Corruption and waste

SlowThinker · May 21, 2002, 12:41

Finbar posted some formulas listed in the "Civ 2 Strategy Guide" by David Ellis to City Bribing.

Originally posted by Civ2 Strategy guide
Under most systems of government, the corruption and waste experienced by a city increase with distance from the capital.
The formula:
Corruption = ((Trade x Distance) x 3 / (20 x (4 + Government))
Where:
Government = 1 (Despotism), 2 (Monarchy), 3 (Fundy), 4 (Republic), 0 (Communism and Democracy)
Distance = the city's distance from the capital (diagonal squares count as 1.5 squares).
The maximum value of Distance = 36.
Government = Government + 1, if the city is celebrating "We Love The * Day".
Distance = (Distance x 2) + Difficulty Level (possible values = 0 through to 5), if the government is Despotism.

I have tested the corruption and waste formulas and they are false enough.

Results of my testing:

	*Corruption = Trade x DistanceFactor TenTenFactor / 100**
	*Waste = ShieldSurplus x DistanceFactor TenTenFactor / 100**

The results are rounded down.

TenTen factor depends on the government and represents the corruption/waste in a city with trade=10 at distance 10 from the capital:

	Corruption		Waste
Anarchy	(3.75)	(= 15/4)	3.75	(= 15/4)
Despotism	3	(= 15/5)	3	(= 15/5)
Monarchy	2.5	(= 15/6)	1.25	(= 15/12)
Republic	1.875	(= 15/8)	0.625	(= 15/24)

Under Communism, Fundamentalism and Democracy the corruption/waste is always 0
(a note: Communism may be changed in rules.txt file; by default the file contains the following line:
0 ; Empire is equivalent of this palace distance).
There is no tax and beaker output under anarchy and so the corruption is irrelevant.
Notice waste is taken from the shield surplus, the shield support isn't taken into account.

DistanceFactor = Distance + DifficultyLevel

	Corruption	Waste
Max. DistanceFactor	32	-
Max. Distance	-	16

DifficultyLevel
Under Anarchy and Despotism the DifficultyLevel is: chieftain=0... deity=5
Under Monarchy and Republic it is always 0.

The courthouse and a road to the capital

The courthouse and road to the capital multiplies the formula result:

	Corruption	Waste
Courthouse	1/2	1/2
Road to capital	-	2/3

Values are rounded down immediately.
The courthouse acts first, the road second.

The road must follow the direction of the go-to order. See the picture in the Interesting observations on the effects of roads on trade thread.

Building the capital

Switching your production choice to Palace in any city (multiple cities) will eliminate waste (not corruption) in that city during the build time. This is valid only if you have no Palace yet (no capital).
(Any city with a Palace in it (the "capital" ) will have no corruption or waste whatsoever.)

Edited several times

LDiCesare · May 22, 2002, 08:53

You have probably nistyped.
Suppose Trade = 10, DistanceFactor = 10,
Your formula is then 1/Ten-tenFactor

Thus:
Anarchy 3.75 (= 15/4) -> corruption = 4/15
Despotism 3 (= 15/5) -> corruption = 1/3
Monarchy 2.5 (= 15/6) -> corruption = 0.4
Republic 1.875 (= 15/8) -> corruption = 8/15
This formula is obviously false.
You probably meant:
Trade x (DistanceFactor / 100) * TenTenFactor
And please don't use a - in an identifier in a math formula. I wondered why you wrote Ten instead of 10...
Now I didn't check the results were correct.

Thoddy · May 22, 2002, 09:30

There is also a "road on the optimal path to capital" factor.

Scouse Gits · May 22, 2002, 10:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Thoddy
There is also a "road on the optimal path to capital" factor.

There is?

I never knew that...

SG[1]

SlowThinker · May 22, 2002, 12:08

Waste was added.

SlowThinker · May 22, 2002, 12:13

LDiCesare,

Thank you. Both Ten-ten and the formula were corrected.

Quote:

Originally posted by Thoddy There is also a "road on the optimal path to capital" factor.

What do you mean? Could you be more concrete?

SlowThinker · May 22, 2002, 12:14

deleted

SlowThinker · May 22, 2002, 12:15

deleted

jake03 · May 22, 2002, 13:37

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowThinker
LDiCesare,

Thank you. Both Ten-ten and the formula were corrected.

What do you mean? Could you be more concrete?

come on now drop the other shoe for us clueless folks

JCP · May 22, 2002, 14:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Thoddy
There is also a "road on the optimal path to capital" factor.

