The value of rushing caravans

[geofelt]

After many games, I finally understand the value of rushing caravans. If you need gold to complete a wonder, the cost is 200 gold for each 50 shields needed(or one caravan). If you start building a caravan, and have at least one shield, then you can complete that caravan for under 125 gold.
The way I do it, I start a caravan, and get(let's say) 5 shields on it. I then pay gold to complete a warrior(13 gold), change to a phalanx, rush that for another 25 gold, change to a diplomat, rush that for 25 gold, change to a settler, rush that for 25 gold, then change back to a caravan. Two turns later, I have a caravan worth 200 gold that only cost me 83 gold and three turns. Even a one shield city could do this for 125 gold in two turns. This is much more efficient than just paying for the wonder. It is a bit tedious, though. If I can get tribute, then it is real easy to build many wonders.
How do others do this? Is there a better technique?

[Smash]

Thats pretty much it.The savings are substantial in gold and turns.When to buy can change with sheild production.

If you are actively trading,it is probably worth it to rush from scratch if neccessary.Even if the warrior slot is long gone.You can be looking at payouts of 500>1500 and more plus the beakers.If you keep recycling gold back into camels and freights,you whiz thru the tech tree and end up filthy rich.

[TCO]

is this in Ming's cheat list?

[atawa]

It shouldnt be, its not a cheat imho, just good gameplay.

You actualy dont have to build more then 2 types of units all game: dips/spies and caravans.
(not counting the 2/3 exploring units at the start of the game)

[rah]

it's called incremental buying and is not considered a cheat, by most people.

If you're getting good pays, just keep rushing them, but unless the pays are great, it's best to do it every other turn.

Or early in the game when money is tight, and you're rushing for wonders.
Rush buy it over 4/5 turns. Let a shield or more produce in each row then just buy the rest of the row. (if a city produces less than 10 shields) Next turn do the same. Yes it take longer but early in the game money is tight and the routes aren't paying the well to justify rush buying from scratch.

RAH

[TCO]

I think it was in Ming's cheat list...pretty evident that it's a tedious workaround of a restriction on buying wonders...

I know some of the other rushbuy peculiarties were in his cheat list...

[rah]

But you must remember, a lot on his lists were exploits of the game with no moral judgements. Whether they were actual "CHEATS" were left up to the groups of gamers definitions.

Of course, some were so obviously cheats, that 99% of the people disallow them.

[Scouse Gits]

Assuming you are building a 200-shield wonder like the Colossus, the saving gained by incrementally buying four caravans is huge. Based upon four cities each with a production of five shields per turn the saving is around 500 gold.

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SG(2)

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by GP
is this in Ming's cheat list?

What do you care? YOU DON'T EVEN PLAY

[TCO]

I played a bunch, back in the day. That was before you got to the site, donkey...

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by GP
I played a bunch, back in the day. That was before you got to the site, donkey...

Lol - YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE THE CD NOW

[TCO]

Let it go...you geek, you.

[Alexander's Horse]

As for rush buying caras - I think its always worthwhile - provided you have the cash

[Scouse Gits]

Strange how these things come around ...

The following is taken from page 6 of "The Mad 2.42 Succession Game" over on Civ2|General

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Economics 101
Assuming that a city has a production of 5 shields per turn
The cost of a caravan is:

* 10 turns - natural build
* 6 turns + 44 g - 'tickling'
* 3 turns + 86 g - economic incremental rushing
* 2 turns + 111 g - incremental rushing
* 1 turn + 150 g - heroic incremental rushing

The value of a caravan when added to a WoW is 50 Wonder shields = 200g

Moral: it is never cost effective to buy a WoW - always buy a caravan instead.


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Notes on the above:
natural build - 10 x 5 shields = 50 = caravan
tickling - 4 x (5 shield + 11g) + 2 x 5 shield = 50
eir - 5 shield + 11g + 3 x 25g + 2 x 5 shield = 50
ir - 5 shield + 11g + 4 x 25g = 50
hir - 50g + 4 x 25g = 50

and this might go some way to explaining why I hate Feudalism and GunPowder - they take away my Warrior and I don't get it back until Fundamentalism.
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Appendix A

Warrior / Fanatic = 10 shield
Phalanx / Pike / Horseman = 20 shield
Archer / Diplomat / Musk = 30 shield
Settler / Trireme / Caravel / Legion = 40 shield

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What you doing slumming here AH - had another PCR and need to get back the Deity status?

