How will special units for each civ balance one another?

Ilkuul · April 28, 2001, 20:33

This seems quite an important point to me. Will I always have to play the Americans, because they have F15's? Will I be at a serious disadvantage as the Zulus in the endgame, because all I had was Impi's in ancient times? I would hope not!

My own guess is that these special units will have been play-tested and tweaked in such a way that if I choose Zulus, it will be possible for me with my impi's to build a commanding lead in ancient times, so that if I play my cards right I'll be well able to deal with the Americans' F15's when they appear on the scene.

Any thoughts?

April 28, 2001, 22:32

I had the exact same thoughts. Or maybe impis will have "stinger javelins" in the modern era.

Bereta_Eder · April 28, 2001, 23:50

Exactly my fears too.

Most of productive warfare takes place in the end game and it's the modern weapons that matter.

All civs must have special weapons for all ages (from ancient to modern).

Bereta_Eder · April 28, 2001, 23:51

Better still: NO UNIQUE UNITS

Cyclotron · April 29, 2001, 00:10

Amen to that!

------------------
- Cyclotron7, "that supplementary resource fanatic"

King Richard · April 29, 2001, 00:26

The special units is definately in! I think this is promising news. This would mean that you'll have to choose your civ with more care than before. If you're the type that likes to go to war early in the game, choose the vikings, Zulus, Aztecs or whatever. If, on the other hand, you like to build yourself up and make war late in the game, choose the americans. It would also mean that you'll have to think through who you'll be better off killing first. These units will probably not be that much better than the others, anyway!

Bereta_Eder · April 29, 2001, 00:35

I want to be able to chose any civ without any penalties...

90% of the civers would chose Americans (planes) or Germans (tanks) because of superiority in the modern era when you actually need it.

There's nothing wrong with playing the americans or the germans but I wouldn't mind playing the greeks too without PENALTY to my way of playing.

Nemo · April 29, 2001, 00:37

if each civ has unique units - that ok IF the units have teh same specs. i.e. F-15 has same firepower,defense,bombardment, etc. as teh Mig. this way it will balanced, yet unique to each civ. this is what i am hoping for. i do NOT want things like in Age of Empires where each has different unit capabilities. i do NOT want to have to be forced to be a civ based on my playing sytle, instead of picking the civ because i simply like it. i like to be the americans when i am in a diplomatic mood (i associate it with the UN) and if i want to take over the world i play the germans (i associate it with wwI and wwII). i dont want these units making up my mind for me...that would just piss me off. and that is why i hated AoE. i always played AoE with full tech tree. I hope that there is an option to turn it off if the international equivilant units have different specs.

King Richard · April 29, 2001, 00:42

Options are always good! We'll probably get SMAC +++, there were quite a few options in SMAC as far as I can remember?

Derfner · April 29, 2001, 00:53

This is what I hope for in this unique unit thing. First off make it optional, something you select under custom rules. Second make unique units for each age, ie Japanese has Samurai-Ancient, Zero-Industrial. This would be harder for civilizations that went extint and don't really have modern units. Finally they should not necisarily be better, just differant. For instance, a Russian MiG can have a higher defence but lower attack, or a Roman legion could be better but it would cost more. All in all I'm not for unique units, I think a unit workshop would be better.

Ilkuul · April 29, 2001, 05:11

quote:

Originally posted by Nemo on 04-29-2001 12:37 AM
if each civ has unique units - that ok IF the units have teh same specs.

RIGHT! I hadn't considered that possibility. Yes, that would be much better: then having the unique units would increase the sense of 'special identity' of that particular civ, without unbalancing the game. I hope they do it that way.
[This message has been edited by Ilkuul (edited April 29, 2001).]

Zanzin · April 29, 2001, 09:12

I'm divided on unique units. It's obviously a new feature for the Civ series, so we can say that it will either work or it won't. One of the biggest problems is the Zulu example - what kind of modern air units will they have??

The other problem with unique units is that, for example, American civilization didn't kick off until the 16th centuary - so what kind of ancient units will they have?? Not exactly historically accurate.