I know the bonus for trading, when caravans run along an optimal path between two cities, but not this mysterious waste and corruption factor.
Do you confuse ?

jake03 · May 22, 2002, 14:48

no no I was not clear in my post. why I was asking about is the "optimun road to the capitol" mentioned above

SlowThinker · May 22, 2002, 16:26

Quote:

Originally posted by JCP
I know the bonus for trading, when caravans run along an optimal path between two cities, but not this mysterious waste and corruption factor.

Confused again!

I thought the path of the caravan is irrelevant, only a road that follows "optimal" path between cities must exist...

Scouse Gits · May 22, 2002, 16:43

There seems to be a great deal of confusion here - let me see if I can help

In trading - bonusses acrue if an 'optimal path' between the trading cities is roaded or RRed - this path which need not be complete as long as it leaves the city and terminates in any city is most easily determined by tracking an Explorer from A to B - it is NOT transitive ie the route A-B is not necessarily the same as B-A

It has been suggested above that a road to the capital along this 'optimal path' will impinge upon waste - this is new to this forum and hence the cries of confusion from ST and myself

Does this help at all ??

SG[1]

Bloody Monk · May 22, 2002, 19:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Thoddy
There is also a "road on the optimal path to capital" factor.

I don't want to add to the 'confusion' and a quick search of the manual did not yield results...but I seem to remember a reference somewhere that connecting a new city to the Capitol (by road) will reduce or effect happiness or corruption or both in the new city. Is this what was meant??

SlowThinker · May 22, 2002, 19:47

And Thoddy laughs silently...

Thoddy · May 23, 2002, 02:39

Oh whats this. Confusion about my post.

Quote:

I don't want to add to the 'confusion' and a quick search of the manual did not yield results...but I seem to remember a reference somewhere that connecting a new city to the Capitol (by road) will reduce or effect happiness or corruption or both in the new city. Is this what was meant??

yes

As SG[1] say in his post - its the same thing as the tradebonus (use the same programroutines).

I will create a sav and post it tomorrow.
Í found this thing when i check the ongoing trade formula last year.

See this link about trade

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...0&pagenumber=3

Scouse Gits · May 23, 2002, 05:11

Sorry, Thoddy I missed that thread when it was active - have just bumped it.
I do not recall any other reference to Corruption and Waste being route to capital related...

SG[1]

jake03 · May 23, 2002, 07:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
There seems to be a great deal of confusion here - let me see if I can help

In trading - bonusses acrue if an 'optimal path' between the trading cities is roaded or RRed - this path which need not be complete as long as it leaves the city and terminates in any city is most easily determined by tracking an Explorer from A to B - it is NOT transitive ie the route A-B is not necessarily the same as B-A

It has been suggested above that a road to the capital along this 'optimal path' will impinge upon waste - this is new to this forum and hence the cries of confusion from ST and myself

Does this help at all ??

SG[1]

deebee deebee deebeet,
so to summorize road are good especially for cities named a and b

Scouse Gits · May 23, 2002, 07:54

Yes it is absolutely vital to ensure that all trade takes place between city a and city b - glad you picked up that point and ran with it -- unfortunately not far enough

SG[1]

Thoddy · May 24, 2002, 02:07

Here is the save. FW needed.

The Road effect is a little effect on shields. Buit only If there are Courthouse and Roads.

rules.txt (german) included.
Changes: grassland produce 10 Arrows and 10 shield (IF ressource)
Freight has 42 mp and threat all square as road

In the same configuration I tested the trade multipliers.
In this case I build a lot of cities in a horizontal line. city-empty-city-empty-city
and so on.

SlowThinker · May 24, 2002, 22:10

Hm, I saw thoddy's savefile quickly. It looks there is effect to the waste but no effect to the corruption.

A link to the picture with "optimal" paths:
Interesting observations on the effects of roads on trade

SlowThinker · May 25, 2002, 10:43

I added the effect of courthouse, road to capital added and capital building to the 1st post.

JCP · May 27, 2002, 14:18

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowThinker
A link to the picture with "optimal" paths:
Interesting observations on the effects of roads on trade

The link goes to a post reply !

SlowThinker · May 27, 2002, 16:34

Quote:

The link goes to a post reply !

Corrected.

Scouse Gits · May 28, 2002, 08:38

SlowThinker - you are still using the IP address to access poly - this can have some fairly nasty side effects on occasion - change your bookmarks to be http://apolyton.net/forums to avoid these

SG[1]

SlowThinker · May 28, 2002, 10:52

Quote:

Originally posted by SG[1]
SlowThinker - you are still using the IP address to access poly

Thanx.
BTW, did you ever try the link in your signature

?

Scouse Gits · May 28, 2002, 12:18

Not recently, but I have a distinct feeling that I shall have egg on my face

SG[1]