Do you consider re-loading previous saves to be cheating? - Page 3

Redstar · May 17, 2002, 03:34

"No you did, I was talking about exactly that. You tried to sell it and then AFTER your turn the cost changed"

ok. i see what you are saying. But i would strongly disagree that 1 turn makes such a swing in the cost. Though this is indeed different from the way i was thinking the turns went.

let me use another example.

in a game with 7 civs (regent), I discover the tech first and try to sell it to a weak civ that can only really afford to pay me 10 gold and 1 per turn. I of course refuse. Instead i sell the tech to a civ for 760 gold and 120 gold per turn plus maps.

i also sell it to another civ for 400 gold and 30 gold per turn cause that's all it can afford.

Now next turn...every civ has that tech including the one that could only offer 10 gold and 1 gold per turn.

There is no way the value of the tech sunk so low.

Now...switch it around and go back a few years to when all 4 other civs had a tech that i did not. It would be 8 turns before i discovered it. Yet when i try to get the tech for as low as the other civs can get it for...its no way (they refuse to negotiate even).

And lastly, if i am about to discover the tech on that very same turn sequence...only then do they offer to sell me the tech for 20 gold.

So i stand by my claim that the AI is overly genourous with tech trades with itself.

but i did misunderstand when i thought you were telling me about
me buying the tech.

I would also point out that even though every AI goes before me for say turn seven...only 1 turn does actually go by.

turn 7 green...turn 7 blue..... turn 7 white... turn 7 me.

But i also realise now that if the tech is now traded 4x before it gets back to me again that will have an impact on the value. Just not as much as you would think based on my experience.

But the randomness may also be leading to misperceptions on my part.

Atahualpa · May 17, 2002, 06:39

Its SinglePlayer. Who cares about cheating?

zulu9812 · May 17, 2002, 06:59

You're only cheating yourself

nato · May 17, 2002, 07:09

For single player people should do whatever is most fun for themselves. For me, although redoing bad results is nice, I much prefer the "reality" of having to take losses. It makes the game much more exciting to me.

But to each their own! Maybe other people don't want the stress or annoyance or grief when they play a game for fun.

For tournaments or comparison games, its of course not cool at all.

Bolleck · May 17, 2002, 07:12

I like the possibility to reload.

Its SinglePlayer. Who cares?

zulu9812 · May 17, 2002, 07:15

Actually, I find it more fun if I have to live with my mistakes - I learn more from dealing with them than by undoing them

Nym · May 17, 2002, 07:46

I never reload autosaved game, whatever happens, even if I made a mistake. I think it's part of the game and I should be careful of what I do.
Just one exception: I do reload autosave when the game crashes.

zulu9812 · May 17, 2002, 07:55

Quite right

Akka · May 17, 2002, 08:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Nym
I never reload autosaved game, whatever happens, even if I made a mistake. I think it's part of the game and I should be careful of what I do.
Just one exception: I do reload autosave when the game crashes.

You should not. Crashes are the abstraction of a coup d'état or an assassination against you. I know it's random, but **** happens. Caesar was murdered, he did not whined about Firaxis. It happens sometimes, deal with it. If you can't manage to keep your game crash-free, then you deserved it.
Crash = you lose.
If you can't prevent yourself for cheating, well, you're wasting your own pleasure.

player1 · May 17, 2002, 08:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Akka le Vil
You should not. Crashes are the abstraction of a coup d'état or an assassination against you. I know it's random, but **** happens. Caesar was murdered, he did not whined about Firaxis. It happens sometimes, deal with it. If you can't manage to keep your game crash-free, then you deserved it.
Crash = you lose.
If you can't prevent yourself for cheating, well, you're wasting your own pleasure.

nato · May 17, 2002, 08:32

Quote:

Caesar was murdered, he did not whined about Firaxis.

Thus robbing history of the epic line "Et tu Firaxis?"

What great ammunition he could have given the whiners camp!

Akka · May 17, 2002, 11:47

Quote:

Originally posted by nato
"Et tu Firaxis?"

"Et tu Firaxis" ?

Don't get it. To what where you making a reference ?

Jon Shafer · May 17, 2002, 13:03

Alas, it's a coup de Firaxis!!!!

dengidavai · May 17, 2002, 14:49

I use voice activated software to play Civilization III because I have repetitive strain injury and can't use my hands to play. It's damn slow, but it's better than not playing at all.

Sometimes the microphone picks up my breathing or some extraneous sound and misinterprets it as a command, and sometimes the program responds incorrectly to a voice command, as a result of which my units take actions that I did not intend.

In cases where these errors have a significant impact on the game, I reload the most recent autosave, and have a completely clear conscience about it.

I have also just reloaded an auto save on a few occasions to see how the game would play out if I hadn't made a particular decision. I have a completely clear conscience in these cases, too, because after all, I'm just playing for my own personal enjoyment, not to compete against anyone else or to brag to others about how well I did.

nato · May 17, 2002, 14:52

It was just a joke.