On the other hand, unique units will bolster the "feel" of your civilization, adding to the atmosphere of the game, which I feel is a veyr important thing.

Clay Pigeon · April 29, 2001, 13:13

It would be to easy to just keep it all equal and have a winning game.

Yog-Sothoth · April 29, 2001, 14:47

In my opinion unique units don't fit well in a game with such long timespan as civ. I't work's well in games like Starcraft, but in civ I have the feeling it will be to difficult to balance them well.

I like to make my own history in civ, not replay history as it were. For that I play scenario's.

OzzyKP · April 30, 2001, 00:39

I don't think the units will unbalance the game, it'll just change things. Strategies will be based on it. Like if you have a strong early game pick Zulus and try to take out the Americans and Germans before you get to the Modern Age. If you have a strong middle game, pick the French (or something) and use their Paladins to wreak havoc. I think this is promising news, the more differences between civs the better. Find the one you like and play. Viva Variety!

Lawrence of Arabia · April 30, 2001, 00:51

I was hoping that all of these 'special units' could be researched as minor techs. It would be a lot more realistic that way.

------------------
Its okay to smile; you're in America now

Zanzin · May 1, 2001, 07:38

I agree, Yog Sothoth. But, who knows...maybe Sid will come up with some super special way of doing unique units...fingers crossed!!

belusa · May 1, 2001, 07:57

What if these unique units are just "unique" by the way they look? We don't know anything about them (specs), we just saw some of them in the screenshots. Will that make everybody happy? ... same units (attack, defense, ...), but with different look which still gives a certain uniqueness.

Just a thought ...

tniem · May 9, 2001, 13:49

quote:

Originally posted by King Richard on 04-29-2001 12:42 AM
Options are always good! We'll probably get SMAC +++, there were quite a few options in SMAC as far as I can remember?

There were tons of options in SMAC. Overwhelming at times. It took five minutes of reading all the options before you could even start the game. Sometimes too many options is worse than too few options.

ajbera · May 9, 2001, 14:25

quote:

Originally posted by tniem on 05-09-2001 01:49 PM
There were tons of options in SMAC. Overwhelming at times. It took five minutes of reading all the options before you could even start the game. Sometimes too many options is worse than too few options.

Then just play with the default options - no time wasted. I want even more options than SMAC had - maximize customizability. However, make certain there is a 'default settings' option to immediately play the game.

Cyclotron · May 9, 2001, 18:23

Civ specific units might be balanced if every civ was given a unit for each age... this certainly fixes the "Zulu problem", but brings up another one: Some civs have not survived into the modern age... so what are the Zulus and Aztecs going to have for modern units?

------------------
- Cyclotron7, "that supplementary resource fanatic"

ancient · May 9, 2001, 21:37

no russian MiGs Are better!

Sabre2th · May 10, 2001, 20:52

I can't predict the future and I won't try. I also won't throw bad ideas out to get shot down (

). I'll just wait it out and trust in the almighty Sid.

------------------
"We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything."
-Thomas A. Edison

lord of the mark · May 10, 2001, 20:57

they wont be balanced. No one can playtest the strategies that players will come up with that the desingers havent envisioned.

Can anyone say "teuton town centers"?

LOTM

lord of the mark · May 10, 2001, 21:00

quote:

Originally posted by cyclotron7 on 05-09-2001 06:23 PM
Civ specific units might be balanced if every civ was given a unit for each age... this certainly fixes the "Zulu problem", but brings up another one: Some civs have not survived into the modern age... so what are the Zulus and Aztecs going to have for modern units?

AOE gave the Sumerians iron age units, despite the sumerians being gone before actual iron age began.

once you do something as ahistorical as unique units, who cares about the aztec modern units?
its "only a game" after all.

LOTM

Sabre2th · May 10, 2001, 21:01

Civ-specific units in that form COULD be a disaster, but we can't know for sure yet. What I would like is civ-specific graphics (and/or sounds) as an option, rather than whole units.

------------------
"We don't know a millionth of one percent about anything."
-Thomas A. Edison