2, even though it made for some very long games. Were the oversized maps very popular, or was it just me? I would be willing to help with some of the text file adjustments for oversize map play if such a feature is going to be included in future versions of the pack.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by ETB
I have some few questions - do I need any of the smaller bugfix files identified in this thread? Or have they been incorporated into the files I downloaded? I think that I should just grab the small bufixes that I want from this thread, right?

Actual Dale didn't announced that he incorporated the last attachment that I provided, so I guess it is not in. Dale anounced for the earlier bug fixes that these are in so they are in. If you want really to prevent the AI and of course the human as well from pillaging neutral tile improvements than you should get my last bug fix from this thread. In APOL'Pack it is not as a huge problem as in GoodMod as you don't have a map filled with neutral tile improvements. But this bug can also occur in every other version of this game therefore if you like to elimate a reason for a crash than download the lastone.

-Martin

[TheArsenal]

Originally posted by ETB
I enjoyed playing against about 15 AIs on the oversize maps in version 1.2, even though it made for some very long games. Were the oversized maps very popular, or was it just me? I would be willing to help with some of the text file adjustments for oversize map play if such a feature is going to be included in future versions of the pack.

I was a fan of the Ultra-Gigantic Map, and regularly played with 11 civs. But on my system, I was finding in the later game, especially with the large armies needed for multi-front campaigns, that it was taking quite some time between turns. Up to 7, 8 minutes sometimes. I'm sure that's a hardware issue. So while I miss that size map in some ways, I am finding I enjoy the quicker turn time more. If it turns out its not a hardware issue, I would be glad to see the Ultra-Gigantic make a return.

[mnbryan37]

Martin,

You are correct. The V2.0 does not include your fix of the crash's that occurr when pillaging neutral tile improvements. I think it does include all the other fixes though.

Bill

[Ashura]

Originally posted by ETB
I don’t have the files in front of me, but I seem to recall a multiplier for the costs of (all) advances in the diffdb.txt file. I remember adjusting it to make advances cost more so I would run out of advances closer to the end of a long game (on extra-huge-gigantic maps). The multiplier seemed to work and it seems to me far easier to change the one multiplier in diffdb.txt than to change individual advance costs in the advance.txt file. Hasn’t anyone modified diffdb.txt to adjust the costs of advances?

There is a multiplier, mostly for difficulty I think. Nevertheless I did a file with the original advance cost and Dale's age if any one interested.

Another questions :

There are two problem with the AI :

In the early Age its 12 army stack refuse to attack my Cities (even in Impossible level) can someone say me where I can try to mod that easily or improve it.

I like to play on archipelago world, but the computer seem unable to make any correct oversea operation depiste the dale's modification...

I know this is a wish list...

Ashura

[Peter Triggs]

Ashura,

In the early Age its 12 army stack refuse to attack my Cities (even in Impossible level) can someone say me where I can try to mod that easily or improve it.

Go to GOAL_SEIGE in Goals.txt and outcomment some of the SquadClass flags as follows:

GOAL_SEIGE {
RallyFirst

SquadClass:CanAttack
// SquadClass:CanBombard
// SquadClass:CanDefend
// SquadClass:HasZoc
// SquadClass:CanCaptureCity

TargetType:City
TargetOwner:HotEnemy

Execute ORDER_ATTACK

When I did this I got much better results. Don't ask me why, I would have thought that those flags function disjunctively.

I like to play on archipelago world, but the computer seem unable to make any correct oversea operation depiste the dale's modification...

The AI likes water about as much as my cat, Gottlob, liked going for a swim. It's disappointing: the game has lots of great naval units but I find that as soon as I put any significant percentage of water on the map, I'm in for an easy game.

It was the same with Civ2, as I recall; the AI there would never mount an effective amphibious invasion. And likewise for Civ3, I believe that Yin26 got initially excited when he saw it's AI land some troops on his territory but it turned out to be a fluke. OTOH, when RON comes out it will be interesting to see how this works:

UGO: Naval units always seem to be an afterthought in games of this type. Will Rise of Nations re-introduce them as critical units or are they still a secondary thought?

BR: I've been dying to tell somebody and I think you may be the first person to ask me about the ships! Naval units in RTS games have always been a "love 'em or hate 'em" proposition--many players refuse to play on "sea maps" at all. ... in Rise of Nations once you have the proper technology and you've built a port, your ground units have automatic access to transports at any appropriate coast: just order them across the sea and they go. The game automatically handles packing them up in transport ships (the slowest and most vulnerable class of ships, of course). It makes naval games a lot more fun and a lot less frustrating.

Presumably, their AI will be able to do the same thing. (Hmm, you know "your ground units have automatic access to transports" reminds me of the way that CTP1 handled paratroopers. )

[ETB]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann


Actual Dale didn't announced that he incorporated the last attachment that I provided, so I guess it is not in. Dale anounced for the earlier bug fixes that these are in so they are in. If you want really to prevent the AI and of course the human as well from pillaging neutral tile improvements than you should get my last bug fix from this thread. In APOL'Pack it is not as a huge problem as in GoodMod as you don't have a map filled with neutral tile improvements. But this bug can also occur in every other version of this game therefore if you like to elimate a reason for a crash than download the lastone.

-Martin

Thank you Martin. I can really appreciate the “neutral tile pillage” fix. I tried to pillage an improvement once on a neutral tile and the game immediately crashed! I restarted and tried it again just to make sure that was the reason for the crash and sure enough – BOOM. I never tried it again, but I thought that was an odd bug not to have been fixed in CtP2 (if not in the patch!). I’ll have to try your fix now.