Caesar is supposed to say "Et Tu Brute?" when he is murdered, because he is hurt that his friend Brutus is also one of the assassins. Et tu Brute? is a very famous line ... at least in America. I was joking that if Caesar had complained about Firaxis when he was murdered, like you had joked, then he could have instead said "Et tu Firaxis?" Then anti-Firaxis people could blame Firaxis, the source of all woes for them, for killing Caesar too.

It was straightforward to me at least ... oh well thats humor.

asleepathewheel · May 17, 2002, 14:58

Quote:

Originally posted by nato

Thus robbing history of the epic line "Et tu Firaxis?"

What great ammunition he could have given the whiners camp!

nice nato, very nice

Akka · May 17, 2002, 16:22

Quote:

Originally posted by nato
It was just a joke.

Caesar is supposed to say "Et Tu Brute?" when he is murdered, because he is hurt that his friend Brutus is also one of the assassins. Et tu Brute? is a very famous line ... at least in America. I was joking that if Caesar had complained about Firaxis when he was murdered, like you had joked, then he could have instead said "Et tu Firaxis?" Then anti-Firaxis people could blame Firaxis, the source of all woes for them, for killing Caesar too.

It was straightforward to me at least ... oh well thats humor.

Oh

Well, for what I know, Caesar was supposed to say "Tu quoque, fili ?". So I did not made the connection

Nym · May 17, 2002, 16:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Akka le Vil

Oh

Well, for what I know, Caesar was supposed to say "Tu quoque, fili ?". So I did not made the connection

I even think it was "Tu quoque mei filii."

nato · May 17, 2002, 16:48

Well now we're even! I hadn't heard your version. The best I could make out of it was "You that that girl", so I looked it up. I found this:

Quote:

his famous last words were: Tu quoque, Brute, fili mi! (or Et tu, Brute. The meaning is "Even you, Brutus, my son?")

I guess we were both right.

btw, thanks asleepathewheel! ... I was worried I wasn't making sense.

Akka · May 17, 2002, 17:23

Well, what's important to remember is that it was Firaxis' fault that Caesar was assassinated.

MosesPresley · May 17, 2002, 17:47

Asking if you can cheat at solitaire is like asking if you can cheat at masturbation. It's only cheating if you are playing against another human. You can't cheat a machine.

asleepathewheel · May 17, 2002, 18:21

Quote:

Originally posted by MosesPresley
Asking if you can cheat at solitaire is like asking if you can cheat at masturbation. It's only cheating if you are playing against another human. You can't cheat a machine.

What's wrong with masturbating with a machine?

Jon Shafer · May 17, 2002, 18:46

I don't think that exactly was what he was talking about.

KrazyHorse · May 18, 2002, 03:57

Quote:

Do you consider re-loading previous saves to be cheating?

Yes, unless it's because of a slip of the fingers (Jesus! I didn't want o attack that tank with my infantry).

Oligarf · May 18, 2002, 09:27

Yes, I consider it cheating, and I do it if the situation asks for it, that is if things go terribly wrong, that I couldn't even imagine it would go that way. Playing a game is in my case for fun, if I want to keep it fun sometimes I have to reload, but I have succeeded to finish games without reloading though.

Jon Shafer · May 18, 2002, 11:55

As has been stated, you play the game for fun. If not reloading to a more enjoyable spot, but instead living as 5 other civs pound you into the dirt for not handing over 10 gold is enjoyable to you, then go ahead. The rest of us can "cheat" and enjoy our games.

HazieDaVampire · May 18, 2002, 19:26

i do it loads, since i'm still playing on my first game file so i don't know exactly what happens when i do certain things.

Coracle · May 18, 2002, 22:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
As has been stated, you play the game for fun. If not reloading to a more enjoyable spot, but instead living as 5 other civs pound you into the dirt for not handing over 10 gold is enjoyable to you, then go ahead. The rest of us can "cheat" and enjoy our games.

EXACTLY.

That is why the lack of options in Civ 3 compared to Civ 2 is so bad.

Scenario-building was ooe of the best parts of Civ 2. The Cheat Mode was very useful for many things and not just "cheating". With it we could even switich sides in a scenario and see if we could do better that the AI did. Of course we could, but it was fun.

Firaxis is so annoying they even took away the "multi.sav" cheat with the 1.21 patch.

HazieDaVampire · May 19, 2002, 14:50

One reason to do this is that it takes ages to play a game, i'm currently doing pritty well in the year 2120ad. Now, if i got wiped out some how, you don't expect me to start all over again? do you. This is even more so by the fact that i don't like early game, i like to own a pritty large island/continent and expand from there! So i'm bound to load my last save game to save me from 2 weeks of getting this far!

zulu9812 · May 19, 2002, 20:33

Yo Hazie - what's wrong with the early game? It gives your empire a history, and I, at least, end up caring more about what happens to it than if I happened to start off in control of a continent-sized empire. With the scenario editor promised in the XP, you could do just that - but then all the hard work's been done for you; all you have to do is assume control of a very big, very powerful empire.