SG[1]

[Alexander's Horse]

Eh! I'm a civver

I don't mind inc buying caras by line, i.e. fill in one line every turn, I tend to do it over 3 or 4 turns.

[Messer Niccolò]

So, incremental building of caravans is only cost effective when used to build WoW (as per SG[1] Economics 101).
Otherwise - internal/foreign trade - the cost (gold amount, not counting beakers or arrows) could be higher than the returns

[Smash]

No not really.In that case,you should consider the long term effects of the trade route.

Fanatic=20 sheilds

[Scouse Gits]

Oops

[rah]

If you have a city that supplies uranium, it's always a good idea to rush it.
There are many others that work too, but that one's the most obvious. Anything my trade heavy capital demands is usually another no-brainer.

RAH
Come on AH, GP needs to get some post counts somewhere

[Messer Niccolò]

Originally posted by Smash
No not really.In that case,you should consider the long term effects of the trade route.

Fanatic=20 sheilds

Smash, since I have to look at the long terms of the trading ruote, saving 3/4 turns rushbuilding is worth the money?
(and again if looking beakers+arrows usually yes, otherwise? )

[Scouse Gits]

There is a further consideration - there are points in the game where rushing units is the only sensible thing to do with your massive bankroll

SG[1]

[LDiCesare]

Don't forget the fact that caravans bring SCIENCE, gold and arrows.
Thus if you rushbuy a caravan for say 50 gold and get a trade route of 50 gold, you actually turned 50 gold into beakers. That can be worth a lot in the early game. In particular, in OCC (or other SpaceShip victory) it is invaluable.

[rah]

I don't think anyone is ignoring the science part of this.

The issue is that if you're going to start rushing buying trade caravans for "trade" purposes only. You'd better use an incremental method that can be covered by the trade bonus so the effort is self sustaining, or you shouldn't be doing it exclusively. You sometimes have to pick your spot, to prime the pump. If you can stash away a couple of thousand from the first few, then you won't have to completely micromanage it. You'll have a little padding to make up for the ocassional loser.

[TCO]

Originally posted by rah

RAH
Come on AH, GP needs to get some post counts somewhere

I'd be up there if I hadn't banned myself so much. Now I have to slog away in the Gamer forums.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


Lol - YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE THE CD NOW

Well, I did some good with it. I gave it to my sister and she is hooked. And her husband stole it and plays all the time now.

I don't have it anymore. Cause I had an attack of honesty (and work) and wiped it off my drive.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Rushing caravans is always preferable to building or rushing wonders. It's rare I'm hard up for gold, even in the early game (love to demand tribute!). SG's "tickling" method is my preferred at that stage of the game - it saves gold and still doubles the build time.

Also, if you store up wonders for the one-turn construction, you can't get caught with your pants down. Somebody else finishes the wonder, you still have your pile of camels. They can either be saved for the next wonder or delivered, depending on what commodity they have.

[Smash]

Don't worry about the gold.The concern should be to get those extra arrows from routes.The sooner you get them set up,the more benefit you gain throughout the game especially when the tome come for government changes.100 invested in 2000BC can literally pay 1000s over the game.

[atawa]

Trade arrows are a nice bonus but the instant bulbs and gold could get you an edge when you're competing for wonders.

[geofelt]

In fundamentalism, you get lots of gold, at the expense of limiting science to 50%. It 's not so bad, because the ai seems to throttle back on it's science also. BUT I think beakers from caravans are not considered. Would it be a viable strategy to use that fundy gold to rush caravans for science? I have not played a game with that strategy. Perhaps by the time you get SOL you don't need it.

[Scouse Gits]

geofelt - yes it's viable - and I love it - don't forget that the fundy science penalty is 50% of a max of 50% hence a max of 25% - I turn Science off keep a couple of Eins and trade like hell

SG[1]